Too Easy?

[Veradrox]

How easy is this game? 

 

I played probably 10 hours maybe more of Pillars then came to this forum to join the discussion. Just to help out with questions and post some topics on the game as i have played many titles of these in the past. But the first thing i find on here is what..?  Others beating the game with ease, topics on solo builds, how to beat the bosses with one character.. Really?   I clicked on a link a week or so ago, that showed a rouge, 1 rogue, beating the final boss on the hardest difficulty, easily!  Just seeing that completely, without a doubt turned me off to playing this game for good.  

 

You guys couldn't think of better mechanics to keep people from spending a few hours on a boss fight to keep people from exploiting tactics in a game like this? One rogue and a summoned helper and thats all it takes to go though this game? If anything i should be reading about how hard this game is not how easy.  

[Valmy]

This game is really hard for most normal people. So somebody figured out a way to cheese through a fight. Meh so what.

 

And coming up with mechanics that somebody, someplace, in the world cannot find an exploit on requires years of work exposing your system to millions of people. Hardly easy.

[Luckmann]

This game is really hard for most normal people. So somebody figured out a way to cheese through a fight. Meh so what.

 

And coming up with mechanics that somebody, someplace, in the world cannot find an exploit on requires years of work exposing your system to millions of people. Hardly easy.

... What?

 

First of all, I sincerely believe that most people are idiots. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that people are actively getting dumber. But even so, I refuse to believe that Pillars of Eternity is "really hard" for most "normal people". Especially if we by "normal people" mean people that play actual games, because alright, I'll admit that my mother's farm hero saga-addled brain would probably find PoE pretty difficult.

 

And second, it's not "somebody" that "figured out a way to cheese through a fight". Most fights you don't even need to think about cheesing. Are we playing the same game? Because unless you're actually lobotomised, you can barge through the game like a drunk, never checking the combat log, never knowing what things really do, and just sorta wing it. On Hard.

 

The last line, that is a fair point, but it has nothing to do with PoE. It's not just somebody, someplace in the world, and it's not someone using exploits. The vast majority of PoE is banally easy and follows a rote formula. I enjoy the game in many ways, but let's not pretend that it's hard, or that you need to exploit anything at all to succeed, or that it's about cheesing, or that you even need to pay attention.

[Archaven]

Pillars is definitely not hard at all. I would have welcome things like Vampires in BG2 or the mages like Liches and timestop. No breach spell, you are dead. No protection spell? You are dead. Those are really hard counters. I kinda remember money was scarce and to buy the Breach scroll to scribe it was really satisfying.

But i do welcome that money are aplentiful this time around and you actually get to buy stuff.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Archaven

[demeisen]

How easy is this game?

 

I'm playing on Hard mode.  At its hardest - like some of the boss or even miniboss fights - it's a satisfying level of difficulty, IMHO.  For the majority of the game though, the general consensus is that it's a very easy game.  I agree with that: you can stomp through 95% of the encounters without using most of your abilities or needing to know how the game mechanics work.  Auto attack + invulnerable tanks = win.  Then every once in a while, you find a nice, fun, difficult fight.

 

So it's a mixed bag I'd say.  It's quite good at its best, but a lumpy sort of thing where a lot of the game you play for the story / atmosphere /etc, not the fights, because the fights pose no real risk or challenge.  And the atmosphere is really good in this game.  You want to play just to see what the next area will hold.

 

Highly recommended game, but for a variety of reasons beyond pure combat.

Edited April 17, 2015 by demeisen

[b0rsuk]

Last time I heard, 3% finished the game according to Steam stats. I can't confirm, I'm GOG only.

[Luckmann]

 

How easy is this game?

 

I'm playing on Hard mode.  At its hardest - like some of the boss or even miniboss fights - it's a satisfying level of difficulty, IMHO.  For the majority of the game though, the general consensus is that it's a very easy game.  I agree with that: you can stomp through 95% of the encounters without using most of your abilities or needing to know how the game mechanics work.  Auto attack + invulnerable tanks = win.  Then every once in a while, you find a nice, fun, difficult fight.

 

So it's a mixed bag I'd say.  It's quite good at its best, but a lumpy sort of thing where a lot of the game you play for the story / atmosphere /etc, not the fights, because the fights pose no real risk or challenge.  And the atmosphere is really good in this game.  You want to play just to see what the next area will hold.

 

Highly recommended game, but for a variety of reasons beyond pure combat.

 

 

The best fights are the ones that you actually royally screw up yourself.

 

 

On Caed Nua Lvl 2, I accidentally ran into a huge group of Xaurips and their drake pets, and two of them were shamans. Forgot to turn Scout Mode on or pay attention, and screwed up by immediately unpausing, running headlong into the battle with pretty much the entire group. Probably my best fight so far, I'm sad to say, and a lot of variables have to go wrong in order for that to happen.

 

 

Last time I heard, 3% finished the game according to Steam stats. I can't confirm, I'm GOG only.

Probably has nothing to do with the difficulty, though. Or if it does, it's more likely because it's too easy than to hard, and just makes you go meh towards the end.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Luckmann

[kaiki]

I find the difficulty varies with group composition. My cipher pc with grieving mother tore the encounters apart. But having my pc as a paladin dps made the game more of a challenge.

[Luckmann]

I find the difficulty varies with group composition. My cipher pc with grieving mother tore the encounters apart. But having my pc as a paladin dps made the game more of a challenge.

My first character was/is a Deathlike Bleak Walker Paladin focused in Perception and Resolve, with some Dexterity and Intellect, that one-hands a rapier, dressed in nothing but Clothes.

 

Ever considered using a fast one-handed weapon with low damage for Flames of Conviction? Don't. The only good part is that the Deathlike racial and the Bloody Slaughter Talent, with a fast weapon and high crit-rate (thanks to +12 Accuracy) means that I can get a lot of finishing blows. But it's totally not worth it by any stretch of the imagination, even with The Black Path (Frightens enemies when you get the killing blow).

 

And even so, it's not hard at all. :|

Edited April 17, 2015 by Luckmann

[Archaven]

I find the difficulty varies with group composition. My cipher pc with grieving mother tore the encounters apart. But having my pc as a paladin dps made the game more of a challenge.

 

My Cipher PC is good enough where i don't need 2 Ciphers. I ditched GM away for Pallegina. Loving her quite abit with her Revive ability and +6Accuracy. Apart from that, she's kinda meh as same category as Ranger.

[luzarius]

POTD and Trial of Iron is the best way to play this game.  I didn't come to this conclusion lightly.

[demeisen]

POTD and Trial of Iron is the best way to play this game.  I didn't come to this conclusion lightly.

 

I was thinking about going that route for my 2nd play-through, but I'm finding some of the boss fights just about right for me even on Hard.  With Trial of Iron in the mix, I'm not sure I want to go PoTD for the hardest handful of fights, although I would like that combo for the run of the mill fights, which otherwise can be rather boring.

 

But then, I'm playing a bit casual right now, so I dunno.  Maybe it'd work out.  Just could see getting 60+ hours into a PoTD + Trial of Iron run and wiping when something didn't go quite right

Edited April 17, 2015 by demeisen

[Azureblaze]

With the IE mod you can toggle between PoTD and Hard, useful.

[Tigranes]

How easy is this game? 

 

I played probably 10 hours maybe more of Pillars then came to this forum to join the discussion. Just to help out with questions and post some topics on the game as i have played many titles of these in the past. But the first thing i find on here is what..?  Others beating the game with ease, topics on solo builds, how to beat the bosses with one character.. Really?   I clicked on a link a week or so ago, that showed a rouge, 1 rogue, beating the final boss on the hardest difficulty, easily!  Just seeing that completely, without a doubt turned me off to playing this game for good.  

 

You guys couldn't think of better mechanics to keep people from spending a few hours on a boss fight to keep people from exploiting tactics in a game like this? One rogue and a summoned helper and thats all it takes to go though this game? If anything i should be reading about how hard this game is not how easy.  

 

Uh... so are you saying:

 

"I haven't played Pillars a huge amount, just a few hours, but there are people saying it's too easy. Now I'm going to criticise Obsidian, how could you make the game so easy?!"

 

[Guest BugsVendor]

Pillars is definitely not hard at all. I would have welcome things like Vampires in BG2 or the mages like Liches and timestop. No breach spell, you are dead. No protection spell? You are dead. Those are really hard counters. I kinda remember money was scarce and to buy the Breach scroll to scribe it was really satisfying.

But i do welcome that money are aplentiful this time around and you actually get to buy stuff.

 

I played thorough the game on PoD and apart from few moments like shades in Eotha's temple or paralysing, loud, ghostly ladies towards the end of the game I didn't encounter any other moments.

 

I like what your point about mages and liches from BG2.

 

I just think that pillars suffers from lack of really different opponents and more interesting encounters.

 

In some other topic someone pointed out how many different encounters you could get in ice wind dale and BG2.

Just a few examples:

 

- mages and liches required completely different approach than standard creatures.

- some enemies being very strong in a particular attack type, like poison that will kill you in a few seconds if you don't have antidote

- enemies not reachable by melee characters like archers on some podiums or behind obstacles.

- mini bosses having unique abilities

- terrain that makes a difference during the fight like slow walking on ice or reoccurring fire bursts. 

 

There are many more and despite PoE being not such a bad game I wonder why this aspect was simplified.

 

This has a lot to do with difficulty experienced because it requires you to change the tactics once in a while. It requires preparing different spells and changing weapons on companions. So every time when scenery changes you have to think all over again and load a few times before you win.

 

In PoE almost 99% of encounter is the same. So once you figure the game out more or less nothing really ever changes.

 

That's why it seems so easy.

[Prime-Mover]

How easy is this game? 

 

I played probably 10 hours maybe more of Pillars then came to this forum to join the discussion. Just to help out with questions and post some topics on the game as i have played many titles of these in the past. But the first thing i find on here is what..?  Others beating the game with ease, topics on solo builds, how to beat the bosses with one character.. Really?   I clicked on a link a week or so ago, that showed a rouge, 1 rogue, beating the final boss on the hardest difficulty, easily!  Just seeing that completely, without a doubt turned me off to playing this game for good.  

 

You guys couldn't think of better mechanics to keep people from spending a few hours on a boss fight to keep people from exploiting tactics in a game like this? One rogue and a summoned helper and thats all it takes to go though this game? If anything i should be reading about how hard this game is not how easy.  

 

First of all, remember that there are about 300.000 people playing this game at the moment. Further, note most of the active users on this forum, are part of the more passionate group of players. So the fact that you read that one person was able to beat the game with one character, is not really supprising, and wouldn't be supprising even if it was one of the most difficult games around. 

 

Beyond that, even though I'm a veteran of this type of game, I actually found the game fairly challenging and satisfying on hard difficulty on my first non-completionary playthrough. I remember many encounters where I had to reload, or try out new tactics. And every time I just put it on auto attack, the game would punish me, and my dudes would either die, or only one or two out of six would survive, putting pressure on my resourse management. This may be because I'm a lobotomized idiot, or it may be because I played the game more casually than most players in here. I didn't do a lot of work to figure out the deep technical aspect of the game mechanics, and had a more intuitive approach. Further, the game punishes the completionist severely in the sense that if you try to complete all quests, you become overpowered very quickly with regards to the main questline, due to the game encounters are balanced. I'm not going to elaborate this point, but if you decide to try the game, I recommend you kind of let the game/story take you by the hand, and complete it in it's own pace, instead of actively going around trying to find all the quests, all the items etc.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Prime-Mover

[Jojobobo]

What kind of parties do people run around on when they say it's "too easy"? I don't use custom adventurers, and so far that makes at least the initial bit of the game a reasonable difficulty on PotD (maybe not so much later when everyone has leveled up and you have ridiculous equipment). I think if you do things like hire a full party from the off, then it's a lot easier throughout.

[Luckmann]

What kind of parties do people run around on when they say it's "too easy"? I don't use custom adventurers, and so far that makes at least the initial bit of the game a reasonable difficulty on PotD (maybe not so much later when everyone has leveled up and you have ridiculous equipment). I think if you do things like hire a full party from the off, then it's a lot easier throughout.

For my first party, my ridiculously uselessly built Paladin, I only used a merc right at the beginning, to have someone capable of removing traps and finding secrets. This party is also based on the pre-1.03 companions, so they're worse, from a mechanical perspective.

 

For my second party, I've regrettably been forced to fill it up with mercs until I can get a full party of companions. I just picked up Kana Rua, so I only have one merc now. This game is post-1.03, but I intend to correct the Attributes again, because I prefer flavour-based Attributes for CNPC:s. Obsidian should've fixed the Attributes to begin with, not neuter the characters' substance.

 

But other than that, CNPC:s. I have no love for the merc system in the game at all, and I'll never hire more than I absolutely need.

 

Do note that I play on Hard, because PotD is just ridiculous bloat with inflated numbers. Few things are worse than a cheating AI. I really wish I could play the PotD encounters but without the artificial boosting.

[Tigranes]

The amount of mercs you "absolutely need" is zero. The moment you hire any, the game gets a lot easier. Difficulty feels pretty OK with 3-4 person parties, though obviously that does prove the game could be made harder.

 

And POTD isn't bloated at all in terms of feel. It's not really hard / boosted enough for you to ever feel "this stupid thing has a million HP" or "this stupid thing just kills you in one hit". 

 

That said, I do wish that Hard and POTD were harder, and harder through more genuine solutions like loading enemies with more devastating special abilities or making them use potions and items.

[NegativeEdge]

Either I'm going mad or PoTD is harder in 1.04. Eder is getting stunlocked by shadows on the way to Caed Nua, to the extent that he can'e even act at all, same with Xaurips in the Compass. I used to breeze these parts without even pausing the game with the same companions and equipment.

[bonarbill]

I found the game pretty challenging on normal. Mind you, I'm not a casual; I finished BG2 many times and I finished some of the most difficult games out there (Fzero GX, battletoads, etc.).  Perhaps I have a different definition of what's hard than some of the other people here.

[Luckmann]

I found the game pretty challenging on normal. Mind you, I'm not a casual; I finished BG2 many times and I finished some of the most difficult games out there (Fzero GX, battletoads, etc.).  Perhaps I have a different definition of what's hard than some of the other people here.

 

...Battletoads? Battletoads was hard because it was broken, not because it was, well, actually hard.

 

But if you've finished BG2 many times, I have no idea how you can say that PoE is pretty challenging on normal, especially not past Act 1.

[Daemonjax]

 Others beating the game with ease, topics on solo builds, how to beat the bosses with one character.. Really?   I clicked on a link a week or so ago, that showed a rouge, 1 rogue, beating the final boss on the hardest difficulty, easily!  Just seeing that completely, without a doubt turned me off to playing this game for good.  

 

There's videos on the internet for speedruns of some really good games, like:

 

Eye of the Beholder 1 (speedrun single character under 10 minutes)

Fallout 1 (speedrun single character under 10 minutes)

Fallout 2 (speedrun single character under 20 minutes)

Planescape Torment (speedrun single character under 21 minutes)

Baldur's Gate 1 (speedrun under 22 minutes)

Baldur's gate 2 (speedrun 71 minutes)

XCOM (2012) (speedrun under 93 minutes, on easy, but still)

 

I'm willing to concede these games are obviously not difficult, but... Are these games still fun and worth playing?

 

I'd say yes (with the possible exception of bg1), but maybe you'd disagree.

 

Should game developers hire one or two hardcore gamers to test their games?  Maybe.  It couldn't hurt. I'm sure it's a little embarrassing when people trivialize your game.  Doesn't make them un-fun to play, though.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Daemonjax

[Eos]

I found the game pretty well balanced and with good mechanics and battle design. Challenging on hard as well as one PotD. But as always, the individual experience differs greatly based on group composition, play style, difficulty, etc.

 

But not playing a game because someone on the internet was able to finish it with a single character is plain and simply retarded. How does it even affect your experience..

[Ormag]

It was too easy even on PotD-Ironman, but that's just me.