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Unfortunately, the only retailer not selling Steam copies is GOG, and a disproportionate number of that community probably got their copies during the KickStarter.

I believe EA's Origin is independent of Steam and they're also selling PoE. Not sure how many people use that thing though.

 

They really should, though.

 

Origin does not get a cut for the first 30 days on any KS-backed game.

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I don't follow. Steamspy says specifically  377,667 ± 16,323. That is the best approximation we have. Not 400.000. And as the other person said, all the backers who opted for a steam copy are part of that number, which is a significant chunk. That puts the total number closer to 300.000 than 400.000. It's still not bad, but I just don't see why you insist on calling 400.000 a reasonable approximation. It's not.

 

http://steamspy.com/app/291650

 

 

Well that is up to you,

 

I'm not here to split hairs with you... I'm making a reasonable estimate on copies sold. An stated so to you directly.

 

And I'm pretty sure I'm SERIOUSLY underselling it.... given those are ONLY STEAM numbers not the other sales outside of STEAM.  Likely the number is much higher than even I estimated.... I was pretty conservative.

 

18 Million dollars up to this point on a 4 million budget. Heck its more likely a good 20+ million on a 2.5 million budget.

 

But either way... it proves everyone wrong that a game like this in this day and age isn't a moneymaker... its actually a really big moneymaker... Because the cost vs risk is incredibly low and the profit margin much higher than in other games.

 

 

What makes you think they didn't spend the budget? I think it's pretty certain they spent all/most of it.

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I believe Gamespot gave Original Sin "PC Game of the Year," which can't have hurt it's sales. It was also deeply discounted for quite a while.
 

 

 

Yeah, and look what they do with it. They just announced to make a so called enhanced edition, multiplatform and fully voiced with full controller support.

 

I don't get it, they're successful doing a kickstarter and catering to a specific audience and once that's done, they take the mainstream road like everybody else instead of building on their success.

 

I don't understand how you can write what you just did and not understand that IS building on their success.

 

Unless you live in a world where your company making money and your game being successful does not equal progress.

 

 

 

 


Does it hurt you in any way? Why shouldn't console players play with that game? Also EE will be a free upgrade for anyone owning the game - how is that a bad thing?

 

Ultimately it does hurt PC players, if the game is developed with consoles as the primary medium. 

You do realize that you are talking about a game that is already out, right?

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I believe Gamespot gave Original Sin "PC Game of the Year," which can't have hurt it's sales. It was also deeply discounted for quite a while.

 

 

 

Yeah, and look what they do with it. They just announced to make a so called enhanced edition, multiplatform and fully voiced with full controller support.

 

I don't get it, they're successful doing a kickstarter and catering to a specific audience and once that's done, they take the mainstream road like everybody else instead of building on their success.

 

I don't understand how you can write what you just did and not understand that IS building on their success.

 

Unless you live in a world where your company making money and your game being successful does not equal progress.

 

 

 

 

Does it hurt you in any way? Why shouldn't console players play with that game? Also EE will be a free upgrade for anyone owning the game - how is that a bad thing?

 

Ultimately it does hurt PC players, if the game is developed with consoles as the primary medium. 

You do realize that you are talking about a game that is already out, right?

 

 

Nope, I'm talking in general terms. Not about a specific game. Present a counter argument if you can. The console drive has "streamlined" options, to use a friendly term, in almost every game that came out in the last five to ten years. The result is shiny on the outside with less customisation and gameplay options and in many cases abysmal PC ports that don't take advantage of the possibilities.

 

If you like that, fine by me. But I'm glad there are still some studios that don't take the first exit to mainstream highway.

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Nope, I'm talking in general terms. Not about a specific game. 

 

That's.... not how discussion works.

 

You can't just enter a conversation and state something about it but outside of the current context.

 

They were talking about Divinity: Original Sin going to consoles. You can't just blurt out "CONSOLE VERSIONS RUIN GAMES" and expect people to agree with your point, because while you were talking in general, they were talking about a specific situation. 

 

Also: you can't start out a part of the current conversation, which you did, and then claim you were speaking in general in order to save face or "still be right" or whatever. That's a **** move.

 

So excuse me for not buying your "I'm just ignorant in what we're talking about" routine.

 

Original Sin is already out on PC. How does making a console version possibly affect you, other than the tired "but other people are playing my games!" battlecry? This entire idea that companies don't care about people that play on platforms YOU PERSONALLY dislike is infantile. 

 

You think that if they knew they could do it right and without compromise, Obsidian wouldn't port Pillars?

Edited by Bryy
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What makes you think they didn't spend the budget? I think it's pretty certain they spent all/most of it.

 

 

Well I went into that on the last page.... I did state specifically that was speculation... but.. there's reason to believe they already had some in reserve for the expansion pack.

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Original Sin is already out on PC. How does making a console version possibly affect you, other than the tired "but other people are playing my games!" battlecry? This entire idea that companies don't care about people that play on platforms YOU PERSONALLY dislike is infantile. 

 

You think that if they knew they could do it right and without compromise, Obsidian wouldn't port Pillars?

 

 

It can be easily ruined. First by limiting the UI, customisation as well as gameplay options to the limited possibilities of a controller. In fact, that's a given if you want to cater to consoles, since they only have the controller as the only option.

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Awesome. Any indication of GOG sales?

Just that it's currently at place 5 (Hero) and 16 (Champion) of gog's charts - no absolute numbers.

 

 

PoE has consitently been in the upper half of the top 10 selling games on GOG ever since it came out. It only dips a bit when a weekend promotion includes a sale like the current one, 75% off on all Unreal games and 50% off on Mortal Komabt 1-3 (speaking of which, I think it's time to buy something). For the better part of this week the Hero Edition was the best selling item that wasn't The Witcher 3.

 

But that only means it is popular on GOG which still is rather niche compared to Steam. CD Projekt's past sales figures have shown GOG to make up less than 20% of their sales, so... that might not mean too much.

Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
                        -- Tony Kakko

 

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Awesome. Any indication of GOG sales?

Just that it's currently at place 5 (Hero) and 16 (Champion) of gog's charts - no absolute numbers.

 

 

You can get the historic/ overall relative sales as well, since you can do a sort by bestselling. That's for RPGs, since that is where the most direct comparison to similar titles can be made, it's 356/1094 by sales against all titles. It's probably the highest placed game that hasn't been on sale, excluding Twitcher3 which probably includes registered retail copies anyway.

 

For PoE at least it seems that KS copies don't count towards that ranking either as I get it marked as unowned, though for example DivOS is marked as owned and is a KS copy.

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383746 sales on steam. 14.2% are kickstarter copies. Means that 329,254 copies have actuallt been sold on steam

329254*44,99= 14,81 million in sales minus Steams 30% brings it down to 10.37 million dollars in sales from Steam alone.

 

Congrats Obsidian!

Edited by Poddmeister
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383746 sales on steam. 14.2% are kickstarter copies. Means that 329,254 copies have actuallt been sold on steam

329254*44,99= 14,81 million in sales minus Steams 30% brings it down to 10.37 million dollars in sales from Steam alone.

 

Congrats Obsidian!

You forgot taxes and steam royalties around 30%

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Nope, I'm talking in general terms. Not about a specific game. 

 

That's.... not how discussion works.

 

You can't just enter a conversation and state something about it but outside of the current context.

 

They were talking about Divinity: Original Sin going to consoles. You can't just blurt out "CONSOLE VERSIONS RUIN GAMES" and expect people to agree with your point, because while you were talking in general, they were talking about a specific situation. 

 

Also: you can't start out a part of the current conversation, which you did, and then claim you were speaking in general in order to save face or "still be right" or whatever. That's a **** move.

 

So excuse me for not buying your "I'm just ignorant in what we're talking about" routine.

 

Original Sin is already out on PC. How does making a console version possibly affect you, other than the tired "but other people are playing my games!" battlecry? This entire idea that companies don't care about people that play on platforms YOU PERSONALLY dislike is infantile. 

 

You think that if they knew they could do it right and without compromise, Obsidian wouldn't port Pillars?

 

 

I agree with what you are saying, abaris was definitely trying to save face by changing from discussing a specific game to general gaming, however there is a chance that D:OS being ported to consoles can have a negative effect for future installments on PC.

 

If the port sells well on consoles, lets say 500k+, then the devs might look at that and think that while developing the next game for PC that they should consider the consoles as well. This could eventually lead to streamlining some aspects of the game on all platforms. Selling 500k+ without doing much to favor consoles is quite good, they could start thinking in the line of, imagine how well the game would have sold if more focus was put on consoles from the start.

 

I am not saying that will happen but we have seen it before. Just look at BioWare and what they did to the Dragon Age series. 

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383746 sales on steam. 14.2% are kickstarter copies. Means that 329,254 copies have actuallt been sold on steam

329254*44,99= 14,81 million in sales minus Steams 30% brings it down to 10.37 million dollars in sales from Steam alone.

 

Congrats Obsidian!

You forgot taxes and steam royalties around 30%

 

Taxes are impossible for me to make any assumptions about since I have no idea about the US tax code. I clearly deducted Steams 30% percent though, so 10,37 M before taxes!

 

I actually lowballed too, since I kind of doubt that there has been no sales whatsoever for the champion and royal editions

Edited by Poddmeister
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I love this game. This is my second playthrough (well third but I stopped on Barbarian as of 1.05) and I haven't even played my Witcher III yet which was pre-ordered. I look forward to the expansion :)

 

I definitely spread the word when I can about it! Hopefully I get a few people in those stats :p

Edited by kryadan
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Nope, I'm talking in general terms. Not about a specific game. 

 

That's.... not how discussion works.

 

You can't just enter a conversation and state something about it but outside of the current context.

 

They were talking about Divinity: Original Sin going to consoles. You can't just blurt out "CONSOLE VERSIONS RUIN GAMES" and expect people to agree with your point, because while you were talking in general, they were talking about a specific situation. 

 

Also: you can't start out a part of the current conversation, which you did, and then claim you were speaking in general in order to save face or "still be right" or whatever. That's a **** move.

 

So excuse me for not buying your "I'm just ignorant in what we're talking about" routine.

 

Original Sin is already out on PC. How does making a console version possibly affect you, other than the tired "but other people are playing my games!" battlecry? This entire idea that companies don't care about people that play on platforms YOU PERSONALLY dislike is infantile. 

 

You think that if they knew they could do it right and without compromise, Obsidian wouldn't port Pillars?

 

 

I agree with what you are saying, abaris was definitely trying to save face by changing from discussing a specific game to general gaming, however there is a chance that D:OS being ported to consoles can have a negative effect for future installments on PC.

 

If the port sells well on consoles, lets say 500k+, then the devs might look at that and think that while developing the next game for PC that they should consider the consoles as well. This could eventually lead to streamlining some aspects of the game on all platforms. Selling 500k+ without doing much to favor consoles is quite good, they could start thinking in the line of, imagine how well the game would have sold if more focus was put on consoles from the start.

 

I am not saying that will happen but we have seen it before. Just look at BioWare and what they did to the Dragon Age series. 

 

Here's the "sad" truth about gaming: companies need consoles to sell. Consoles move a ridiculous amount of product. TW3 would never have been made if not for console sales. 

 

It also all depends on the company philosophy. If Larian wants to make a port, why not? That does not automatically mean every future game will be catered to consoles. It just means they eventually do console ports of their games. 

 

Money is not this infecting substance. It's not Black Water. 

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To put those numbers into perspective, one-off phenomenons and Blizzard blockbusters aside, I think some of the following numbers are fairly telling of what you can expect from a game released on PC these days initially.

 

Total War Rome 2 1.13 million copies as of March 31, 2014 (game released September 2013)

Football Manager 2015 (PC/Mac/Linux release, excluding FM Handheld) 810K as of March 31, 2015 (game released November 2014), according to Steamspy, the number of owners is roughly 950k by now (there was a sale in between)

Alien Isolation sold about 2.1 million copies across all platforms as of March 31, 2015, reportedly 400k - 500k on PC

 

In particular the above two are amongst the biggest PC franchises that exist. So anything in between 300k and 400k within two months ain't that shabby for a game released exclusively on PC, and one that isn't part of an established franchise. I think those are the numbers projects like these should be realistically targeting, actually -- even compared to some of the above, there are smaller teams working on them, Pillars is no exclusion, with no big publisher backing and marketing and often comparably "low tech" . I don't mean the latter purely in terms of visual glitz which a comparably big production such as Total War sports. A game such as Foot Man doesn't look much visually, but the AI and match sim (90 minutes in full, which makes Fifa look like Nintendo World Cup or Mega Man Soccer, kinda), has never had seen any serious rival even when the series had rivals. Anything significantly higher appears a tad unrealistic. In particular the recent revival of oldschool RPGs has lead to competition in numbers and quality -- whilst a series such as Football Manager is pretty much the only serious option around for bedroom Klinsmann/Guardiola wannabes by now.

Edited by Sven_
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The GOG sale numbers can be estimated using the all time bestselling list, by comparing to some games which have revealed such information. The positions of PoE and some other Kickstarter games are:

 

247. Shadowrun Returns

334. Divinity: Original Sin

355. Pillars of Eternity: Hero Edition

356. Expeditions: Conquistador

550. Wasteland 2 Digital Classic Edition

 

PoE and Wasteland 2 have multiple editions which are listed separately. The PoE Champion and Royal Edition are 904 and 949, respectively.

So, if anyone knows a game that has revealed it's GoG sales, we can get some extremely vague numbers.  

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I agree with what you are saying, abaris was definitely trying to save face by changing from discussing a specific game to general gaming, however there is a chance that D:OS being ported to consoles can have a negative effect for future installments on PC.

 

 

No need for me to save face. My opinion hasn't changed. I resent the turning to console Larian is doing and I resent games being consolized for the reasons I mentioned. If you have no problem with action based hack and slash with limited options, you're entitled to your opinion just the same as I am to mine.

 

I'm perfectly aware that Larian is handing out the so called enhanced version for free, if you already own the game. That proves that at least there are still decent human beings at work. But it doesn't change my opinion that they are taking the first exit to mainstream once their kickstarter was successful.

Edited by abaris
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I agree with what you are saying, abaris was definitely trying to save face by changing from discussing a specific game to general gaming, however there is a chance that D:OS being ported to consoles can have a negative effect for future installments on PC.

 

 

No need for me to save face. My opinion hasn't changed. I resent the turning to console Larian is doing and I resent games being consolized for the reasons I mentioned. If you have no problem with action based hack and slash with limited options, you're entitled to your opinion just the same as I am to mine.

 

I'm perfectly aware that Larian is handing out the so called enhanced version for free, if you already own the game. That proves that at least there are still decent human beings at work. But it doesn't change my opinion that they are taking the first exit to mainstream once their kickstarter was successful.

 

"Mainstream".

 

*rolls eyes*

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I agree with what you are saying, abaris was definitely trying to save face by changing from discussing a specific game to general gaming, however there is a chance that D:OS being ported to consoles can have a negative effect for future installments on PC.

 

 

No need for me to save face. My opinion hasn't changed. I resent the turning to console Larian is doing and I resent games being consolized for the reasons I mentioned. If you have no problem with action based hack and slash with limited options, you're entitled to your opinion just the same as I am to mine.

 

I'm perfectly aware that Larian is handing out the so called enhanced version for free, if you already own the game. That proves that at least there are still decent human beings at work. But it doesn't change my opinion that they are taking the first exit to mainstream once their kickstarter was successful.

 

 

InXile is doing the same thing with Wastland2.  I just don't see titles like DOS and Wasteland2 selling well on consoles.  Just don't think slow paced turn based appeals to modern console gamers anymore. It's all about the action nowadays. Plus I would imagine a controller would be  painful way to play these types of games.

 

Bioware was once my All time favorite developer, but sadly I haven't played anything after ME 2. Haven't touched any of the dragon age series games. Just as the new  PC RPG renaissance was kicking off Larian and inXile are already planning to follow Bioware to the console promise lands. I wouldn't be surprised to see Obsidian release a console version of POE within a year's time.

 

If these games find success in the console market we are back to the neglected step children once again.

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InXile is doing the same thing with Wastland2.  I just don't see titles like DOS and Wasteland2 selling well on consoles.  Just don't think slow paced turn based appeals to modern console gamers anymore. It's all about the action nowadays. Plus I would imagine a controller would be  painful way to play these types of games.

 

 

XCOM did pretty well on the consoles, but it's control scheme and pacing was designed with consoles in mind.  Just a straight port of Wasteland 2 to consoles would probably be a pretty dreadful, hard to control experience, but a lot of that is it's encounter design and general interface design, something more streamlined like Shadowrun: Dragonfall I think could port pretty well consoles and still be a very good game.  A real time with pause game like Pillars would a trainwreck on consoles.

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Just don't think slow paced turn based appeals to modern console gamers anymore. It's all about the action nowadays. 

I will never understand why people think people that play on consoles are a "different type" of person. It's just another platform to play games.

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Just don't think slow paced turn based appeals to modern console gamers anymore. It's all about the action nowadays. 

I will never understand why people think people that play on consoles are a "different type" of person. It's just another platform to play games.

 

 

The games catering to consoles are aimed at a different audience. They're usually more action based and they offer limited options due to controller restrictions. There are only so many buttons you can push and that in itself puts restrictions on the UI, customization and gameplay in general.

 

So yes, in general it is a different audience with different expectations.

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So, if anyone knows a game that has revealed it's GoG sales, we can get some extremely vague numbers.  

 

Legend of Grimrock (1) did, as did Twitcher 2. But they're useless as they're from mid-late 2012, so heading towards 3 years old. IIRC it was ~20k for Twitcher2 and ~32k for Grimrock at that time, but that's iirc. And GOG archiving their forum seems to have completely destroyed Google's indexing for checking those numbers, unfortunately.

 

OTOH you can make some conclusions from relative positions. Since DivOS on steam has roughly twice PoE's sales but their positions on GOG are practically identical- DivOS's position includes ks copies while PoE's doesn't, after all- we can conclude that the proportion sold on GOG should be twice as high for PoE as for DivOS, ie whatever number you'd add to PoE's steam figures to get the total ought to be about the same as that for DivOS, not half as would be expected if just looking at steam sales.

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