Why people say constitution is useless ?

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

Hi there.

 

I made a test to understand what did you meant.

 

 

So i created a savage orlan fighter to tank.

 

Basically he was :

 

10 MIG

3 CON

18 DEX

7 INT

20 PER

19 RES

 

(hope the names of the stat are good, i got the game in french)

 

 

OK so my orlan started at like 54 endurance pfiouuu what a **** tank.

 

Then i faced alone the 2 bandits at the beggining, 2 handed, without armor. And i got my ass kicked !!!

 

So what's the point minimizing constitution ???

[Kenji]

Depends on what difficulty you're playing on and what roles you want for your characters, constitution can be either important or useless.

 

For my Path of the Damned run frontline tanks, I have his stats at:

 

The White that Wends Human (Hearth Orlans are still the best option I believe)

4 Might (Min)

15 Cons (Average)

3 Dex (Min)

19 Per (Max)

18 Int (Max)

19 Res (Max)

 

Although for everyone else except my DPS Fighter I have either minimal constitution or below average constitution.

 

Here are the three screenshots that will probably tell the story better than my descriptions:

 

Tank Fighter

 

 

 

 

 

DPS Fighter

 

 

 

 

 

DPS Mage

 

 

 

 

 

Note that the tank fighter have deflected more attacks than the DPS one, though the statistics is not available for dodges (Still lobbying for it)

[Evange]

You need a reasonable amount of endurance so that when a hit goes through your defenses you can survive the hit...

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

You need a reasonable amount of endurance so that when a hit goes through your defenses you can survive the hit...

 

I know but i see here people who minimize that stat (so it goes down to 3 or less)

[falchen]

Since the bonus constitution gives is a percentage from your base ammount classes who already have low con/end will loose little, on the other hand classes who already have high con/end don't really need a boost. Taking it to 3 might be too much but 8-9 is definitely manageable.

[KDubya]

You should have dropped int to 3, and put the points into might or con.

 

With each level you gain the effect of a low con becomes less and less, especially with a fighter that gets a lot per level up. At low levels it is more of an issue.

 

Also what was the point of not wearing armor?

 

 

On a side note I wonder if that build with a morning star and the talent for increased interrupts could perma lockdown a single target with repeated stronger (1 sec) interrupts?

[Kenji]

ProjectBG2Respawn, on 07 Apr 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

 

Evange, on 07 Apr 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

You need a reasonable amount of endurance so that when a hit goes through your defenses you can survive the hit...

 

I know but i see here people who minimize that stat (so it goes down to 3 or less)

 

Mostly for the backline characters where they are specialized in doing damage rather than taking damage.. I believe this guide will give you much more insights:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844

[sim-h]

At Might 4 you shouldn't be able to wear heavy armour or lift a decent weapon. Tsk. I hope they add that sort of mechanism.

 

This whole Might being both physical and mental strength and Intel being AoE on everything is also pretty horrible imo. How do you play a dumb Barbarian who cleaves everything in sight?

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

@Kenji

 

Yep sorry i didn't say i was on normal mode (not expert).

 

 

Thank you for your help and share your tacticals builds.

 

If someone that low CON come here, i'd like to know how does he play then. On this forum i always see "CON is a useless stat" "low your CON" etc etc...

[draek]

This isn't your average rpg where dodging hits are rare. 

In PoE - dodging ( deflections ) are a lot more common than anywhere else.

With that said when your character does get hit - you want them to be able to survive it.

 

So the amount you put on your constitution is heavily based on how far the character is away from combat. 

The further away they are from the frontline - the less it needs. 

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

"Also what was the point of not wearing armor?"

 

For fast recovery time. And also i though like you that 2 weapons with 18 DEX and no recovery time malus could interrupt a lot the enemies : it was a wrong move.

 

 

* So if a fighter gains much endurance and vitality each level, it shouldn't be good to maximize CON ?

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

This isn't your average rpg where dodging hits are rare. 

In PoE - dodging ( deflections ) are a lot more common than anywhere else.

With that said when your character does get hit - you want them to be able to survive it.

 

So the amount you put on your constitution is heavily based on how far the character is away from combat. 

The further away they are from the frontline - the less it needs. 

 

I agree with you, i said it was a test, i just wanted to know how people who say "CON is useless" are playing.

[Nokturnal Lex]

Min-max is pretty simple to understand.

 

Want a dps character? Minimize stats that don't boost damage, maximize stats that do.  (Might & Dex obviously and INT and/or Perception depending on class)

 

Want a tank character? Get rid of dps stats, maximize tank stats. (Resolve, Perception, Dex, Int and Constitution depending on class again. No might needed)

 

Want a melee dps character? Don't bother, sadly the way the game is designed, tanks can't taunt, melee dps will get focused, so they'll need to be able to survive, but by increasing their survival you nerf the hell out of their dps. For example wearing heavy armor will allow your melee dps to not instantly die, but they'll also be doing worse dps than if they were just ranged DPS instead because heavy armor will slow down their recovery too much.

 

It can be done, if you play carefully and CC the hell out of the enemy so your melee dps can do tons of damage without taking damage, but it's a lot easier to just make only ranged DPS characters and not have to worry about your melee dps characters instantly dying as soon as the fight starts. You can still utilize warrior and Paladin abilities even if they do 0 damage with them lol. As tanks their job is to just crowd control the enemy and distract them while the ranged DPS rip people to shreds.

 

 

----

Edited April 7, 2015 by Nokturnal Lex

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

At Might 4 you shouldn't be able to wear heavy armour or lift a decent weapon. Tsk. I hope they add that sort of mechanism.

 

This whole Might being both physical and mental strength and Intel being AoE on everything is also pretty horrible imo. How do you play a dumb Barbarian who cleaves everything in sight?

 

Yeah i agree, "might" is a wrong move from Obsidian. But that's not the topic.

[Zwiebelchen]

Min/Maxing in this game is overrated. Due to the reverse difficulty curve of the game (game starts out incredibly hard, then gets progressively easier as you reach higher levels), you can do just fine in PotD with non-min/maxed chars. I tried it.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

 

ProjectBG2Respawn, on 07 Apr 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

 

Evange, on 07 Apr 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

You need a reasonable amount of endurance so that when a hit goes through your defenses you can survive the hit...

 

I know but i see here people who minimize that stat (so it goes down to 3 or less)

 

Mostly for the backline characters where they are specialized in doing damage rather than taking damage.. I believe this guide will give you much more insights:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844

 

 

Thanks i'll check it

[Kenji]

ProjectBG2Respawn, on 07 Apr 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

"Also what was the point of not wearing armor?"

 

For fast recovery time. And also i though like you that 2 weapons with 18 DEX and no recovery time malus could interrupt a lot the enemies : it was a wrong move.

 

 

* So if a fighter gains much endurance and vitality each level, it shouldn't be good to maximize CON ?

I have actually tried that on my earlier PotD runs with a Rautai Dwarf, maxed 21 Con, at the expense of some perception. As others have pointed out, since constitution is percentage based, my old tank took more hits and gained only so little extra endurance/health that maxed perception/resolve still outweighs constitution with the current stats.

 

I really hope they'd put minimal might restriction on armors and increase constitution % per point to discourage min/max'ing.

[Mungri]

It depends on the role of the character. However my backline squishy wizard and priest still have 16 con. Why? Because perception and resolve are meaningless to them. 20 might / 16 con / 17 dex / 3 per / 19 int / 3 res. Helps them not get 1 shotted all the time.

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

 

ProjectBG2Respawn, on 07 Apr 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

"Also what was the point of not wearing armor?"

 

For fast recovery time. And also i though like you that 2 weapons with 18 DEX and no recovery time malus could interrupt a lot the enemies : it was a wrong move.

 

 

* So if a fighter gains much endurance and vitality each level, it shouldn't be good to maximize CON ?

I have actually tried that on my earlier PotD runs with a Rautai Dwarf, maxed 21 Con, at the expense of some perception. As others have pointed out, since constitution is percentage based, my old tank took more hits and gained only so little extra endurance/health that maxed perception/resolve still outweighs constitution with the current stats.

 

I really hope they'd put minimal might restriction on armors and increase constitution % per point to discourage min/max'ing.

 

 

Can you explain better please cuz i'm not really familiar with English.

 

In one word : are you dissapointed from gave 21 CON to your dwarf ?

[Kai]

Min/Maxing in this game is overrated. Due to the reverse difficulty curve of the game (game starts out incredibly hard, then gets progressively easier as you reach higher levels), you can do just fine in PotD with non-min/maxed chars. I tried it.

 

While difficulty makes min/max more or less important, I agree that it isn't a necessity. Though this game probably have 2 extreme types of gamers with the majority somewhere in between: those who care mostly about the story and not so much about combat, and those who care far more about the challenge of combat. So for those who combat is a significantly higher focus  than the RP experience, it makes sense to min/max stats and chars.

 

While I prefer to have characters with slightly flawed stats (don't mind the companion stats whatsoever) since they make them more interesting and realistic in my mind. I'm still on my first playthrough with an orlan melee rogue whose stats I assigned before I had a proper grasp on how the system worked, she's kinda flawed but still fun to play since it's a challenge sometimes to make things work around those flaws. 

[eisberg]

At Might 4 you shouldn't be able to wear heavy armour or lift a decent weapon. Tsk. I hope they add that sort of mechanism.

 

This whole Might being both physical and mental strength and Intel being AoE on everything is also pretty horrible imo. How do you play a dumb Barbarian who cleaves everything in sight?

 

You need to change your thinking.  The barbarian that can cleave everything in sight is intelligent on how to wield that sword to cleave everything in sight.  You can still be a dumb barbarian, you just have to change your preconcieved notions about the stats in this game, and not compare them to old games.

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

It depends on the role of the character. However my backline squishy wizard and priest still have 16 con. Why? Because perception and resolve are meaningless to them. 20 might / 16 con / 17 dex / 3 per / 19 int / 3 res. Helps them not get 1 shotted all the time.

 

That's a good tactic thanks.

 

You assume they will be hit, so you give them more life and lower their escape/deflection capacities, interesting.

[Mungri]

I play these games entirely combat and build perfection obsessed. I enjoy the story to the point of not wanting to take the horrible pre made companions with me.

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

I play these games entirely combat and build perfection obsessed. I enjoy the story to the point of not wanting to take the horrible pre made companions with me.

 

lol

[Nokturnal Lex]

 

At Might 4 you shouldn't be able to wear heavy armour or lift a decent weapon. Tsk. I hope they add that sort of mechanism.

 

This whole Might being both physical and mental strength and Intel being AoE on everything is also pretty horrible imo. How do you play a dumb Barbarian who cleaves everything in sight?

 

You need to change your thinking.  The barbarian that can cleave everything in sight is intelligent on how to wield that sword to cleave everything in sight.  You can still be a dumb barbarian, you just have to change your preconcieved notions about the stats in this game, and not compare them to old games.

 

 

It's a design decision, could go either way depending entirely on opinion.

 

Personally, I prefer dmg not relying on the "Strength" stat because it's also being used as a roleplaying element in this game. Mages and Rogues are stereotyped as being weak but smart/agile, but in this game in order to maximize your Mage and Rogue dps they have to max Might, thus leading to Rogues and Mages who are stronger than Barbarians and Warriors because as tanks they don't need those stats.

 

Basically, relying on Might for dmg ruins the roleplay element, but from a game design stand point it allows damage to scale for every class evenly and easily.