Random loot generation

[WebShaman]

He is obviously trolling (you can see this in the hyperbole used like "awesome! Thanks Obs!" Which is solely designed to get a rise).

 

Don't feed the Troll.

[Manart]

Awww... But I wanna pet 'im.

[Hassat Hunter]

Hmmm, pretty easy to get qualified a troll here I see... all I need is a different opinion!

Gets really easy if that's the premises to declare a troll.

 

And no, I was not aware named unique items had such a failsave system. Personally I don't see why that would need to be included either, but that's just me...

[keysersoze]

This partial randomized loot is a bad design. 

 

Fully randomized is good (Diablo), non randomized is good (BG2), but this mix is crap for a game were you cannot retry dungeons normally.

 

First time you play through all the loot is randomized (Unless you are using external help)

Second+ times you play through, you should be able to plan your build based on previous experience. 

 

If you don't want to use "X", because it's OP or whatever, don't use it.

 

But don't stop other people who want to use "X", and only find out 30 hours in that "X" was randomized, that they were lucky on there previous play through, and that they have to restart if they really want "X"

[knownastherat]

First of all, there is no truth to be found and whether RNG loot or not is matter of opinion.  Period

 

Secondly, the claim that RNG loot has this or that influence on replay-ability needs evidence. As far as I know there is none. Not here, not at Obsidian, not anywhere. If there is any lets see it. Though I cant imagine how it could be tested.  How the idea came about I do not even want to speculate.

 

Lastly, my opinion is that RNG loot (generally) sucks and I prefer to know locations of items I want to customize my character with as it adds to replay-ability for me. I plan my characters, parties, and replays around it.

 

Just imagine you had RNG as reward for your work. That's bull**** eh?  

[Blovski]

Mechanics gloves are a real problem, but I think that might be a problem with the gloves being stupidly useful for any party ever rather than the loot system.

[Luckmann]

Mechanics gloves are a real problem, but I think that might be a problem with the gloves being stupidly useful for any party ever rather than the loot system.

 

This, coupled with the fact that so much other random loot is utterly useless. If I find another Ring of Minor Protection, Cloak of Minor Protection, or Ring of Deflection, I think I'm going to punch a baby.

[sparklecat]

Honestly, if they just put the mechanics gloves in some shop at a high price, I think I'd be mostly happy.  That said, I'm not going to be thrilled if PoE2 actually has more interesting items and they're distributed randomly/sometimes not at all.

[Zwiebelchen]

In other news; gamers got bored of knowing all loot in the BG's by heard, devs try to prevent that for PoE; gamers massively complain.

 

This. I found the random loot to be highly satisfying. I think Obsidian found the sweet spot here between static loot tables and random selection of a fixed list.

 

I just wished there was more of it. And that the items would be more powerful. The gloves are nice, make no mistake, but that's about the only worthwhile items that really have a huge impact on your character.

 

 

I'd love to see more powerful unique items in the game. Especially weapons... currently, a unique weapon is not really more powerful than an ordinary enchanted weapon, except for 1-2 extra enchants that you can not place on them manually (which also sometimes block manual enchants, which makes them even weaker in comparison).

 

Also, they should add more item slots to the game. At least divide the necklace and cloak slots into two. I'd also love to see a tabard slot or something like that. Basicly a vanity-only item slot that can be worn over your traditional armor.

 

And an option to turn helmets off. Seriously, helmets look awful in this game.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[LeonKowalski]

In other news; gamers got bored of knowing all loot in the BG's by heard, devs try to prevent that for PoE; gamers massively complain.

 

Link me to a post saying so not related to a discussion about random loot in some other game ...

[Nakia]

I like random selection.  This play through I found a diamond where I hadn't before.   I like surprises otherwise I get bored.  

[Crucis]

I like random selection.  This play through I found a diamond where I hadn't before.   I like surprises otherwise I get bored.  

 

I don't mind random loot generation for anything except unique items.  I find it really annoying that I've played PoE from start to finish 3 times and not once have I gotten the Gloves of Manipulation, nor have I gotten a chance to buy most of the things that Azurro sells when he visits my SH. 

 

 

In fact, I really dislike Azurro for a number of reasons.

 

1. His visits are too short.  You can decide to travel from point A to B on a trip that will take over 25 hours and miss Azurro because he only stays 25 hours.  Yes, some will say that you can just reload a save from just before your trip, but to me this is just covering a case of mildly bad design.  Azurro should stay at the SH for at least 2, maybe 3 days, just so that you won't miss him.

 

2. What he sells comes from a random list.  The problem here is that when the game selects the next item to sell, it should NOT be allowed to sell any item that you've already purchased from Azurro.  And frankly, I wish that it wouldn't offer up any item that you chose not to buy as well.  Repeats are annoying.

 

3. Honestly, I just don't like this entirely visiting merchant selling a single random item model.  I can think of a few ways that it could be fixed.

 

A. Have Azurro be like a normal merchant with his full array of items, but keep the visits though increase his layover time to 2-3 days, so that you don't miss him while in transit between places.

 

B. Similar to "A", except have him stay on permanently.

 

C. Have him show up as he currently does, but as long as you've repaired the weapons merchant store in your SH, the item that Azurro has to sell gets added to that merchant's stock after his visit.  (Probably a bit too complex, but hey, it's an idea.)

 

Personally, I like either A or B, because I don't like the randomness (which never seems all that random at all) of Azurro's choices.  I have yet to see that nice armor (Rebel's Call, IIRC?) or shield he has n his random list.  I've only seen Wurmwull armor, the pretty good morning star, and the overpriced set of gloves, in 3 full run throughs.  Very annoying.

[SlayerDorian]

Does anyone else think this is absolutely awesome?

 

Instead of rushing to all the items you know after 1 playthrough (BG2 anyone?) here you still can be surprised, find new stuff and suddenly need to change your tactics if the good item you're wishing for isn't there.

 

It's absolutely great!

 

Definitely agree.  Things like this add replay value.

[Crucis]

 

In other news; gamers got bored of knowing all loot in the BG's by heard, devs try to prevent that for PoE; gamers massively complain.

 

This. I found the random loot to be highly satisfying. I think Obsidian found the sweet spot here between static loot tables and random selection of a fixed list.

 

I just wished there was more of it. And that the items would be more powerful. The gloves are nice, make no mistake, but that's about the only worthwhile items that really have a huge impact on your character.

 

 

I'd love to see more powerful unique items in the game. Especially weapons... currently, a unique weapon is not really more powerful than an ordinary enchanted weapon, except for 1-2 extra enchants that you can not place on them manually (which also sometimes block manual enchants, which makes them even weaker in comparison).

 

Also, they should add more item slots to the game. At least divide the necklace and cloak slots into two. I'd also love to see a tabard slot or something like that. Basicly a vanity-only item slot that can be worn over your traditional armor.

 

And an option to turn helmets off. Seriously, helmets look awful in this game.

 

 

Zw, I think that most of the "problem" is that of on-screen real estate.  There's only so much room on the screen and around the character's paper doll for the little boxes where you put items into.  That said, that friggin' useless pet (not AC) box should go (but I bet it won't because it was probably added because it may be a supporter requested thing).

 

I'd like to see shields removed from the weapon sets.  It always annoyed me that you had to have multiple shields.  Put your shield in a slot where that pet slot is.  And then, if a one handed weapon in equipped in the left box of a a weapon pair, it's assumed to be weapon and shield.  If a two handed weapon is in the left box of a weapon pair and equipped, the shield is disabled.  If a weapon is placed in the right box of the weapon pair, it's in the off hand and the shield is again disabled for that weapon pair.  But this way, you only need one shield, even if you have sword in weapon pair one, and a club in weapon pair two.

 

 

As for unique weapons.  There definitely need to be more unique weapons, if only to fill out a number of weapon types that DESPERATELY need unique weapons.  IMO, there should be at least 3 unique weapons per type.

 

As for random loot, I don't really like seeing particularly powerful items like the Gloves of Manipulation that I desperately want to get hidden in random loot tables.  I'd rather random loot be for fairly generic stuff.  Frankly, the Gloves of Manipulation should be removed from the random loot table and moved into the House Doemenel merchant's inventory.

 

One thing that bothers me a little about the hats in the game is that they don't get put over the character's hair.  It removes the character's hair.  I mean, if I'm playing a female character with nice longish hair, putting on a hat shouldn't cause all that hair to disappear, but it does. 

 

Another thing that gets me about helmets is that there's a pretty wide variety of normal helmet styles but darned few of the more interesting ones have an interestingly enchanted equivalent.  Like the winged helm or the "frog"? helm that looks so perfect as a match for plate armor.

 

Also, (and I could be wrong about this) there don't seem to be all that many really, really good boots.  The Boots of Speed are very good (though at times I wish that I could turn them off, like a modal ability).  The Shod-In-Faith boots are very good.  There might be some others.  After that, the remainder are not memorable (hence my apparent inability to remember any other very good ones, I suppose).  I won't say that they're not useful.  Hey, I'll use whatever I can get, but there's a difference between "use what I can get" and "being really so good that they're memorable".

 

As for separate slots for necklaces and cloaks, it'd be great but is there enough screen real estate?  Ditto for a tabard.  And for what it's worth, if a cloak can be enchanted, I see no reason why a tabard couldn't be.  (Also, having a "vanity" un-enchantable item like a tabard would seem to put it in the same class as having a slot for a pet.)

[abaris]

 

 

 

But don't stop other people who want to use "X", and only find out 30 hours in that "X" was randomized, that they were lucky on there previous play through, and that they have to restart if they really want "X"

 

Well, tough is all I can say to that.

 

In about ten started games I found the mechanics gloves once. A couple of hours ago.

 

Planning a character based on what's in the game is usually a bad idea. I for one am curious of what I might find, though I admit that I can't see boots of speed or rings of minor deflection anymore.

 

Random loot is fine by me. It would be nice if there was a little more variety though. It's often as if the game decides it's boots of speed day or boots of sturdyness season. And most of all, the reward should fit the location. If there's a stew tugged away in a secret spot, I feel kind of led on.

Edited June 3, 2015 by abaris

[Nakia]

I agree with  abaris.  Especially about the secret spots I always feel a bit let down when I find fruit or  a useless helm instead of something I can use or at least sell for a decent amount.  Boots seem oddly lacking in the game to me.  I find robes of minor protection or amulets but usually only at most two boots.  Robes and amulets take the same equip slot so I have to decide which to use and which to sell.  There are a few more gloves but with the suppressed design sometimes it takes me a while to see if a party member can use them to advantage.

 

Those gloves of manipulation are really useful but I have found them only once after quite a few start games.  Boots os speed always give me a chuckle because they remind me of the Blinding boots of speed in Morrowind. 

[Crucis]

Boots of speed are interesting at times.  Most of the time I've had them, I put them on my most dangerous offensive melee character.  However, when it's time for the final battle, I move however many Boots of Speed I have over to my squishy characters so that they can (ahem) move to a safer location ASAP away from those 2 nasty statues, while I have my tanks engage them.