Scrotie's top 5 best min/max races

[scrotiemcb]

1. Moon Godlike. When in a tank role, this is the Godlike which lives up to the moniker. Silver Tide as an ability is roughly on par with Constant Recovery in terms of keeping Endurance up, and in a similar way allows you to go Might (+healing) to improve both tank survivability and damage, even if not Fighter. Racial so powerful it demands consideration for nontank roles. Nerf should be incoming.

 

2. Wood elf. Distant Advantage sounds like what it is, giving Accuracy to anything ranged, making this the go-to class for your squishy ranged DPS types. Racial ability works with spells, too.

 

I could almost end the list here.

 

3. Island Aumaua. The dark horse min/max pick for melee DPS types. The Might is nice, but the extra weapon slot is surprisingly excellent, allowing a slot for your firearm of choice to open things up, a quarterstaff or pike to beat on foes with from relative safety, and a shield and hatchet is things go south and you're engaged in melee somehow. Also allows up to three firearm volleys before reloading even once (four with a talent), which is a bit of a novelty but at least attempts to compete with Wood Elf for dedicated gunner. A little hampered by the underpoweredness of classes for which it shines.

 

4. Pale elf. 10 DR vs freeze and burn is no joke. Can be an interesting choice in parties where friendly fire spell damage is expected. However, with friendly fire AoE working as it currently does, burn DR is an unnecessary precaution. Could become a serious option in future if friendly AoE rules change.

 

5. Death godlike. There are paladin abilities which care about dealing the finishing blow. Death godlikes are good at dealing finishing blows. Dunno if it's worth doing, but it is best at something.

 

The honorable mention goes to the most overrated racial choice, the wild orlan. Unfortunately, everything these +3 Deflection tanky dudes can do, Moon Godlike can do better, which makes them a solid but always second-best choice. +3 Deflection simply isn't all that much, less than a talent, and you're looking for at least one talent worth of racial goodness in min-max picks. I'm hoping the Moonies see a bit of a nerf so these little dudes become a more valid min-max option (it wouldn't take much).

 

Your thoughts are welcome.

Edited April 12, 2015 by scrotiemcb

[Monte Carlo]

I'm not great at class-building like this, so I'm glad there are other people that are

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

I've got a gimped human barbarian with a two-handed sword. He sucks but I'm a bit surprised, seeing as apparently you couldn't make a bad character in this game...

[scrotiemcb]

I was expecting controversy. *shrug*

[cavemandiary]

Not really much to discuss, it´s pretty accurate. Fire godlike is better than death godlike, and deserves an honorable mention. Nature godlike is hilariously UP. Orlans and humans are decent for certain builds.

[Psychevore]

I like how none of these are classes

 

[Emptiness]

Your thoughts are welcome.

 

I think you said "classes" when you meant "races".

[scrotiemcb]

I like how none of these are classes

D'oh. Fixed.

 

I stand by Death > Fire. All of the "under 50% endurance" traits are pretty bad because if they trigger you're already in trouble. Fire is the clear winner in that category though. If it was a Top 7 list Fire might make it, but it's not.

[Shadow_Arms]

Following the top Guide made on steam

 

anything besides

 

-Hearth Orlan

-Death Godlike

-Moon Godlike

-Fire Godlike

 

sucks in general and it needs to be rebalanced(mainly humans and their sub genres)

[Gromnir]

hearth orlans is always our choice for melee rogues... and for most other characters as well.  moon godlike sounds nifty enough, but our experience in hm were that moon godlike didn't make much difference based on our play style.  combats were over too quick for the moonie's admitted very nice racial benefit to come into play... and they look like horribly failed concept art for the movie the abyss.  

 

...

 

oh, and "godlike" is a serious contender for all time worst name for a crpg race.  godlike?  make that suggestion in a meeting and you should be pelted with  half-filled cheeto bags and mostly empty slurpee cups... or whatever developers have on hand at such meetings.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 12, 2015 by Gromnir

[Shadow_Arms]

hearth orlans is always our choice for melee rogues... and for most other characters as well.  moon godlike sounds nifty enough, but our experience in hm were that moon godlike didn't make much difference based on our play style.  combats were over too quick for the moonie's admitted very nice racial benefit to come into play... and they look like horribly failed concept art for the movie the abyss.  

 

...

 

oh, and "godlike" is a serious contender for all time worst name for a crpg race.  godlike?  make that suggestion in a meeting and you should be pelted with  half-filled cheeto bags and mostly empty slurpee cups... or whatever developers have on hand at such meetings.

 

HA! Good Fun!

here's the guide

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844

[scrotiemcb]

I wouldn't suggest Moon for a melee rogue, either, unless it's some kind of tank rogue. I'd suggest island aumaua. I feel the extra weapon set is a huge deal for rogues in particular.

[Gromnir]

am disagreeing on melee rogues and weapon sets.  is very few situations where we gota switch to a third weapon set in combat with a melee character and given how fog o' war works, we invariably know what kinda foe we is facing before combat starts, so if a pike or estoc is a bad melee weapon choice before battling that forest lurker, we know in advance.  for a ranged gunner?  sure, but am gonna take the improved threat o' orlan's every single time for a melee rogue... and for a number o' other builds.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[scrotiemcb]

Converting 10% hits to crits isn't that great of an ability. Basically like changing the hit range from 50-100 to 50-95. It ends up feeling like 2.5% more damage as Raw type. That's the orlan offense, compared to a flat 7% (1.3/1.21) more damage for aumaua (but which doesn't necessarily bypass DR). Which isn't conditional on having a teammate attack with you. Even if we consider max benefit a tie, aumaua isn't conditional and wins.

 

+3 Deflection is the orlan defense. Versus the aumaua having a spare weapon slot to switch into a hatchet and shield, providing 17 to 29 Deflection. Aumaua wins decisively.

 

Rogues need guns in a weapon slot. Period. If not you're just throwing away a perfectly good "first 2 seconds" Sneak Attack. Even if Backstab, you lead with a gun. Reloading to fire a second shot is completely optional.

 

For Rogues, Hearth Orlan has no offensive advantage vs island aumaua, and a huge defensive liability.

Edited April 13, 2015 by scrotiemcb

[Gromnir]

Converting 10% hits to crits isn't that great of an ability. Basically like changing the hit range from 50-100 to 50-95. That's the orlan offense, compared to a flat x1.07 damage for aumaua. Which isn't conditional on having a teammate attack with you. Even if we consider max benefit a tie, aumaua isn't conditional and wins.

 

+3 Deflection is the orlan defense. Versus the aumaua having a spare weapon slot to switch into a hatchet and shield, providing 17 to 29 Deflection. Aumaua wins decisively.

 

Hearth Orlan has no offensive advantage vs island aumaua, and a huge defensive liability.

*chuckle*

 

an advantage we have no need for?  why on earth would we feel the need to switch to hatchet and shield? our striker/dps characters exist to inflict hurt-- do damage as fast as possible, and a hatchet and shield does not aid us at all in achieving that goal.  hell, particular with a rogue, Gromnir is actively attacking occupied or  partial/complete disabled foes.  need for a shield set is minimal.  islander adds a +0 to the equation based on our gameplay.  we take the orlan hands down with no reservations precisely 'cause it does aid in increasing damage output.  is it a huge leap in damage?  'course not, which is why it is balanced.

 

and it is silly to say that orlan racial ability offers no offensive advantage when you already conceded that it does offer an advantage, albeit a small one... which is what it is kinda the point.

 

for gunner builds with weapons that have long reload times, the extra weapon set is fantastic, but it provides us with little additional advantage on most characters.  

 

*shrug*

 

we do put hatchet and shields on most casters, but they also do not need a third weapon set.

 

the orlan has an actual offensive advantage and the islander weapon set gains us little save making our the job o' our support characters a bit easier?  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Ichthyic]

shouldn't it be +4 deflection for minmaxed defensive orlan?

+2 on both perception and resolve.

 

[Namutree]

I'm not great at class-building like this, so I'm glad there are other people that are

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

I've got a gimped human barbarian with a two-handed sword. He sucks but I'm a bit surprised, seeing as apparently you couldn't make a bad character in this game...

Maybe you're not using him properly. Tell me your attribute spread, equipment situation, level, and chosen talents. I can help you use him better.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Namutree

[scrotiemcb]

Anyone can pick those cultures, so it's +3 Deflection, not +4.

 

And my point was that the orlan has no RELATIVE offense advantage over island (or coastal) aumaua. The racial ability is worth AT MOST 3 Might. More likely 2. And aumaua have 3 more Might than orlans. This means the orlan is at best tied with aumaua offensively. With no way to break the offensive stalemate, defense becomes the tiebreaker.

 

In other words, the two races have near-identical DPS, but orlan Rogues get murdered by Shadows and island aumaua Rogues don't.

Edited April 13, 2015 by scrotiemcb

[Gromnir]

Anyone can pick those cultures, so it's +3 Deflection, not +4.

 

And my point was that the orlan has no RELATIVE offense advantage over island (or coastal) aumaua. The racial ability is worth AT MOST 3 Might. More likely 2. And aumaua have 3 more Might than orlans. This means the orlan is at best tied with aumaua offensively. With no way to break the offensive stalemate, defense becomes the tiebreaker.

 

In other words, the two races have near-identical DPS, but orlan Rogues get murdered by Shadows and island aumaua Rogues don't.

is better dps.  and the ooh mau mau is doing far less dps with a shield and hatchet in hands, eh?  get murdered by, y'know, not dpsing with a hatchet and shield in hands?  seems a foolish tactic to us.

 

you like the safety o' the shield.  we tend to think that the you is doing something wrong if you need the shield.  is nice that poe can make us both happy in different ways.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

clear win for orlan.  

[Hebruixe]

Wild orlan tanks. They get a bonus to all defenses every time they roll a will check. Not bad.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Hebruixe

[Gromnir]

Wild orlan tanks. They get a bonus to all defenses every time they roll a will check. Not bad.

is our first choice for most tank builds.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Ruminate]

The Hearth Orlan converts hits to crits 10% of the time.

If accuracy = enemy deflect, you only "hit" 50% of the time.

On average, the racial gives you 5% more crits.

Base crit damage is an additive +50% bonus damage.

On average, the racial gives you +2.5% more damage.

 

....the racial isn't even worth 1 might.

 

Its only useful if you're min-maxing weapons with on-crit abilities.

Its not useful for min-maxing damage, especially since the orlan takes a -2 penalty to might.

[Gromnir]

The Hearth Orlan converts hits to crits 10% of the time.

If accuracy = enemy deflect, you only "hit" 50% of the time.

On average, the racial gives you 5% more crits.

Base crit damage is an additive +50% bonus damage.

On average, the racial gives you +2.5% more damage.

 

....the racial isn't even worth 1 might.

 

Its only useful if you're min-maxing weapons with on-crit abilities.

Its not useful for min-maxing damage, especially since the orlan takes a -2 penalty to might.

you do not take a -2 penalty to might.  you have a -2 towards potential max might.  is no point buy or similar such stuff. we got same pool o' points as every other race, which makes most o' the attribute penalties and bonuses a bit illusory.  our ourlan melee combatants can starts with an 18 might.

 

and yes, a bonus that is close to the dps gain from 1 point o' might, which is indeed meaningful for a racial bonus, particularly with certain weapon choices, is a better choice for us than being able to equip a hatchet and shield along with our casters... and then doing negligible dps.

 

thanks.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 13, 2015 by Gromnir

[Serdan]

Converting 10% hits to crits isn't that great of an ability.

It all adds up.

 

With Dirty Fighting and Vicious Fighting you can increase it to +30%

With Bloody Slaughter it's +50% against low endurance enemies. (whatever low endurance means)

 

Crit dam is a x1.5 multiplier (x2 with Bloody Slaughter)

Improved Sneak Attack is another x2 multiplier.

Backstab is yet another x2 multiplier.

 

..

And now I have to make an orlan crit rogue.

[Ruminate]

 

The Hearth Orlan converts hits to crits 10% of the time.

If accuracy = enemy deflect, you only "hit" 50% of the time.

On average, the racial gives you 5% more crits.

Base crit damage is an additive +50% bonus damage.

On average, the racial gives you +2.5% more damage.

 

....the racial isn't even worth 1 might.

 

Its only useful if you're min-maxing weapons with on-crit abilities.

Its not useful for min-maxing damage, especially since the orlan takes a -2 penalty to might.

you do not take a -2 penalty to might.  you have a -2 towards potential max might.  is no point buy or similar such stuff. we got same pool o' points as every other race, which makes most o' the attribute penalties and bonuses a bit illusory.  our ourlan melee combatants can starts with an 18 might.

 

and yes, a bonus that is close to the dps gain from 1 point o' might, which is indeed meaningful for a racial bonus, particularly with certain weapon choices. 

 

thanks.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

If your orlan starts with 18 might, then your max dex is 18. You have 2 points leftover to spend on support or survivability.

A human can start with 20 might and 18 dex. That alone is worth more damage than 18 might/18 dex/10% hits to crits.

[scrotiemcb]

The shield & hatchet is for defensive situations only. Pike the vast majority of the time (not quarterstaff because pike is in same focus group as good guns).

 

As I said earlier, orlan tanks have nothing on moon tanks. Nothing.

 

Ruminate gets it.

Edited April 13, 2015 by scrotiemcb