Resting / Camping Discussion Thread

[redneckdevil]

Mmmm so why not create scrolls, use magical equipment that grant spells.

There's nothing wrong asking for a mod for unlimited resting anywhere. That's what mods are for, to change something to ur liking.

Saying that the rest mechanic is stupid and pointless, that's when u should expect to get blasted. If u are using every single bit of ur abilities in every fight and end up having to go back to an inn because u already used up 2 supplies after 3 battles.......ur going against the grain so don't complain.

Wizards auto attacking most fights and managing resources, that's how it's been in pnp and the earlier games. This game isn't deaigned for resting after every fight and for the player to blow their load in a single battle and then sleep. Hell in pnp most wizards and sorcerers used crossbows for a couple of levels because most games ive seen and games I've ran, u couldn't just rest after every battle.

But this is a video game, why can't I blow my load on every battle and the rest after fight? Because while it is a video game, it's trying to bring the pnp experience to us in a different format and wants u to think.

 

So if u want to blow ur load every fight and want a mod to give u unlimited rest, then by all means have fun if that's what it takes for u to have fun. But if u think the resting mechanic is broken or stupid because u want to blow ur load every fight and u know the game isn't deaigned around that and yet u want to anyway, then u can u just gotta suck it up in making sure the supplies are filled and know ur way back to an inn or stronghold. Because ur going against the grain and the design and the comments of "get gudd" or "learn to play" are justified for ur bitching )

Knowing the game isn't designed around that and want a mod for it, that's okay that's what they are there for. The other....yeah...get gudd then

[Trauma_Hound]

There's nothing wrong asking for a mod for unlimited resting anywhere. That's what mods are for, to change something to ur liking.

 

This is already a feature of the command console, why would anyone make a mod for this. Just makes me laugh when I think about how a changing game mechanics via hacking isn't the same thing as cheating by using a feature within the game. If you mod the game in this way it's the same damn thing as typing rest into your command console every time you use that unlimited rest feature.

[Alavanger]

why not make a upgrade to the keep that adds a supply??

 

each supply you wish to add cost dbl what the last supply cost.

 

1k for the first 2k second 4k 3rd and so on.

[Caerdon]

Nonononono. Using console to rest is c̩̭̳̦̦̺̼̥̺h̬͕̻͉̺̗̖̫e̩͙̮͈̤̥̳̰a̗̳̣̺ͅt̼͈͙ị̙̜̝͔̥n͈͔͖͓̭̙̼g̞̳. Using a mod for the exact same thing is perfectly fine.

[manageri]

You make yourself a mod that removes resting limitations.

 

It wouldn't be the same because it would cost money and loading time. As it is, there's more than enough camping supplies to be found that I've never needed to backtrack for them yet. Yet they're not so common that I can thoughtlessly blast away at every xaurip with my biggest guns.

 

The rest system is great, one of the major improvements over the IE games.

 

Good job evading the question as usual.

 

Let me break this down for you people who don't understand why resting is ALREADY limitless.

 

There's two kinds of limitations you can put on something. Hard ones, and mushy crappy ones. PoE has mushy crappy rest limits. This is so because absolutely nothing prevents you from running back to an inn after literally every fight, as long as you have the tiny amount of money needed for the inn or camping supplies. Since we get tons of money, and because rooms in the early game's inn when money may actually be tight cost nothing, this is never a real problem, and thus my claim that you could rest after literally every fight remains a FACT. a ****ing fact. you are factually wrong if you claim that the game limits resting in any way, other than puny inconsequential amounts of lost money.

 

So now that we've established there are no REAL limits, what kind of mushy limits are there? The answer is, only one kind, and that is making the game not fun for the player if they rest a lot, because then they have to go through that tedious process of walking back to an inn/shop/something. Note how this targets the PLAYER and not the PARTY, which is absurd. There are no IN GAME consequences whatsoever for this. How devs can think that boring the player into compliance with arbitrary soft nonsense "limits" like this is a good idea is truly a mystery for the ages.

 

So to summarize these "limits", apart from the money which we already determined to be inconsequential, the only way in which PoE attempts to limit resting is making the player sit there waiting for the party to move to the inn and back. Since there is absolutely no challenge or meaningful content in this, we may as well be staring at a loading screen for the entire time, and having that 75 cp camping supply cost deducted from us. Therefore it is, again, FACTUALLY true, that apart from the tedium imposed on the player in a stroke of true developmental genius, the resting system we have now would be IDENTICAL in terms of IN GAME mechanics if we could simply rest whenever we want, and just had 75 cp deducted for doing so.

 

If anyone disagrees with anything here, please explain in sufficient detail why anything I wrote is not factually true.

[Caerdon]

It's also FACTUALLY true that you don't have to run to the inn when you use your brain a bit and manage your resources properly.

[Kal Adan]

So now that we've established there are no REAL limits, what kind of mushy limits are there? The answer is, only one kind, and that is making the game not fun for the player if they rest a lot, because then they have to go through that tedious process of walking back to an inn/shop/something.

You are right - rest limit is there to make it tedious for people who use rest a lot without making resting impossible. It's supposed to make people either suffer or start thinking and adapting by using smarter strategy than "I rest a lot and quickly go back to an inn for more supplies ad infinitum". That's the cost you're paying: the cost of your own time by trying to play the game the way it wasn't designed to. It also invalidates your claim, because you're the one trying to do something you're not supposed to and complain about it. You might not like the design, which is fine, but saying it's wrong is wrong in itself, because it's working properly.

 

So to summarize these "limits", apart from the money which we already determined to be inconsequential, the only way in which PoE attempts to limit resting is making the player sit there waiting for the party to move to the inn and back. Since there is absolutely no challenge or meaningful content in this, we may as well be staring at a loading screen for the entire time, and having that 75 cp camping supply cost deducted from us. Therefore it is, again, FACTUALLY true, that apart from the tedium imposed on the player in a stroke of true developmental genius, the resting system we have now would be IDENTICAL in terms of IN GAME mechanics if we could simply rest whenever we want, and just had 75 cp deducted for doing so.

I disagree for one simple reason: I don't have to see the loading screen as much as you do, because I manage my resources wisely. I think I had been forced to go back for supplies maybe once in all that time I spent in game so far. So imposing YOUR penalty on ME is not IDENTICAL as you claim it to be.

[manageri]

It's also FACTUALLY true that you don't have to run to the inn when you use your brain a bit and manage your resources properly.

 

Beside the point. I talked about limits on the mechanics (and the lack thereof), you talk about choosing not to utilize the resting system to the fullest, voluntarily gimping your IN GAME performance in order to avoid OUT OF GAME tedium for the player. Everything I said stands.

[manageri]

You are right - rest limit is there to make it tedious for people who use rest a lot without making resting impossible. It's supposed to make people either suffer or start thinking and adapting by using smarter strategy than "I rest a lot and quickly go back to an inn for more supplies ad infinitum". That's the cost you're paying: the cost of your own time by trying to play the game the way it wasn't designed to. It also invalidates your claim, because you're the one trying to do something you're not supposed to and complain about it. You might not like the design, which is fine, but saying it's wrong is wrong in itself, because it's working properly.

...

I disagree for one simple reason: I don't have to see the loading screen as much as you do, because I manage my resources wisely. I think I had been forced to go back for supplies maybe once in all that time I spent in game so far. So imposing YOUR penalty on ME is not IDENTICAL as you claim it to be.

 

Which is ridicilous design because it has no in game consequences, adding zero challenge. And why stop with the rest system? Let's take it further so every time you play the game in a way the devs didn't intend, let's punish you, the player, in a different way. Say you rolled a party with 6 wizards. Well the devs COULD balance the game so wizards can't handle everything very easily, but hey, why bother, let's just give the player an extra 5 minutes to every loading screen for every wizard in the party above 2. Imagine if this is how games were designed.

 

Or maybe, if you equip every single character with only melee weapons, ignoring ranged weapons entirely and again doing something the devs didn't intend, well of course the perfect way to "balance" this is rolling a d100 after every fight, and if it comes up 100, PoE Immediately uninstalls itself, making the player waste time with a reinstall. Reasonable? Or ****ing retarded? This is EXACTLY the same as the current rest "limit", but more extreme. Wasting player time instead of balancing things IN GAME is an absurd design philosophy.

 

Now imagine someone requesting mods to remove these features and people on the forums accusing them of being lame ass cheaters. Priceless.

[Caerdon]

 

It's also FACTUALLY true that you don't have to run to the inn when you use your brain a bit and manage your resources properly.

 

Beside the point. I talked about limits on the mechanics (and the lack thereof), you talk about choosing not to utilize the resting system to the fullest, voluntarily gimping your IN GAME performance in order to avoid OUT OF GAME tedium for the player. Everything I said stands.

 

 

Yes, I do. And it's an easy choice. If the game allowed me to rest wherever I wanted with no in- or out-of-game cost so that I'd just have to impose limits on myself, then I might complain, because human mind is imperfect and easily tempted. But as it is, the game makes running back and forth sufficiently tedious, that I'm not tempted to rest spam (hell, I didn't do in in BG series either). Therefore I'm "forced" to play more tactically, and as a result, I end up enjoying the game more.

 

And yes, it's beside the point. Because you have no point. You keep going on and on about how the game doesn't put any limit to resting and how there's no in-game cost for resting. Sure, you're right, there isn't. No one cares, you can rest to your heart's desire if you want to - if you're willing to go through the tedium of doing so. And as you're complaining about that tedium, I assume you arent willing? But... that would mean you aren't going to rest spam, so... what was the problem again?

[Parsong]

It's also FACTUALLY true that you don't have to run to the inn when you use your brain a bit and manage your resources properly.

 

Use your brain, also known as control your overturned Cipher more often than your per-rest casters.  Sucks for anyone with a PC Wizard, who will wand most of the game and pretty much be denied use melee/tanking builds which require many spells per encounter.   Riveting design.

 

IE had it right.  Same goes for stealth design.  Some things you don't change.

 

Nonononono. Using console to rest is c̩̭̳̦̦̺̼̥̺h̬͕̻͉̺̗̖̫e̩͙̮͈̤̥̳̰a̗̳̣̺ͅt̼͈͙ị̙̜̝͔̥n͈͔͖͓̭̙̼g̞̳. Using a mod for the exact same thing is perfectly fine.

 

 

 

Just more convenient. Also, I consider neither are cheating.  As someone who beat PoTD, All it does is make the easy encounters quicker for those who run without a Cipher. Also it appears no one made that mod, no people PM'd me back and its not up on Nexus.  It appears as final release it stopped working.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Parsong

[Kal Adan]

Which is ridicilous design because it has no in game consequences, adding zero challenge. [...] Wasting player time instead of balancing things IN GAME is an absurd design philosophy.

Nobody is wasting your time. You're wasting your own time by doing what you do, which is going against the design philosophy instead of rethinking what you're doing and trying to do something else. Only fools keep making same mistakes over and over again, wondering why that doesn't work out.

 

As for lack of challenge. We could measure the challenge by checking how players progress in relation to usage of their camp supplies. Game can be challenging when you have to make choices and decide what to do with the limited supplies and spells you have. Game could be even more challenging if you would spend everything you have and be forced to fight enemies without said spells or abilities just because you didn't put as much thought in your battles as somebody else just to reach the point some other player did.

 

Now imagine someone requesting mods to remove these features and people on the forums accusing them of being lame ass cheaters. Priceless.

It's a single-player game. Whatever floats your boat is fine, but don't come here saying game is broken only because you want to play against it.

[Parsong]

 We could measure the challenge by checking how players progress in relation to usage of their camp supplies. Game can be challenging when you have to make choices and decide what to do with the limited supplies and spells you have.

 

 

You mean how much he's using his Cipher over his Wizard. Let's stop being vague please.  The game isn't hard, there is no secret strategies or tactics. There's only two reasons people would want a unlimited camp mod or IE resting mod, 

 

1. Less load screens on Solo.

 

2. Play his PC more often Wizard/Druid, rather than control Grieving Mother for 30+ hours.

 

 

Not because they couldn't understand some kind of epic strategy.  I hope people can stop bringing up lolskill just because someone wants to play their caster rather than wand, in a long game.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Parsong

[Caerdon]

Use your brain, also known as control your overturned Cipher more often than your per-rest casters.

You mean how much he's using his Cipher over his Wizard. Let's stop being vague please.

 

If that's the only way of managing resources you know, maybe you should tune the difficulty down a notch. I don't use ciphers because they're stupid.

[Parsong]

 

Use your brain, also known as control your overturned Cipher more often than your per-rest casters.

You mean how much he's using his Cipher over his Wizard. Let's stop being vague please.

 

If that's the only way of managing resources you know, maybe you should tune the difficulty down a notch. I don't use ciphers because they're stupid.

 

 

Still trolling with the lolskill crap?  I beat PoTD.  This thread is about fun and game mechanics, please stop bringing that garbage up. It's already been disproved many times in this thread.

 

But, Thanks for the tips Wand Master.

 

 

 

 

 

Avoiding using your spells more than any other CRPG, DAT RESOURCE.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Parsong

[PrimeJunta]

@Parsong you already made it clear you beat PotD by abusing a couple of broken spells. That's... not particularly awesome.

[Parsong]

@Parsong you already made it clear you beat PotD by abusing a couple of broken spells. That's... not particularly awesome.

 

Im 3/4th into my second playthrough without using them much.  

 

This game isn't that hard.  This is a game mechanic debate, can we stop the skill debate?  There isn't anything elite or special about spamming wand most of the time. It isn't some kind of mysterious strategy discovered by pro twitch gamers.....

 

Considering most people in this thread probably beat the vanilla game already, since there is no mod yet, the skill debate is even more insulting.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Parsong

[Badmojo]

Pretty much correct, the game is BORRING for wizards since your just auto attacking with your wand.  It is just a bad game design.  Limiting resting adds nothing.  Strategy?  Please, what a joke.  The game is NOT hard after a certain level, but it is boring, and some things have me scratching my head.  BG and others were way better for wizards than this mess.  I cannot help but feel whoever came up with this design just did not like wizards.

[durbal]

Resting needs a real limit and resting should have actual strategic consequences.  Unlimited resources in this game are its biggest downfall -- unlimited money, (essentially) unlimited XP, unlimited resting.

 

These all need to be changed.  The game loses fun when you can buy any item you want, rest as much as you want, and be maximum level 2/3 into the game.

 

The funniest thing is that resting more not only has no negative consequences, but it actually has positive ones -- more visitors selling items, more money from taxes, more item restocks at vendors, etc.  C'mon.

 

A similar thing happened in the Fallout series: in Fallout 1 the First Aid and Doctor skills mattered because you needed to heal up or fix injuries and move on before the Master completes his plan.  In Fallout 2, you could just rest as much as you wanted to heal and it made Doctor and First Aid completely pointless.  That's bad design.

Edited April 6, 2015 by durbal

[Parsong]

And btw, this was a simple thread for a group of people  asking for a camping mod. (Most of  us had already beat the game.) 

 

It was invaded by the CoolKids pretty much subtly insulting us and telling us stop asking for  a mod, and the Moderator had to change the topic.

[View619]

 

im playing solo on hard, its fun but i have to run back town every 3-4 fights, its stupid. i dont think i gon play anymore untill i can find somekind mod for this. does anyone know where i can find a mod like that.

 

Hit the ` button > type in: iroll20s > cheats are now enabled and you can now type in: rest

 

Use your best judgement on when you should use it to make the game a bit less of a pain in the ass, but still a challenge?

 

 

Nobody wants to "cheat" for what they believe should be a default feature. This was mentioned on page one, yet people are still complaining.

 

I'm still confused as to why people want a mod for something that they can easily do themselves in-game. So they can have unlimited rests without disabling steam achievements? Typing "iroll20s" breaks immersion? I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure that I know why people who have created mods haven't bothered sharing them.

Edited April 6, 2015 by View619

[Kal Adan]

You mean how much he's using his Cipher over his Wizard. Let's stop being vague please.

I am not using Cipher. I am using wizard and priest as an example (both practical and theoretical), classes that are highly related to rest mechanic.

 

The game isn't hard, there is no secret strategies or tactics. There's only two reasons people would want a unlimited camp mod or IE resting mod, 1. Less load screens on Solo.2. Play his PC more often Wizard/Druid, rather than control Grieving Mother for 30+ hours.

Firstly, if someone takes his time to resupply a lot then there is a problem somewhere. Secondly, you assume wizard and/or druid require more resting (thus leading to rest-spamming).

[Dongom]

Someone wants a mod so he can cast spells more often than use wand?


ERMAGOD RAGE!

[Badmojo]

Because some people want dark souls POE edition and insult people who do not like that style of play.

 

I would like the game to go at least back to BG level of resting at least, POE resting is just unfun, unnecessary, and flat out annoying.  There is no strategic value in it except adding tediumness to the game.  Its way more prevelant when you play a wizard, did anybody actually do a Q and A as only a wizard?  Can't really see anybody enjoying the wizard class with the current resting system in place and only spamming rods/wands most of the time.

[manageri]

 

 

It's also FACTUALLY true that you don't have to run to the inn when you use your brain a bit and manage your resources properly.

 

Beside the point. I talked about limits on the mechanics (and the lack thereof), you talk about choosing not to utilize the resting system to the fullest, voluntarily gimping your IN GAME performance in order to avoid OUT OF GAME tedium for the player. Everything I said stands.

 

 

Yes, I do. And it's an easy choice. If the game allowed me to rest wherever I wanted with no in- or out-of-game cost so that I'd just have to impose limits on myself, then I might complain, because human mind is imperfect and easily tempted. But as it is, the game makes running back and forth sufficiently tedious, that I'm not tempted to rest spam (hell, I didn't do in in BG series either). Therefore I'm "forced" to play more tactically, and as a result, I end up enjoying the game more.

 

As long as you admit that this has nothing to do with adding challenge to the game, and is simply a voluntary self-gimping, there's nothing more to say. Gimp yourself if you want but don't pretend the game in any way "forces" this.

 

And yes, it's beside the point. Because you have no point. You keep going on and on about how the game doesn't put any limit to resting and how there's no in-game cost for resting.

 

Hilariously, the very next sentence you write after saying I have no point IS my point. No in game cost = resting is limitless to anyone who will endure the tedium of the inn walk. Devs saying "lets bore the **** out of the player if they don't play our way" is absurd. If this isn't obvious to you then I pity you.

 

 

Sure, you're right, there isn't. No one cares, you can rest to your heart's desire if you want to - if you're willing to go through the tedium of doing so. And as you're complaining about that tedium, I assume you arent willing? But... that would mean you aren't going to rest spam, so... what was the problem again?

 

The problem is that when the game DOES actually present a challenge, which, based on the reports I've seen of PotD's easiness (which I've yet to test myself as I'm waiting for more patches) is probably only going to mean doing PotD + trial of iron, it will be mandatory for anyone who wishes to maximize their chances of success to rest spam. Since the only penalty for doing so is boring the player, this will make the game boring, as in bad.

 

You ever played XCOM in ironman mode? Imagine how bad that would be if you could spend like 20 turns running all your guys to some point really far away from the aliens to recover all their abilities and hp for some nonsense "cost" like 2 credits. Now tell me such a mechanic would not make you feel forced to use it, and if your poker face is still strong, tell me it wouldn't make the game tedious as hell.

 

Dragon age got it right with eliminating this antiquated resting concept entirely. I sincerely hope the devs get their **** together for PoE 2 and design abilities as per encounter only.