Limerick edit thread

[Ashen Rohk]

Let's just remember that the limerick is the story of a man who gets blind drunk, goes to bed with someone he believes to be a woman and it turns out that he went to bed with a man.

 

Beer goggles or transphobia?

[distant_worlds]

I'm not sure wether to laugh or cry when I see people using the "SJW" acronym. For one, it only shows how fast people are to grab on to propaganda. Secondly, it makes me wonder if they ever consider how much ****tier their lives would be without this horrible horrible concept known as social justice.

You are misunderstanding the acronym "SJW".  It's ironic.  It's designed to point out the absurdity of the behavior in question.  It's about people who proclaim to be about social justice, but behave in ways completely contrary to that goal.  By seeing themselves as warriors, they put aside the normal rules of civil discourse, and instead we get things like "there are no bad tactics, only bad targets".  Lying and slander are considered perfectly acceptable, as long as they further the "goal".  Being racist and sexist towards whites and men is perfectly fine to them, since they're the "enemy".  We have incidents where they will simply make up rape allegations or post rape threats against themselves, because it furthers the "narrative".  All of these warrior tactics, of course, undermine the very notion of "social justice".   Wars are never just.  A war may be fought out of necessity, but the war itself is never just.  Those harmed in war rarely deserve it.

 

By labeling someone as "SJW", you are pointing out the intrinsic contradiction in their behavior.

[Arouet]

 

I'm not sure wether to laugh or cry when I see people using the "SJW" acronym. For one, it only shows how fast people are to grab on to propaganda. Secondly, it makes me wonder if they ever consider how much ****tier their lives would be without this horrible horrible concept known as social justice.

 

 

"Social Justice" began as the name of an anti-semite publication in the 1920s US. Coming from a family with no shortage of Jewish ancestors, I can say my life would be a lot better without it.

That's a bald faced lie. It was first used by a Jesuit during the 1848 revolutions.

 

And it's not the only bald faced lie being thrown around in this thread.

[Darkeus]

 

Yay, caving in to the demands of those that most likely didn't even buy the game.

??? but I bought it a year ago? and I'm sure many other "sjw" people also bought it and maybe even backed it during the original kickstarter campaign. and even more people will buy the game now that they know Obsidian listens to their fans.

 

You are just part of the problem in the industry. You didn't do anything special except the industry worse....

[Mungri]

The majority of fans were opposed to changing / removing the limerick.

 

The people that wanted it removed were siding with this person:

 

[Broadcaster]

I'm going to editorialize for just a moment. First of all, I don't see every post. If you report something from a member who doesn't need approval, I'm more likely to see it. ...But I think it's important to be charitable with one another. Only report things that rise to a reportable offense. That line will differ between members, but there is a line. The upshot, however, is that I mostly see posts by new (or newly posting) members of the forum. When I've gone through quickly, I've seen that most of the posts are actually pretty respectful even if clearly typed with some heat and passion. Fair enough.

 

Remember, after this game is done, we're going to have more games and hopefully a lot more from Obsidian. The person fighting on the 'other side' right now might very well be the person backing your side in the next big fight. Don't let this become an all out war. If you get to where you're seeing red, take a break. Look at other threads. Play the game. Talk to the spouse. Play with the kids. Have a bite to eat (or a beer if you're of age and so inclined). Then, when you're not so heavily invested, come back and rejoin the discussion.

 

Anyhow, I was originally surprised at how rancorous people were on this issue, but now I'm surprised that it has really actually remained pretty civil all things considered. Congrats, Obsidz forumites! Good for you!

 

Key quote here: "we're going to have more games and hopefully a lot more from Obsidian."

 

Only if people BUY said games - and considering the lack of SPINE being displayed today ... don't be surprised if people find their entertainment from companies that make games for ADULTS and who actually respect their customer base. 

 

And considering that "vetted" line from Feargus .. to quote Gabe Newell: "'Don't ever, ever try to lie to the internet - because they will catch you. They will de-construct your spin. They will remember everything you ever say for eternity.'

 

Mull that over for a little bit, eh?

[Cantousent]

 

stuff I said.

I hate to say this but it really doesn't make me want to play the game I backed anymore. Or any of them.

 

I get you, Darkeus. I can't really comment on the actual argument itself, but I would just say this: if you enjoyed the game before you heard about the whole limerick issue, what difference will it really make?

 

I'm not siding with anyone. I don't feel it's responsible as a moderator, even though I'm not employed by Obsdian. After all, when I volunteered, I accepted a certain standard and, unless it's a matter of principle, I'm going to keep my political opinions out of it.

 

So, non politically, all I'm saying is that the person who lodged the complain would have scored two victories if she managed to impact the game *and* destroyed your enjoyment of it. The optional text staying the same or not has virtually no impact on the product as a game. If you like it, play it and think of it as a big raspberry to the person who lodged the complaint. ...and then mod the limerick back in if you so choose. :Cant's Dutch uncle icon: I meant no offense to the Dutch with that icon.

[Darkeus]

 

 

There are backers that were in favor of this, who wanted this. What makes your demands more important than theirs? And how is what they're doing censorship but what you're threatening not?

 

Funny thing is no 'SJWs' called for a boycott. Just you. They wanted to talk to the devs, and they did.

Wrong: Feminist Frequency member called for such a boycott.  But hey... have fun we now life in a world in which people can censor and mute other people through twitter because they do not like things.

 

And you know what. It is really funny that a pizzeria in Indiana who got threaten by these people know has raised almost 1 million to support them. Talk about backlash.

 

 

If it's true that "we now live in a world in which people can censor and mute other people through twitter" then how is... this... still a thing? Surely the dreaded SJWs would've silenced the whole lot of you by now through their nefarious machinations/prodigious Twitter use.

 

They are not done yet. Look at the post above mine, This is who you support. Feel good?

[DustOff]

Absolutely infuriating. I bought this game because I wanted to support Obsidian after all the crap they've been through, like getting screwed out of a bonus because F:NV's metacritic score wasn't high enough, because they made great, if buggy, games. But if they're just going to kowtow to a bunch of hateful bigots who think a limerick which doesn't even explicitly target transsexuals is wrong but "joking" about killing all men is perfectly fine (and they sure seem to "joke" about it a lot), then I don't think I'll be doing business with them in the future.

 

I just hope they understand that this never ends. You will never satisfy them because all they want is an excuse to be angry, and every time you bend over for them you just lose more of the people who actually enjoy your products.

[Arouet]

Lol she was taunting Gamergaters calling her slurs. Not the same thing.

[Vasid]

hateful white male agenda

 

Am I on Tumblr right now?

 

In no way was that poem "transphobic", if anything it was mildly homophobic, but was much more "ALCHOLICPHOBIC" or whatever people like you would call it.

 

You need to get a thicker skin, and stop trying to censor everyone around you.

 

Or maybe just leave your politics at home while reading a joke.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Vasid

[Namutree]

The backer consented to the change. All is well far as I'm concerned.

[Ekaros]

The chasm between Japanese devs and western ones widens every day. Hideki Kamiya would've laughed and blocked this hate-mongering tranny lunatic right away. When SJW went after Hideo Kojima over Quiet he responded with a frankly chilling remark about how they would be ashamed of themselves by the time MGSV came out and said nothing else on the matter. Why do western devs always capitulate right away whenever a professional victim comes screeching to their door?

 

Thankfully I think there is still sensible developers in Europe. At least part of USA scene seems to be lost to corruption and other issues... Then again AAA knows their market and couldn't care less about these people...

[LiveSpartan235]

My God. You all sound like some snobbish customer who indignantly declares they'll never, ever support Starbucks because someone forgot to put whipped cream in their drink -- as if their lack of support or immature foot stomping should be noted around the world despite the fact that it's nonsensical garbage.

 

Get over it and stop acting like entitled brats. The poem was transphobic. It was homophobic. And you're right -- it wasn't a "big deal." So why can't it just be changed? It doesn't affect you. It doesn't affect the integrity of the game. There wasn't a drop in the game's quality. This wasn't a hurried patch that tarnished the balance or awkwardly rewrote the story. It was a poem that was offensive towards a group that has been systematically put down and explicitly targeted by cruelty and inhumane acts. Something tells me -- maybe the fact that everyone here has a brash, unfounded sense of entitlement and outright pathetic propensity to think their hateful white male agenda is more important than others' safety and comfort -- that this change isn't going to influence your life or your decisions in any particular way. But the poem's hurtful message -- purposeful or not -- certainly could have its affect on a young trans person or someone struggling with any degree of fluidity in their gender or sexuality. On a Leelah Alcorn whose life is surrounded by hate directed at trans and gay people.

 

Is it small? Yes. But people have every right to be upset about the message the poem conveyed. 

 

And Jesus Christ, it's a goddamn limerick. The fact that you're up in arms about preserving a few transphobic lines is very telling of the gaming community's propensity for things like the miserably hateful storm that is #gamergate.

 

If you want to protest something, get off your high horse and find something to protest for that matters. You know -- like fighting for the human rights of people who are treated like subhuman trash by our society.

WTH it wasn't transphobic or homophobic where does it say the person was trans and why is it homophobic and I'm gay and I didn't find anything homophobic about it.

[BG2megamodder]

So far I"m seeing al ot of posts of people worried about censorship or how now Obsidian will now always have to give into social media bullies. On the other side I see a lot more "basement dwellers" "entitled gamers" etc. I'm not offended by these terms it's just interesting to see the two sides of the discussion one concered about creative freedom and the other pushing a tied old narrative that's been played out time and again.

 

Surely the dreaded SJWs would've silenced the whole lot of you by now through their nefarious machinations/prodigious Twitter use.

 

 

Look up the block bot which was created when SJW's created a scism in the Athism community. Everyone they see that they disagree with gets on that inculding biolgoists scientists etc. It's a long process a lot of people in the world

[Darkeus]

Oh please.... OH so joking is okay? Taunting is okay??

Hypocrite....

[Darji]

 

 

stuff I said.

I hate to say this but it really doesn't make me want to play the game I backed anymore. Or any of them.

 

I get you, Darkeus. I can't really comment on the actual argument itself, but I would just say this: if you enjoyed the game before you heard about the whole limerick issue, what difference will it really make?

 

I'm not siding with anyone. I don't feel it's responsible as a moderator, even though I'm not employed by Obsdian. After all, when I volunteered, I accepted a certain standard and, unless it's a matter of principle, I'm going to keep my political opinions out of it.

 

So, non politically, all I'm saying is that the person who lodged the complain would have scored two victories if she managed to impact the game *and* destroyed your enjoyment of it. The optional text staying the same or not has virtually no impact on the product as a game. If you like it, play it and think of it as a big raspberry to the person who lodged the complaint. ...and then mod the limerick back in if you so choose. :Cant's Dutch uncle icon: I meant no offense to the Dutch with that icon.

 

It is not about the limerick it is about the principle nothing else. Again I personally live in Germany in which a lot of games gets censored. Especially games with Nazi symbols etc.  And I also boycott these studios or games as well when I can not play the uncensored version.  No matter what is being censored. And here it is the same. I always loved Obsidian games but there is one thing I love much more than video games and that is freedom of free speech and expression. That is also the reason why i never could played the new Wolfenstein game even I wanted too....

Edited April 3, 2015 by Darji

[deuxhero]

 

 

I'm not sure wether to laugh or cry when I see people using the "SJW" acronym. For one, it only shows how fast people are to grab on to propaganda. Secondly, it makes me wonder if they ever consider how much ****tier their lives would be without this horrible horrible concept known as social justice.

 

"Social Justice" began as the name of an anti-semite publication in the 1920s US. Coming from a family with no shortage of Jewish ancestors, I can say my life would be a lot better without it.

That's a bald faced lie. It was first used by a Jesuit during the 1848 revolutions.

 

And it's not the only bald faced lie being thrown around in this thread.

 

 

So it's actually associated with the violent and chaotic "reign of terror" where people were murdered daily for mere association, birth or opinion? Much better!

Edited April 3, 2015 by deuxhero

[aenemic]

The majority of fans were opposed to changing / removing the limerick.

 

The people that wanted it removed were siding with this person:

 

 

I think the majority of fans were busy playing the game and not getting worked up over something that doesn't affect them in the slightest. But if you have actual hard numbers, go ahead and post them.

 

And I certainly am not "siding" with that person. I appreciate Obsidian being mature and thoughtful about the whole thing. And I doubt Obsidian are "siding" with anyone, they're making a decision on what content they want in their game. Which is completely within their right.

[Verd254]

The backer consented to the change. All is well far as I'm concerned.

 

Under what terms did he consent though? Was he told he could change it or have it removed entirely? That's an ultimatum if so. I do like the knew one though. It's the next best thing other than keeping the original.

[Pablius]

Cowards, you can take your game, I won´t touch it anymore nor back nor buy anything from you again

[Mungri]

Thats apparantly the person that started this entire SJW rant so yes you are agreeing with it if you wanted the limerick removed.

[Nurse Aenima]

The is the person who started all this is now going a victory lap on twitter http://i.imgur.com/B9SPyn5.png

 

I can't believe Obsidian would cave to this person and her mindless followers. Good luck catering to your new audience of SJWs Obsidian your gonna need it.

 

Truly disgusting. On the funny side of things I'm 100% sure their new audience will still prefer the BiowarEA abomination of games, if they even play the games in the first place. 

[Legbiter]

Yay, caving in to the demands of those that most likely didn't even buy the game.

 

Oh it's much worse. It's caving in to the demands of a twitter tranny who likes to to tweet disgusting genocidal fantasies. Yet zealously expects others to live by a strict moral standard he would never, not even for a split second, apply to himself. I mean the thought would just never register.

[Darkeus]

 

 

stuff I said.

I hate to say this but it really doesn't make me want to play the game I backed anymore. Or any of them.

 

I get you, Darkeus. I can't really comment on the actual argument itself, but I would just say this: if you enjoyed the game before you heard about the whole limerick issue, what difference will it really make?

 

I'm not siding with anyone. I don't feel it's responsible as a moderator, even though I'm not employed by Obsdian. After all, when I volunteered, I accepted a certain standard and, unless it's a matter of principle, I'm going to keep my political opinions out of it.

 

So, non politically, all I'm saying is that the person who lodged the complain would have scored two victories if she managed to impact the game *and* destroyed your enjoyment of it. The optional text staying the same or not has virtually no impact on the product as a game. If you like it, play it and think of it as a big raspberry to the person who lodged the complaint. ...and then mod the limerick back in if you so choose. :Cant's Dutch uncle icon: I meant no offense to the Dutch with that icon.

 

The problem is, now they have taken their inch. Soon they will want their mile from Obsidian and it is coming from their ass. They just don't realize what they have done to their company.

 

Now one side is mad and will boycott. They other side get a victory and helps to finish off Obsidian. Nobody wins and the industry is WORSE for it. 

 

There was no problem with the limmerick. It is the principle of the matter. As many have said, a Japanese Developer would have laughed them off Twitter. But no, Obsidian caves at the first sign of trouble? Spineless. And how can I support a developer that is spineless? 

 

A developer I love. Then again, I dumped Bioware for less...