PK htiw klaw eriF Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 So this thread is now about Capitalism? Stalin was godtier, the lot of you need the gulag. 1 "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands
dirigible Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 So this thread is now about Capitalism? Stalin was godtier, the lot of you need the gulag. Stalin a ****. Mao did everything Stalin did, but better. Mao for eternal leader. 1
Hatred Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 The ride never ends, Obsidian. This, however, is not fake. Yeah it isn't. It is proof that OE isnt just caving to people or trying to please people. They clearly are not pleasing everyone or trying to do so. If you think they are you are confused as the people making those tweets.
rkade8583 Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 So this thread is now about Capitalism? Stalin was godtier, the lot of you need the gulag. Stalin a ****. Mao did everything Stalin did, but better. Mao for eternal leader. Calm down, Mao. Don't want this thread to Stalin. *rimshot* Sorry. I couldn't resist. I'll Trotsky away from this Lenin of jokes before I get Castroted. 5
Hatred Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 This has been fun but I am sleepy. Have fun with the teeth gnashing everyone !
Lerina Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 @Longknife This may be a daring suggestion but I'm going to throw it out anyway. Consider attempting to watch the FemFreq videos without your full battle armor on. I.e., just listen to what she has to say, reserving judgment on it for the moment. She is making a case. Her case is about the representation of women in gaming. She is pointing out things that we mostly pass by without comment or without notice simply because they're so much a part of the accepted background to things that we tend to take it for granted. She does this by picking examples from an enormous variety of games. What she is not doing is attempting to write balanced critiques -- political, ludographical, or otherwise -- of the games she's mentioning. That's not her intent. And while you're right -- IMO -- that she misses the mark on a number of the specific examples, I believe she's very much right about the general case she's making. Gaming culture does have a problem with the presence and representation of anyone who isn't white, straight, and male, and most of her examples are relevant at pointing this out. Very well said. The FF videos could be part of a useful discussion of the specific examples but several people seem to think they are an attack on games that they like (hint: they aren't; no, they just aren't) and react with hostile, idiotic responses that don't make a credible attempt to argue the points they disagree with. The video responses to the FF videos are beyond ridiculous - one ad hominem (err, ad feminem?) fallacy rant after another ("AS is a lying liar and no one should listen to anything she says!!!!111oneone!!!"). There are several videos from people who haven't watched (or haven't understood) the FF videos, things like "Haha, I can play a female character in legends of whatever 12, checkmate Anita Sarkeesian!!!111oneone(two!!)!!!" My problem with the FF videos (and I'm a woman saying this) is that she has openly admitted that she hasn't played all of the games she reviews. She trusts what she is told by her husband/partners, and does not do the research HERSELF. I wouldn't object to her trying to make a case that supports her personal views of gaming if she were the one actually playing the games to look at their content and treatment of men and women. I don't say what is or isn't good about PoE, because I'm not playing it. While my husband plays it and I listen to the story, I can enjoy that, however, I wouldn't dream of offering a review of the game in any way shape or form, as I haven't played it myself. How can I objectively say that the mechanics are good or bad if I've never touched them? Similarly, how can someone say that women are mistreated in games if they're not playing the games they're upset about? It's the same thing to me. If you aren't the one studying a subject, you can still have an opinion on that subject, but more often than not, your opinion will be flawed in that you took your main points from other people with their biases and personal feelings heavily mixed in to what facts they may be willing to give, and that's being optimistic. In the worst case scenarios, taking your "research" from other peoples' opinions ends up with you just repeating flat out lies, since they're so invested in their causes that they can't even be honest with themselves. 2
PrimeJunta Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 The market or fair competition != capitalism. Capitalism is a crooked game which makes sure the same players always win the "competition." No, Capitalism - by definition - is a system of free market enterprise based on impartial competition. You're thinking of Cronyism. Oh? In that case, capitalism doesn't exist, and never has. I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
Luckmann Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) Obsidian will ignore this one. Just like they SHOULD have ignored the last one. We all learn through our mistakes, Obsidian included. Brad Wardell is nothing short of a ****ing hero when it comes to this idiocy, and he say everything that really needs to be said on this subject. He's had to deal with this particular brand of insanity before, and it shows. The ride never ends, Obsidian.Oh, look! It's people that were never interested in the game to begin with, being upset about the platform they are politicizing isn't politicizing fast enough for them. What an utter and complete surprise that they are still upset. Shocking. Shockinng. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, crazy people. Edited April 4, 2015 by Luckmann 5
dirigible Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) No, Capitalism - by definition - is a system of free market enterprise based on impartial competition. You're thinking of Cronyism. Oh? In that case, capitalism doesn't exist, and never has. No ****, Sherlock. Criticizing capitalism based on what happens in America is like criticizing Communism based on what happens in North Korea. EDIT: Which communist dictator would make the best POE companion?? I have to say, I think Stalin would make a pretty good Paladin. Edited April 4, 2015 by dirigible
rkade8583 Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 No, Capitalism - by definition - is a system of free market enterprise based on impartial competition. You're thinking of Cronyism. Oh? In that case, capitalism doesn't exist, and never has. No ****, Sherlock. Criticizing capitalism based on what happens in America is like criticizing Communism based on what happens in North Korea. EDIT: Which communist dictator would make the best POE companion?? I have to say, I think Stalin would make a pretty good Paladin. A Staladin? 2
Bayzent Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 The ride never ends, Obsidian. This, however, is not fake. Weee didn't staaart theee fireee No we didn't light it but we tried to fight it
darkpatriot Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) Could someone please explain to me EXACTLY what happened with the Transphobia quest issue? ME NO GET IT! PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE It wasn't a quest. People who donated lots of money through kickstarter got to write their own personal message in the game. You can see them by clicking tombstones. One such backer wrote a short limerick about a lady's man who kills himself after finding out he slept with a dude. It was a short, comedic thing. Someone on twitter (who incidentally believes that all men deserve to die - seriously) took it as an insult against transsexuals. He/she/it complained to Sawyer, and Sawyer said he'd look into it. It got changed in patch 1.03 And why are backers upset by the notion of game dev's removing offensive content they missed? This wasn't content they created or endorsed correct? Because it wasn't offensive. Certainly not the kind of offensive that requires something to be censored. It is only considered offensive by people with a radical agenda that can't tolerate any dissent or disagreement and regularly use the tactic of labeling any opposing opinion as offensive, transphobic, hateful, or some variation of that. Basically either agree with them or you are a bad horrible person. Many backers are upset that people with that radical and intolerant viewpoint are able to influence the games and developers they like. They are upset that someone with an obvious agenda is able to push issues like this and force them into the game, despite the fact that the vast majorities of backers do not agree with them and do not want to see that kind of change. They are upset for how this will influence future games by causing developers to censor content to avoid having a twitter/tumblr crusade launched against them. Do you really have trouble understanding that? Edited April 4, 2015 by darkpatriot 7
PrimeJunta Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 'Capitalism is inherently sexist' Haven't heard that insanity before. Pretty sure he said that it was due to it's history, not the nature of capitalism itself. Well yes I did, but what is "the nature of capitalism itself?" Capitalism is a particular system of economic relations that arose from and continues to evolve in a particular set of historical circumstances. You can't detach it from those. You can, of course, imagine some utopian capitalism divorced from these considerations, consisting of people who never cheat, lie, steal, conceal information, abuse a dominant market position or other forms of power to nip competition in the bud, use their resources to subvert existing political institutions to fit their agendas or create new political institutions from scratch and so on, but that's not a particularly productive use of your time IMO. This is one reason I'm not big on endgames, as I mentioned earlier. I don't really care for utopian Communism either for that matter. 1 I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
Creslin321 Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 The market or fair competition != capitalism. Capitalism is a crooked game which makes sure the same players always win the "competition." No, Capitalism - by definition - is a system of free market enterprise based on impartial competition. You're thinking of Cronyism. Oh? In that case, capitalism doesn't exist, and never has. Capitalism, much like socialism, communism, or any other governmental system, is subject to corruption. I don't think you can ever implement a governmental system that is not corruptible. The best you can do (IMO) is have a system that provides the most freedom and security for the people, while having the highest resistance to corruption. Personally, I prefer capitalism over socialism because I don't like the idea of all the power being concentrated in the government. At least in capitalism the power is split between the government and the modern day equivalent of merchant princes, so I feel like there can be a bit more resistance to corruption there. However, as 2008 showed, this can still be corrupted .
deuxhero Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 I want to say I hope Sawyer is enjoying his weekend, because it doesn't seem the devs who saw him enable threats against them are. 3 Never negotiate. You will only encourage more acts of terror.
cirdanx Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 The ride never ends, Obsidian. Oh thats good, that made me laugh so hard. These people are highly amusing 3 "A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies, the man who never reads lives one."
PrimeJunta Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 @Creslin321: IMO the most successful social-political-economic system we've had was the one that existed in the US and Western Europe and eventually a few other places between about 1950 and about 1980. That was thirty solid years of massive and broad-based economic and social progress. For a while it looked like we really could eliminate -- or as good as -- want, deprivation, and injustice. I was old enough to remember how it went off the rails: the giddy binge on free-market distillate during Reagan, followed by the boom-and-bust cycles of the 90's and early noughties, then the crash of 2008 and the persistent malaise since then. The usual forces of history reasserted themselves and we've slid back to the standard order for human societies -- a kind of feudalism where about 1% of the population controls most of the resources, and the rest make do with what crumbs fall off their table. From where I'm at that sucks and we really ought to think of something better. I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
Namutree Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 The ride never ends, Obsidian. Oh thats good, that made me laugh so hard. These people are highly amusing The way the forums are looking these days I'm not convinced we're all that much better. 1 "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.
Badmojo Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 The ride never ends, Obsidian. This, however, is not fake. What? The offended are still not pleased after Obsidian bowed down to them and they demand more? I am shocked, SHOCKED I SAY! /s. These people get off on bullying others and making big name companies like obsidian bow down and beg for forgiveness from them. Giving in to them on anything is the first mistake because they will always just come back demanding more. 4
Bayzent Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) So if instead of saying "Kill that child" he says "Late Abort that Child" would SJW be OK with the Quest? Maybe it's just a semantic problem. Have we established that he kid is male and Meadow Folk already? Edited April 4, 2015 by Bayzent 1
Namutree Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 "Late Abort that Child" Maybe it's just a semantic problem That would be confusing as you can't abort a child. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.
evilmiera Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 Why are feminists actively involved in this? What has this got to do with feminism? Some belief that men like to see children murdered and women don't? Feminists = ISIS No. I don't even know how to respond to this other than just saying that simple word, so I won't. 1
Creslin321 Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 @Creslin321: IMO the most successful social-political-economic system we've had was the one that existed in the US and Western Europe and eventually a few other places between about 1950 and about 1980. That was thirty solid years of massive and broad-based economic and social progress. For a while it looked like we really could eliminate -- or as good as -- want, deprivation, and injustice. I was old enough to remember how it went off the rails: the giddy binge on free-market distillate during Reagan, followed by the boom-and-bust cycles of the 90's and early noughties, then the crash of 2008 and the persistent malaise since then. The usual forces of history reasserted themselves and we've slid back to the standard order for human societies -- a kind of feudalism where about 1% of the population controls most of the resources, and the rest make do with what crumbs fall off their table. From where I'm at that sucks and we really ought to think of something better. I don't have a huge amount of knowledge on the subject, but I definitely don't disagree with you about the modern day wealth distribution problem. But at least to me, it seems like this kind of thing happens regardless of what government system there is. People will find a way to corrupt it. They will exploit tax loopholes, they will buy off watchdog agencies, etc. etc. Honestly, I don't really know what to do about it, it's a problem that has basically always existed. And every solution I can conceive of seems worse than the problem. IIRC, Communism was supposed to be a potential solution to this problem, but it seems like most communist countries have devolved into dictatorial regimes. Once again, you can't stop human nature. Maybe the problem is just that the change in times has produced new challenges? For example, the government of the US was conceived with the idea that people would try to corrupt it, and I think that the checks and balances system worked for a while, but now it seems to be falling apart. There are so many different things that exist in today's environment than exited in the 18th century, and there is no way that the founders of the US government could have thought of them.
Lys3 Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 Can't devs just stop using twitter, nothing good ever comes out from 140 character post. Just stop using twitter!
Creslin321 Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 So if instead of saying "Kill that child" he says "Late Abort that Child" would SJW be OK with the Quest? Maybe it's just a semantic problem. Have we established that he kid is male and Meadow Folk already? I don't know if the tweet in the OP was real, but if it was, SJW's would not care about it. "Save the children" is a conservative argument, and no one in gaming gives a crap about them . SJWs care about women, marginalized groups, and identity politics. Not violence, you're getting your authoritarians mixed up .
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