Fog of War Options, Please?

[Asmodean-]

Hey Obsidian,

 

Is there any chance of you adding some options for the Fog of War, please?. I mean, there's a whole page of options(21 options for it, in fact) for pausing the game ... and 0 for the FoW.

 

Firstly, when preordering, I was under the notion that I'd be able to at least disable the Fog, by means of the console, but that's not a viable option - because it doesn't work correctly, and only glitches out the fog every time you enter/exit a building, or area, or anything, really.

 

I'm personally not a big fan of FoW in general, but the FoW in this game has gone a bit overboard, imo. It persists in-game, and on the map even after you've explored the whole area, etc.

 

A few suggestions;

• Option to enable the FoW for undiscovered areas only - once they've been explored, the fog is removed. (same with the map)
• Option to adjust the start radius of the fog - so it's not starting 4 metres around your party.
• Option to enable the fog for dungeons only, or at least disable it for towns/cities.
• Option toggle to enable, or disable the fog.

 

Or, failing that - can you at least resolve the console command, so that it's actually useful, please.

 

Thank you.

 

 

[sparklecat]

If you're seeing FoW in places you've been through already, that's a bug.

[Asmodean-]

I didn't mean the complete black (0.0) fog, but the just about black (0.1) fog that persists after exploration. Not to mention, the map is almost eligible, because of it, also.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Asmodean-

[zultor]

Grey (not total black) for areas you have been but aren't currently able to see is part of many FOW implementations and isn't a bug.   It is meant to indicate that you have been in that area as well as show terrain, etc.    There are wandering mobs so if they had the "turn off FOW for explored areas" that would affect the difficulty, etc.    

 

In fact all of the options you suggest would make the game easier which isn't what options are usually used for.    The "21 options" for effecting turns are there to reduce micro-management.   What you suggest would allow you to see all mobs on the map, how to sneak around areas in safety, etc which isn't offering an assist to the player but effectively making the game easier (way easier in terms of sneaking, etc).

[Asmodean-]

You're arguement makes little sense. "You're suggested option makes the game easier". All of the game's options will make the game subjectively easier. The pausing options make the game easier for the people who want various auto-pause triggers. The "Game" option almost all affect difficulty, in some way.

 

My reasoning for wanting some Fog of War options has nothing to do with difficulty. I simply want to be able to see the bloody game ;p without most of my screenspace consumed by blackness, to admire the nice scenery, etc (albeit, blurry scenery, because of the interpolation zoomng problems, unfortunately).

 

I can appreciate the FoW for dungeons, but towns, and cities? it looks ridiculous, to me, during the  middle of day.

 

I'm requesting valid options, not compulsory core changes. So I don't see what your objection is about..

 

You're simply being bias, because you like the FoW.

[Vanant]

pausing options change how you face a specific situation, but FoW options would change the situation itself, by giving you additional information. It´s a gameplay alteration, and I´m pretty sure it won´t be modified.

[zultor]

You're arguement makes little sense. "You're suggested option makes the game easier". All of the game's options will make the game subjectively easier. The pausing options make the game easier for the people who want various auto-pause triggers. The "Game" option almost all affect difficulty, in some way.

 

My reasoning for wanting some Fog of War options has nothing to do with difficulty. I simply want to be able to see the bloody game ;p without most of my screenspace consumed by blackness, to admire the nice scenery, etc (albeit, blurry scenery, because of the interpolation zoomng problems, unfortunately).

 

I can appreciate the FoW for dungeons, but towns, and cities? it looks ridiculous, to me, during the  middle of day.

 

I'm requesting valid options, not compulsory core changes. So I don't see what your objection is about..

 

You're simply being bias, because you like the FoW.

 

I think you missed my point and are stuck trying to divine what I like or don't like.    Nowhere did I say I liked FOW and to call my point of view biased is silly.

 

My main point is that the turn options, since those are the ones you originally referenced, are assists so that the player can do things more easily.    They don't offer the player the ability to do things that they couldn't do without them.    Being able to "turn off FOW", which was one of your suggestions, is a huge "easy button" for the game.    You would be able to see where all the mobs are, how many there are, what type etc.    This would break the balance of the game and thus probably cause the devs to compensate in other ways which would negatively effect the game for people who don't use it.

 

If what you want is to see the "nice scenery" what you could ask for is an ability to turn off the grayed-out FOW but not disable the mechanic.   This would allow you to see everything in its prettiest form but still keep the "you can't see changes/mobs" aspect.   Of course the negative would be you lose the ability to know where you have been but since it is an option "buyer beware".

[Asmodean-]

I think you missed my point. Nowhere have I said, that I want to be able to uncover a map, before it has been explored. Nor have I said that I wanted to be able to preemptively see encounters, or cheat, or whatever.

 

 

 

 

If what you want is to see the "nice scenery" what you could ask for is an ability to turn off the grayed-out FOW but not disable the mechanic.   This would allow you to see everything in its prettiest form but still keep the "you can't see changes/mobs" aspect.   Of course the negative would be you lose the ability to know where you have been but since it is an option "buyer beware".

 

 

I did suggested that, as one of the options. I listed multiple, in case they couldn't implement one. Simply a normal FoW, that is removed as you oncover the map. Not simply a lesser one that persists even after you've oncovered the entire thing.
 

 

....

 

A few suggestions;

• Option to enable the FoW for undiscovered areas only - once they've been explored, the fog is removed. (same with the map)

 

My suggestions are purely cosmetic, before the other min-maxer, stats/functionality crowds come looking for my head.
 

Edited April 1, 2015 by Asmodean-

[Sancus]

I agree. The fog of war is really overdone in outdoor areas.

[Asmodean-]

Well, at least somebody agrees. The artists went and did a great job on the beautiful areas, and then they got covered in blackness. It's like going into an art gallery, and seeing a painting you really like, and asking to buy it. Then the guy says "one moment, and I'll throw a tin of black paint over it, before we sell it to you" ;p

 

I'm not requesting that this change be forced on anyone, I'm simply requesting some options for it. For the people, like myself, that can't fully enjoy the game with this.

 

I'd like to stress, that I'm not trying to cheat, or exploit the game. I believe it ruins the fun. I simple don't like the very oppressive, persistant FoW, that relentlessly surrounds your party the entire time.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Asmodean-

[Katarack21]

The grey fog is to indicate that you've been there but aren't currently within sight of that location. So you know that tree is there but can't see if there is an enemy there. It's meant for Obsidian to use for strategic and tactical enemy placement.

[Asmodean-]

People like throwing the 'strategic and tactical' card around a lot. But, seeing as I'm scouting/sneaking everywhere anyway - I always detect enemies before they do me, so it makes little difference. Also mentioning - is that not what the original 0.0 black fog is for?. You've already explored the area, so I don't see what the problem is.

 

I personally play on normal, because I'm mostly interested in the story, and such. But, I don't see why anyone would oppose this change. You might as well say "don't add any difficulty levels other than Path of the Damned". Because adding options for it, would lower my own enjoyment, even though they have no effect on me.

 

Plus, I'm asking for the options for asthetic purposes, to enjoy the game's visuals unhindered - not for strategic advantage. Or to cheese the game, or anything.

 

I'm trying to convey this in every post lol. I'm only asking for cosmetic options. they can still hide enemies outside the range, or whatnot, if they like. =)

Edited April 5, 2015 by Asmodean-

[Kimuji]

I guess they could add a cheat code on the console for that, but I wouldn't recommend putting it in the option menu. And there are probably more pressing issues than this.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Kimuji

[Asmodean-]

There is a console command for it. It's the only Fog related thing provided, and it doesn't work, as I mention in the OP.  I also gave an example in this thread previously.

 

This apparently, has already been reported during the beta, here. I know that they might consider the NoFog bug, not a priority at all, but considering that's literally the only function of that command, and it doesn't work.. lol.

 

Even though the command is a bit unsavoury, given that it uncovers the map before exploring it. I'd gladly take that over the blackness We're stuck with currently. Obviously, it would be better if it ignored the map, though.

 

---

Edit: I never though, that being able to see in a game, would be considered such a heinous, cheaty thing. I've no interest in cheats. I'm strictly interested in enjoying the game visually. This fog business lol.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Asmodean-

[hackmed]

I agree with you OP, the 'explored' fog of war is very intensive. I would be happy with an option to turn down the intensity - either so that it's only very slightly darker than the visible area, or not at all darker.

 

If 'not at all darker' I still want mobs hidden as they would be normally. Like the OP, it's purely a cosmetic request.

[Sinnorfin]

I bring this topic up from seamingly being dead, but let me justify it by examining this feature a bit and hoping that future titles will make better use of visibility of the characters,

I like this game very much, and i think it deserves better than be left behind a curtain of darkness obscuring most of the environmental art, and actually hindering tactical gameplay more than serving it.
I for one think the gray layer is completely unneeded, the only purpose i see for its existence are the few sneaking sections of the game, where there are patrols moving, but even there, its dissapperance wouldnt take away anything from the experience as it is highly unlikely the party will be much affected by areas that were previously explored.

The level design hardly calls for the grey fog. It's disapperance would only make the game more fun. Sneaking across Raedric's hold? Being unable to scout out patrol routes? Why not let you see those patrol routes but perhaps make them tighter, so that only characters with high skill of sneaking can make it? Remember that a roleplaying game should allways put the emphasis on the controlled character's skills rather than the player's skills, so these situations should be a test for your characters that you can play through not a metagame for the player to reload several times memorizing patrol routes and adjusting accordingly.

The more expensive solution to this problem would be to separate maps into areas of visibility. For each of these areas of visibility assign areas to be uncovered from fog if a PC is standing there.
Imagine a long corridor , which has a hole in it's wall, and beyond the wall, a small tunnel that leads to a huge cavern with fantastic giant rock formations and carvings.
When you are in the corridor you can see all it's length, when in the little tunnel you see all of the little tunnel, a little slice from the corridor and a slice from the cavern, when stepping out into the cavern, the whole cavern gets out of fog.  It lends to much better gameplay, making it meaningful to leave a character in a certain place (for example in a vantage point so the field below is scouted, or a doorway so you see the patrol coming in time )

[Cantousent]

There's nothing wrong at all with reviving an old thread.  In fact, it's actually quite good that you did a search and used a thread that was already started.  Some people have *no kidding* reported posts for 'thread necromancy,' which I find frustrating since more people should use the search function, so good job!

 

As for the idea of different fields of view and scouting, it sounds nifty, but it also sounds, as you say, expensive.  Wouldn't that require a lot of work to redo?  Is it something better considered for the sequel rather than this game?  ...And that's an honest question since I don't really know.  I do think playing with things like the FoW could enhance the game.  For my part, I don't mind the FoW in PoE, but just because I'm okay with something as is doesn't mean it can't be improved.

[davionic]

Gonna bump this one back up. It frustrates me greatly that this request has been made for over a year across many, many places on obsidian and reddit, yet the developers have either completely ignored or completely failed to communicate with the community to implement something so simple as an option saying "enable explored fog of war: yes/no".

 

I have found countless posts around the internet from people who completely stop playing because of explored fog of war. I've played the game for a few hours on a friend's copy, and I can safely say that i will never purchase a copy unless the change is made, but I will buy it the second it is made. I'm sure enough people agree with me.

 

I'm aware that fog of war was lightened with one patch, but WHY is there not an option to remove? It would be purely cosmetic. All unexplored areas still black, so there's no "strategic & tactical" advantage anyway. I can see a tree across my entire yard which is much longer than POE's circle of vision, and nope, the tree's not dark...

[Cantousent]

The only response I would have, davionic, and I say this without any rancor, is that a lot of folks present issues like these as being small fixes that, if implemented the way the member suggests, would result in huge benefits.  I personally don't think that sales will suddenly skyrocket because Obsidz implements fog of war in the manner you would prefer.

 

Your other points about how fog of war works in real life is pretty well taken, although I would go even *further* than you and say that having completely black areas is not realistic.  I do a lot of hiking and the idea that I can't see *anything* in a given area just because I haven't stepped foot within an arbitrary circle is silly.  ...But that's the sort of compromise we make for game balance.

 

Anyhow, good luck with your cause.  It clearly vexes and you and, if there's some easy way to fix it, I hope you get what you want.

[Fenixp]

Obsidian is actually extremely receptive to input of people playing their game and given how easy removal of FoW has got to be, we can assume that they quite simply do not wish to remove it. While I'm all for options and don't see any reason to not have this particular one included in the game, at the end of the day, it's Obsidian calling the shots and as ridiculous as it might sound, if you prefer games without fog of war, you're quite simply not the target audience and are not expected to buy the game in the first place.

 

As for people giving up on the game because of FoW - it was never a secret that fog is in the game. You could see it in numerous youtube videos around the net, as well as in games Pillars of Eternity is inspired by, those based on Infinity Engine, so if FoW is such a big deal, researching it before purchase is a good idea (which you did, so it's all good)

 

At the end of the day, removal of FoW changes both the game's ambiance and its difficulty. If Obsidian feels removing it would make the product different from what they want it to be, they're in full right to keep it in game.

[davionic]

But i've already explored my yard Just to clarify, I don't mean this post as a retort to yours, but to strengthen my first post. Thanks for the quick reply!

 

I just feel it would not take a huge effort for this change to occur, and profits should not be the motive for something so easy and so desired by the community. They should just knock it out real quick.. I mean c'mon.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/3g0ynm/is_fog_of_war_still_the_same_as_in_the_original/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/291650/discussions/0/618458030674611639/

http://www.gog.com/forum/pillars_of_eternity/fog_of_war_options

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/30rg5i/why_is_the_area_map_so_dark/

 

All these pages were within the first half of the first page of google results when you look up the issue. It's truly a widespread desire from a huge number of players. Also, it wouldn't kill obsidian to give a few developers the job of glancing at the forums once a day.

 

 

More patches to come, though. Fingers crossed!!

[davionic]

At the end of the day, removal of FoW changes both the game's ambiance and its difficulty. If Obsidian feels removing it would make the product different from what they want it to be, they're in full right to keep it in game.

 

I know all that, but my desires are still burning! If only the modding community would step up, or I knew how to do it.. Sadly I am too addicted to video games

[Zenbane]

But i've already explored my yard Just to clarify, I don't mean this post as a retort to yours, but to strengthen my first post. Thanks for the quick reply!

 

I just feel it would not take a huge effort for this change to occur, and profits should not be the motive for something so easy and so desired by the community. They should just knock it out real quick.. I mean c'mon.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/3g0ynm/is_fog_of_war_still_the_same_as_in_the_original/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/291650/discussions/0/618458030674611639/

http://www.gog.com/forum/pillars_of_eternity/fog_of_war_options

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/30rg5i/why_is_the_area_map_so_dark/

 

All these pages were within the first half of the first page of google results when you look up the issue. It's truly a widespread desire from a huge number of players. Also, it wouldn't kill obsidian to give a few developers the job of glancing at the forums once a day.

 

 

More patches to come, though. Fingers crossed!!

 

The developers do glance at the forums often, and even take part in active discussion. Just because some of you are ignored (and rightfully so) doesn't mean the developers aren't doing their civic duty. It's impossible to please everyone, and the OP of this thread presented this issue quite terribly.

 

Example of dev's actively responding to forum discussion and game needs: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82857-300-patch-teased-by-josh-on-sa/?p=1753672

Edited November 28, 2015 by Zenbane

[Grom56]

I've read over this thread and it seems to me that the main point of the OP's post as well as Davionic's keeps getting missed.   Everyone keeps talking about how FoW  helps with tactics and such, this maybe true, however, folks miss the fact that we are dealing with TWO types of FoW here.  Only one type of FoW is the problem.  This being the grey covering the map AFTER you have opened the map by walking it's ground and besting it's monsters.  PoE has no wandering monsters...  Once you have cleared an area it stays cleared.  This being the case, of what use is this hazy grey FoW?  There is no monster waiting to jump out from behind a tree in any area that you have already cleared of said monsters.  The main black cloud FoW is not a issue, it's needed and it add much to the game, but, once a map is cleared why can't I rid myself of that odd grey mist that follows me around everywhere and be able to finally enjoy the wonder that is PoE??

 

That's the main issue as I read it.   Leave the main black FoW  alone, but give us an option to turn of the weird gray fog that follows us around like a love sick ghost...

Edited November 30, 2015 by Grom56

[Oralaina]

I've read over this thread and it seems to me that the main point of the OP's post as well as Davionic's keeps getting missed.   Everyone keeps talking about how FoW  helps with tactics and such, this maybe true, however, folks miss the fact that we are dealing with TWO types of FoW here.  Only one type of FoW is the problem.  This being the grey covering the map AFTER you have opened the map by walking it's ground and besting it's monsters.  PoE has no wandering monsters...  Once you have cleared an area it stays cleared.  This being the case, of what use is this hazy grey FoW?  There is no monster waiting to jump out from behind a tree in any area that you have already cleared of said monsters.  The main black cloud FoW is not a issue, it's needed and it add much to the game, but, once a map is cleared why can't I rid myself of that odd grey mist that follows me around everywhere and be able to finally enjoy the wonder that is PoE??

 

That's the main issue as I read it.   Leave the main black FoW  alone, but give us an option to turn of the weird gray fog that follows us around like a love sick ghost...

 

Agreed.  I actually wouldn't ask for this if the console command really worked "properly" (it doesn't - it still glitches out).  I wouldn't report a console command that's not working "right" as a bug though.

 

I'm perfectly fine with black FoW until I've visited an area on the map.  After that, I really would prefer that there wasn't ANY FoW.  Admittedly, if this game had continuing area-refresh, new wandering monsters and so on, again I wouldn't ask for it.  But the game doesn't refresh areas, and doesn't provide refreshed wandering monsters either.  So seems as if they could offer an option to turn off the leftover FoW....