sparklecat Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 transphobic? Is that a word? does it mean a phobia of transgender people? because I think I have that. Not in a cognitive way, i mean, to each their own, but when I see and talk with a transgender person I have a visceral repulsion and something deep down is informing me that the entire situation is unhealthy and I should try to find a way to politely remove myself from the situation. I'm not intolerant if I understand something, yet find it to be repulsive. Uh, congratulations on your self-realisation of your transphobia? 2
Rui Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 Please don't remove anything -phobic until an informed and mature discussion is carried out with a panel of diverse speakers on the subject at hand. Tired of "the uncultured mass", whose difference from patrimony destroyers is getting recognition on yet another shady part of internet. Who entitled you to carry your opinion as a preposition of truth? It's a disservice to genuine free thinkers that provoke and foster informed discussions on the matter.
complexmath Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 I keep seeing threads about this but i got no content of reference about it, because i haven't gotten to play the game yet. -Just another gamer stuck in character creation stage It's a joke in one of the backer epitaphs. Which, being backer content, I imagine can't be removed without backer consent. Fortunately, it sounds like that conversation has already happened, so perhaps this will change in the next patch. And for those saying the devs have better things to spend their time on, making this change would take literally 2 minutes. There wouldn't be any impact on bug fixes.
Valsuelm Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 I keep seeing threads about this but i got no content of reference about it, because i haven't gotten to play the game yet. -Just another gamer stuck in character creation stage I feel your character creation pain. If you're actually interested in reading up on all the madness, here's the primary thread on the subject: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/73243-memorials-problem/
TheHarpoMarxist Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) I'm completely serious, and you don't get to tell me how I should or shouldn't react to something. My reactions are my own. If the limerick doesn't bother you, great. No need for you to comment here at all then. To me, the limerick completely normalizes homophobia and transphobia. For people who have to live with that garbage day in and day out, the last place you'd want to see it is in an otherwise thoughtful game. As it is a largely irrelevent part of the game itself, I'm shocked that people seem so offended by the suggestion that removing it would be best. Even the person who wrote is apparently fine with it being removed, apparently. Edited April 1, 2015 by TheHarpoMarxist 2
Halsy Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from being offended. Learn to cope already. You know who else hates freedom? The terrorists. You're not a terrorist are you? Edited April 1, 2015 by Halsy 1 Midget soothsayer robs bank. Small medium at large!
Valsuelm Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) transphobic? Is that a word? does it mean a phobia of transgender people? because I think I have that. Not in a cognitive way, i mean, to each their own, but when I see and talk with a transgender person I have a visceral repulsion and something deep down is informing me that the entire situation is unhealthy and I should try to find a way to politely remove myself from the situation. I'm not intolerant if I understand something, yet find it to be repulsive. Being repulsed by something =/ a fear of it. Unless you're actually afraid of cross dressers or folks who like to mutilate their genitalia and perhaps replace it with the genitalia of the opposite sex via surgery then you have no such phobia. Edited April 1, 2015 by Valsuelm
Eurhetemec Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from being offended. Learn to cope already. You know who else hates freedom? The terrorists. You're not a terrorist are you? This is a game, freedom of speech is irrelevant. When the US government bans this limerick, then it's relevant. 1
Eurhetemec Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 As it is a largely irrelevent part of the game itself, I'm shocked that people seem so offended by the suggestion that removing it would be best. Even the person who wrote is apparently fine with it being removed, apparently. The people "offended" by it being removed are adopting an anti-feminist, anti-LGBT political position (hence "free speech maaaaaaan!" even though it has nothing to do with the government), not a principled one, so, don't take them too seriously. 1
Lord Wafflebum Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 I'm offended by religion. Priests should be removed from this game. 3
TheHarpoMarxist Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from being offended. Learn to cope already. You know who else hates freedom? The terrorists. You're not a terrorist are you? I'm sorry that you are offended that I exercise my freedom of speech to point out hurtful content that adds nothing to the game. I hope that Obsidian, as the artists whose created the game, make the right artistic call and opt to cut this particular iota of content which adds nothing at best and sours the experience of the game for lots of people at worst. Rest assured I don't think you are a terrorist though. I'm offended by religion. Priests should be removed from this game. Nice false equivalency bro. Edited April 1, 2015 by TheHarpoMarxist
Elerond Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) I'm offended by religion. Priests should be removed from this game. You only need to finish it to understand that is completely unnecessary. EDIT: When people ask Obsidian to remove bugs and especially when they ask edit how system or ruleset works, or some similar change. In those threads I have never seen people tell that such demands are censorship or against freedom of speech even though those ask are technically same thing with subject of this thread, meaning that some one don't like some aspect in Obsidian's art work and they want them remove it or edit it. Edited April 1, 2015 by Elerond
Ekaros Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 I'm offended by religion. Priests should be removed from this game. I agree, with all the gods and religions. They are after all offensive to us and many other people. And we have right not to be offended.
Eurhetemec Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 transphobic? Is that a word? does it mean a phobia of transgender people? because I think I have that. Not in a cognitive way, i mean, to each their own, but when I see and talk with a transgender person I have a visceral repulsion and something deep down is informing me that the entire situation is unhealthy and I should try to find a way to politely remove myself from the situation. I'm not intolerant if I understand something, yet find it to be repulsive. Being repulsed by something =/ a fear of it. Unless you're actually afraid of cross dressers or folks who like to mutilate their genitalia and perhaps replace it with the genitalia of the opposite sex via surgery then you have no such phobia. Repulsion often leads to phobia, though, and particularly to very negative and unwarranted behaviour towards the person they irrationally find "repulsive".
PermTrouble Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 I just find it really confusing that people think it would be wrong for a straight dude to freak out after finding he bedded someone who misrepresented their gender. It's not like the joke is "so he killed {insert pronoun here}" Not wanting to sleep with someone who wasn't born female doesn't mean you hate trans persons. 3
Lord Wafflebum Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from being offended. Learn to cope already. You know who else hates freedom? The terrorists. You're not a terrorist are you? I'm sorry that you are offended that I exercise my freedom of speech to point out hurtful content that adds nothing to the game. I hope that Obsidian, as the artists whose created the game, make the right artistic call and opt to cut this particular iota of content which adds nothing at best and sours the experience of the game for lots of people at worst. Rest assured I don't think you are a terrorist though. Source? I'm offended by religion. Priests should be removed from this game. Nice false equivalency bro. How so?
Marceror Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 What? And yet ANOTHER thread title for this? #BeingTrolledByModerators 4 "Now to find a home for my other staff."My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke
sparklecat Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 I just find it really confusing that people think it would be wrong for a straight dude to freak out after finding he bedded someone who misrepresented their gender. It's not like the joke is "so he killed {insert pronoun here}" Not wanting to sleep with someone who wasn't born female doesn't mean you hate trans persons. There's a difference between feeling freaked out and unnecessarily questioning your sexual orientation after unknowingly sleeping with a trans person and killing yourself from shame afterwards. 1
khermann Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) transphobic? Is that a word? does it mean a phobia of transgender people? because I think I have that. Not in a cognitive way, i mean, to each their own, but when I see and talk with a transgender person I have a visceral repulsion and something deep down is informing me that the entire situation is unhealthy and I should try to find a way to politely remove myself from the situation. I'm not intolerant if I understand something, yet find it to be repulsive. Being repulsed by something =/ a fear of it. Unless you're actually afraid of cross dressers or folks who like to mutilate their genitalia and perhaps replace it with the genitalia of the opposite sex via surgery then you have no such phobia. Repulsion often leads to phobia, though, and particularly to very negative and unwarranted behaviour towards the person they irrationally find "repulsive". Repulsion is a natural instinct meant to keep us alive. we see dead stuff rotting, we are repulsed, because our reptilian conditioning knows that is a vector for disease and death. If you want to socialize that, sure, go crazy, but it's a totally different thing when you start talking about behavior and how people are treated. I don't mistreat transgender people, I am as polite and respectful to them as I am anyone, but I still want nothing to do with them at a visceral level. It's not bigotry, I understand what is going on, and I'm okay with it. Believe it or not, just because someone doesn't like you and doesn't want to be your best friend doesn't mean they can't respect you and give you the same fair treatment they give others. It's called being an adult and accepting diversity. A negative view is cast for many reasons and not all of them are a reflection of character or social grace. People who want to make these arguments in to black and white tolerance issues are the people I have no time for, no matter what gender they think they are. Edited April 1, 2015 by khermann
Valsuelm Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) transphobic? Is that a word? does it mean a phobia of transgender people? because I think I have that. Not in a cognitive way, i mean, to each their own, but when I see and talk with a transgender person I have a visceral repulsion and something deep down is informing me that the entire situation is unhealthy and I should try to find a way to politely remove myself from the situation. I'm not intolerant if I understand something, yet find it to be repulsive. Being repulsed by something =/ a fear of it. Unless you're actually afraid of cross dressers or folks who like to mutilate their genitalia and perhaps replace it with the genitalia of the opposite sex via surgery then you have no such phobia. Repulsion often leads to phobia, though, and particularly to very negative and unwarranted behaviour towards the person they irrationally find "repulsive". You make an unintelligent assumption that whatever is repulsive to the person is irrational. For the most part being repulsed by anything or anyone is a subjective thing, as is being attracted to someone or something. It's rarely a matter of being rational or irrational. Is the proverbial pig in **** irrational for loving being there? Is your average human irrational for not wanting to be there? No, it's entirely subjective. Also, being repulsed by something/someone generally just leads to not wanting to be around it/them and that's about it, super rarely does it lead to a phobia (that would generally be irrational), or 'unwarranted behavior' (what's warranted or not is often subjective itself). Edited April 1, 2015 by Valsuelm
Lord Wafflebum Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 bad jokes are bad jokes. This particular joke is bad and tasteless. I don't believe it's worthy of bringing out the censorship gavel. 1
Eurhetemec Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 transphobic? Is that a word? does it mean a phobia of transgender people? because I think I have that. Not in a cognitive way, i mean, to each their own, but when I see and talk with a transgender person I have a visceral repulsion and something deep down is informing me that the entire situation is unhealthy and I should try to find a way to politely remove myself from the situation. I'm not intolerant if I understand something, yet find it to be repulsive. Being repulsed by something =/ a fear of it. Unless you're actually afraid of cross dressers or folks who like to mutilate their genitalia and perhaps replace it with the genitalia of the opposite sex via surgery then you have no such phobia. Repulsion often leads to phobia, though, and particularly to very negative and unwarranted behaviour towards the person they irrationally find "repulsive". You make an unintelligent assumption that whatever is repulsive to the person is irrational. For the most part being repulsed by anything or anyone is a subjective thing, as is being attracted to someone or something. It's rarely a matter of being rational or irrational. Is the proverbial pig in **** irrational for loving being there, is your average human irrational for not wanting to be there? No, it's entirely subjective. Also, being repulsed by something/someone generally just leads to not wanting to be around it/them and that's about it, super rarely does it lead to a phobia (that would generally be irrational), or 'unwarranted behavior' (what's warranted or not is often subjective itself). I don't know what your first language is, guessing not English, and maybe you're mistranslating repulsion, but absolutely it is irrational. If it's rational, it's not repulsion. If you're rationalizing it after the fact, as a "survival instinct" or whatever, that's rationalizing, rather than actually being rational. The poster above you understands this.
Eurhetemec Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 bad jokes are bad jokes. This particular joke is bad and tasteless. I don't believe it's worthy of bringing out the censorship gavel. Try replacing the "because they were male" with "because they were black" (or white, or whatever). Then maybe you'll get it. 1
Valsuelm Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 transphobic? Is that a word? does it mean a phobia of transgender people? because I think I have that. Not in a cognitive way, i mean, to each their own, but when I see and talk with a transgender person I have a visceral repulsion and something deep down is informing me that the entire situation is unhealthy and I should try to find a way to politely remove myself from the situation. I'm not intolerant if I understand something, yet find it to be repulsive. Being repulsed by something =/ a fear of it. Unless you're actually afraid of cross dressers or folks who like to mutilate their genitalia and perhaps replace it with the genitalia of the opposite sex via surgery then you have no such phobia. Repulsion often leads to phobia, though, and particularly to very negative and unwarranted behaviour towards the person they irrationally find "repulsive". You make an unintelligent assumption that whatever is repulsive to the person is irrational. For the most part being repulsed by anything or anyone is a subjective thing, as is being attracted to someone or something. It's rarely a matter of being rational or irrational. Is the proverbial pig in **** irrational for loving being there, is your average human irrational for not wanting to be there? No, it's entirely subjective. Also, being repulsed by something/someone generally just leads to not wanting to be around it/them and that's about it, super rarely does it lead to a phobia (that would generally be irrational), or 'unwarranted behavior' (what's warranted or not is often subjective itself). I don't know what your first language is, guessing not English, and maybe you're mistranslating repulsion, but absolutely it is irrational. If it's rational, it's not repulsion. If you're rationalizing it after the fact, as a "survival instinct" or whatever, that's rationalizing, rather than actually being rational. The poster above you understands this. My first language is indeed English, and I'm not 'mistranslating' anything. If you think being repulsed by something is necessarily irrational then you either have a misunderstanding of what it is to be repulsed, a misunderstanding of what it is to be irrational, or have a very limited imagination. 1
Eurhetemec Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 transphobic? Is that a word? does it mean a phobia of transgender people? because I think I have that. Not in a cognitive way, i mean, to each their own, but when I see and talk with a transgender person I have a visceral repulsion and something deep down is informing me that the entire situation is unhealthy and I should try to find a way to politely remove myself from the situation. I'm not intolerant if I understand something, yet find it to be repulsive. Being repulsed by something =/ a fear of it. Unless you're actually afraid of cross dressers or folks who like to mutilate their genitalia and perhaps replace it with the genitalia of the opposite sex via surgery then you have no such phobia. Repulsion often leads to phobia, though, and particularly to very negative and unwarranted behaviour towards the person they irrationally find "repulsive". Repulsion is a natural instinct meant to keep us alive. we see dead stuff rotting, we are repulsed, because our reptilian conditioning knows that is a vector for disease and death. If you want to socialize that, sure, go crazy, but it's a totally different thing when you start talking about behavior and how people are treated. I don't mistreat transgender people, I am as polite and respectful to them as I am anyone, but I still want nothing to do with them at a visceral level. It's not bigotry, I understand what is going on, and I'm okay with it. Believe it or not, just because someone doesn't like you and doesn't want to be your best friend doesn't mean they can't respect you and give you the same fair treatment they give others. It's called being an adult and accepting diversity. A negative view is cast for many reasons and not all of them are a reflection of character or social grace. People who want to make these arguments in to black and white tolerance issues are the people I have no time for, no matter what gender they think they are. If someone is instinctively repulsed by you, then it's not an issue of "not wanting to be your best friend". Humans are animals. Smart ones, but animals. You are vastly more likely to harm someone who repulses you than someone who does not. Period. Further, many people rationalize their visceral repulsion/fear through religious morality, leading to a self-reinforcing circle of harm to the victims of the repulsion. If you don't, and don't vote against LGBT rights etc. - great - but a lot of people like you do. Thinking this limerick is fine when a similar one about race would not be is a good test, frankly.
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