Random loot generation

[dukefx]

I'm having a hard time understanding the logic behind this. I'm not against random loot, but if there is a specific item with a unique property even if it's not called Obsidian Entertainment's unique gloves there should be a failsafe. A good example is Blunting Belt: 1st playthrough: found 2, 2nd playthrough: found none, but... it's available from the blacksmith in Guilded Vale. So, if I'm unlucky I can still buy it. There are a few items however I either never found (maybe my super-thoroughness wasn't enough) or didn't find in another playthrough.

 

A few items that I recall:

 

Archer's Gloves: Found 0. That's the only item with x1.2 ranged damage (not to mention it's bugged - you have to reequip it after loading or else it won't work)

 

Bracers of Spiritual Power: According to Josh this one is tied with Gauntlets of Ogre Might. This is extremely irritating. A unique property (x1.2 spell damage) that is only found on those gloves vs some gauntlets that provide +2 Might. I could build a dam on the Amazonas with the amount of items that have +Might. Found 1 in 2 playthroughs.

 

Gauntlets of Puissant Melee: Found 0. Only item with x1.2 melee damage

 

Mantle of Wreathing Flame: No idea what it does, but I'm sure I haven't found it on my 1st playthrough and I doubt there is any other item with the same property.

 

Stalker's Torc: I'm not sure if this is random (shouldn't be) or not (maybe I'm just too stupid to find this), but I've found every single class specific item for every class (all sold by merchants) except this. 2 playthroughs... still none.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of other items that are randomly generated with properties that have no alternative. Does anyone else feel like this is BS?

 

[Katarack21]

According to a developer statement, items are not randomly generated but are occasionally chosen from a list of possible items.

[dukefx]

Exactly! A specific container may contain item A or item B which makes it random.

[Katarack21]

But not randomly generated, rather it is randomly selected. Small difference, but very important.

[Hassat Hunter]

Does anyone else think this is absolutely awesome?

Instead of rushing to all the items you know after 1 playthrough (BG2 anyone?) here you still can be surprised, find new stuff and suddenly need to change your tactics if the good item you're wishing for isn't there.

 

It's absolutely great!

[dukefx]

I never rush for anything. I didn't do in BG2, nor in PoE. The point is that some non-unique items with unique properties may never be found in a playthrough.

[KingNee]

I never rush for anything. I didn't do in BG2, nor in PoE. The point is that some non-unique items with unique properties may never be found in a playthrough.

 

I don't get how that is so bad? You're not supposed to go hunting for named items, you're not even supposed to know they even exist, right? Only reason you know is not in the game, it's because you're replaying or you looked it up somewhere. 

[falchen]

I think it's bad, on my first playthough I found gauntles of manipulation (+2 mechanics) as well as a ranger cloak that boosts stalker's bond twice. Second playthrough, still didn't run across either.

 

Just cheated and consoled them into my inventory but I shouldn't have had to do that in my opinion, if these items don't drop every game at least make them buyable somewhere.

[Hassat Hunter]

Or just to learn with the difficulty with no, you cannot build your character specifically with itemry in mind (as many BG2 guides do), roll with the punches.

 

Adding difficulty, variety and personal challenge that's cheapened if they just made it available none-the-less... :/

[Exyll]

But not randomly generated, rather it is randomly selected. Small difference, but very important.

lol, yes randomly selected from a set pool of items

randomly selected is random, regardless how large the  pool is.

 

On the items, its nice in that the choices arent static but on the other hand, you want to know where to go for known items too.

One play through I found a fine war bow in the swamp meadows by dead campers, next play through I found fine hunter bow.

First playthrough I didnt even know there were gloves that had mechanic and +1 dex, next playthrough I found two.

The one of a kind/named armors and weapons, those can always be found in the same place, but the good magical items that arent unique appear or dont on a per playthrough basis it seems

Edited April 8, 2015 by Exyll

[falchen]

They could spread the items out randomly but guarantee that each will drop somewhere. Like if a location has a chance to drop gloves of manipulation or boots of stealth, if one of those drops the second such location will have the other.

Edited April 8, 2015 by falchen

[dukefx]

They could spread the items out randomly but guarantee that each will drop somewhere. Like if a location has a chance to drop gloves of manipulation or boots of stealth, if one of those drops the second such location will have the other.

 

^ This would be OK. Having merchants sell such stuff would also be OK, you just have to spend coin and be satisfied with only one of said item being available. Putting the only bracers that grant x1.2 spell damage (taking this example for now) in a container that may or may not spawn is absolutely not OK, because there is no alternative. There are 3 unique items that grant +3 Might, an amulet, a ring and belt (guaranteed to be found), yet there is only 1 bracer with x1.2 spell damage which one may or may not get. On top of that a spell damage multiplier is something I'd consider unique, while a simple +stat shouldn't be on a named, unique item by itself imo.

 

 

Or just to learn with the difficulty with no, you cannot build your character specifically with itemry in mind (as many BG2 guides do), roll with the punches.

 

Adding difficulty, variety and personal challenge that's cheapened if they just made it available none-the-less... :/

 

I'm making use of whatever is available one way or the other, but I'd prefer to work my way to whatever I need rather than use additem whatever 1. It kinda spoils the fun, but not getting stuff you want is no fun at all. This is how I feel rewarded for my efforts. On top of that it totally spoils replayability. I mean... why should I even bother if I don't end up with the character I want just because the number I got when I pressed New Game wasn't in my favor. There are power gamers, there are carebears, and there is me. I want my character to end up just like I planned. I may even choose items based on aesthetics and it's really disappointing if it's not available *this time*.

[qqwertyasdf]

i agree with this thread. Only easy fix I can see is add all those  rng items as fixed items in shops.

[Exyll]

Completed a 3rd run last night, while I like a little randomization now and then - you kind of also want to know where to go for choice weapons for a toon you're building.

For example, I've found all of those gloves in the OP and I've found none of them in the next run and in another run I found 4 boots of speed, and/or nothing else class related in terms of weapons, gear.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Exyll

[gkathellar]

Does anyone else think this is absolutely awesome?

 

Instead of rushing to all the items you know after 1 playthrough (BG2 anyone?) here you still can be surprised, find new stuff and suddenly need to change your tactics if the good item you're wishing for isn't there.

 

It's absolutely great!

 

Oh yeah, it's absolutely great how it encourages soft resetting and rest spamming, and increases the frustration curve of replaying the game.

 

 

I never rush for anything. I didn't do in BG2, nor in PoE. The point is that some non-unique items with unique properties may never be found in a playthrough.

 

I don't get how that is so bad? You're not supposed to go hunting for named items, you're not even supposed to know they even exist, right? Only reason you know is not in the game, it's because you're replaying or you looked it up somewhere. 

 

If this were even close to true, then (a) all item locations would be randomized, and (b) there still wouldn't be a reason to have certain items exist in one playthrough and be totally absent in another. PoE could easily use a sorting algorithm to ensure that all items showed up one of several logical locations - including as items that opponents use.

[Hassat Hunter]

I don't see how all items *HAVE* to appear in a single-game.

 

Obviously you and Obsidian (and me) disagree that's not required at all, and adds re-play. Why would there even be some RNG loot if it was made sure you got everything anyway. Might aswell say 'screw it, let's make it fixed' then since the end result is the same, and nothing is gained by adding the randomess except wasted developer-time...

[gkathellar]

I don't see how all items *HAVE* to appear in a single-game.

 

Obviously you and Obsidian (and me) disagree that's not required at all, and adds re-play. Why would there even be some RNG loot if it was made sure you got everything anyway. Might aswell say 'screw it, let's make it fixed' then since the end result is the same, and nothing is gained by adding the randomess except wasted developer-time...

 

If "oh hey, instead of the cool loot I found last game I found a stick," is your idea of replay value, then ... I don't even know how to address that.

[Hassat Hunter]

And in that game where you found a stick first you now got cool loot.

 

Yeah, don't see the problem...

[gkathellar]

Except that there's no guarantee of such. It's random. There's no parity. It's like rolling for stats, except worse, because rolling an 18 instead of a 17 is whatever, while rolling a Bracers of Spiritual Power means "oh hello best item in the game."

[Hassat Hunter]

Then there's also no guarantee that your "awesome loot spot" will be not awesome next game.

Except for some reason you take that as granted, but count the opposite of 'can't happen'

 

Again; you seem to make problems that aren't there?

[dukefx]

You, Sir, deserve a special edition where everything is randomly generated. That includes level cap (1-12), ability/talent point per level (0-1) and every creature could spawn anywhere, including the adra dragon at Cilant Lis. I imagine the possibilities and replayability would be endless and it would be "totally awesome".

 

On a more serious note I support sorting. It's a good compromise.

[Hassat Hunter]

In other news; gamers got bored of knowing all loot in the BG's by heard, devs try to prevent that for PoE; gamers massively complain.

[sparklecat]

I didn't find knowing where everything was in those games boring.  I found it useful, and planning out going after certain key items, or raising the money for them, part of the fun.

[Manart]

Well, soloers already beeline for the Sanguine Plate asap so if the loots are static, I would imagine they would have a much easier time getting things like the Gloves of Manipulation and Ring of Protection. It depends on your preference I guess.

[dukefx]

Hold on! All named items are fixed. There are even fail saves. You didn't find the Disappointer at the beginning? No problem, you'll find it in Od Nua later. Didn't kill Raedric? No problem, just get the GS from the blacksmith in Dyrford Village. How is this random? How will this increase replayability? How is this any different from BGs? No complaints about this? Yet, when I ask for minor items to be always available then suddenly I'm the devil himself. I'm not even asking for them to be in fixed locations. Hypocrisy at its finest!