Controversial Limerick Discussion

[kirottu]

There's a mod that removes the joke. If you want to censor your gaming experience you can. Why isn't that enough? Why do you need to censor it for everyone?

[Amentep]

There's a mod that removes the joke. If you want to censor your gaming experience you can. Why isn't that enough? Why do you need to censor it for everyone?

 

If a mod could be created to remove it, then certainly a mod could be created to add it back.

 

So if mods are a solution, why is either option bad (the "put out" party would just have to apply the mod if they felt that strongly about it).

[McFeeb]

There's a mod that removes the joke. If you want to censor your gaming experience you can. Why isn't that enough? Why do you need to censor it for everyone?

 

 

Why would they want a mod to fix it?  Someone created one within hours of the start of this entire drama.  Do you think the majority of the people "upset" about this have even played the game?

 

It has nothing to do with a limerick which doesn't even say what they claim it does.  It's about exerting control over an industry they have no financial leverage over which forces them to rely on the only power they do have:  internet drama.

 

Caving to the demands of the perpetually offended will only encourage them to find more "problematic" content and you will have already demonstrated that you're willing to cave to their demands.  There is no upside for Obsidian in removing it.

[Amentep]

Caving to the demands of the perpetually offended will only encourage them to find more "problematic" content and you will have already demonstrated that you're willing to cave to their demands.  There is no upside for Obsidian in removing it.

To be fair, someone iss going to be butthurt regardless of what choice they make.

 

Face it, Obsidian's choice is which downside they want, not what choice has an upside.

[kirottu]

 

There's a mod that removes the joke. If you want to censor your gaming experience you can. Why isn't that enough? Why do you need to censor it for everyone?

 

If a mod could be created to remove it, then certainly a mod could be created to add it back.

 

So if mods are a solution, why is either option bad (the "put out" party would just have to apply the mod if they felt that strongly about it).

 

I think similarly as McFeeb, those perpetually offended would simply start to complain about something else, maybe Durance. "Give the devil a little finger, and he’ll take the whole hand."

[Amentep]

Probably true...but honestly there's perpetually offended on both side, whether it offense over jokes or offense over the removal of jokes that people found offense in.

 

Like I said, there's no positive outcome for Obsidian here; whoever perceives they "lost" with respect to what Obsidian does is going to take it personally and be further offended.

[Hellraiser789]

 

Caving to the demands of the perpetually offended will only encourage them to find more "problematic" content and you will have already demonstrated that you're willing to cave to their demands.  There is no upside for Obsidian in removing it.

To be fair, someone iss going to be butthurt regardless of what choice they make.

 

Face it, Obsidian's choice is which downside they want, not what choice has an upside.

 

 

Well, I agree, but they could do something like release an official patch (even if its the same as the fan-made one) that makes it optional to remove that specific joke. Seems a bit much for one single joke though tbh....but if its going to ruin someones gaming experience to leave it in....

 

(and before someone says "if its so insignificant, why not remove it?" Fact is, I like the joke and would be sad to see it removed. Not because of censorship; not because I don't like transpeople; I just think its funny and fits the setting, plus its backer content. And I think that last one might even be the most important - without these people, the game wouldn't exist. Period. If you don't like it, fine don't play the game, your loss. Or better - just don't read it or take it for what it is: a joke (offensive or not) that has no tie to the main story, no significance at all, and is absolutely pointless to get angry over.)

 

(I also don't see how its about transpeople - sure you could interpret it be so, but thats kind of like saying you think your interpretation is more valid just because you got more offended over it - and thats just stupid IMO)

Edited April 2, 2015 by Hellraiser789

[ChipMHazard]

Longknife, you're yelling at a stranger over the internet.  You're ranting.  Over what, exactly?  A few people making a simple, reasonable request to remove a half baked joke written by a backer who didn't know better.  So yes, I do think you're blowing it out of proportion.  I'll make it easy for you and walk away, because I actually am a comedy writer.  And I need to get back to it.

 

It's neither a simple nor reasonable request to make. 

The removal would set a precedent where it's possible for a single person to accuse Obsidian of offending one group or another and have the subsequent social media pressure force Obsidian to cave into their request (Which really is just a veiled demand). It could also mean that Obsidian would have to go through all of the backer content and make sure nothing else would be able to offend anyone, not to mention limit future content. 

 

Most importantly it further proves that it's possible to misconstrue anything and have the social justice movement make a mountain out of a nonexistent molehill. The joke is too vague to objectively be about transphobia. 

Only reason you've given so far as to why it should be removed is that it doesn't really matter when it comes to enjoying the gameplay. That is true, most people will probably never read it and it doesn't really do anything to enrich the lore, imo. But by the same logic removing the joke wouldn't do anything to improve the game either. A backer paid for the joke to be in the game and Obsidian allowed it to be included. That seems like the most reasonable argument for the joke to stay as is. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by ChipMHazard

[Marceror]

I hate this topic (if it's not clear by now), but since it's not going away. The joke is funny. Laugh. Move on.

[kirottu]

Probably true...but honestly there's perpetually offended on both side, whether it offense over jokes or offense over the removal of jokes that people found offense in.

I'm offended you would think I'm offended.

[DruidX]

doesnt bother me

[Amentep]

 

Probably true...but honestly there's perpetually offended on both side, whether it offense over jokes or offense over the removal of jokes that people found offense in.

I'm offended you would think I'm offended.

 

 

I didn't say you were offended.  Obviously when I mention the people who are offended, I am only referring to those who are offended and not those who weren't offended, who I liked to refer to as "those who weren't offended".

 

No offense intended.

[zered]

So this is the liberal freedom of speech?

[RedSocialKnight]

So this is the liberal freedom of speech?

 

You mean, criticizing speech you disagree with?

 

Yes, that is the liberal freedom of speech.

[soedenone]

Probably true...but honestly there's perpetually offended on both side, whether it offense over jokes or offense over the removal of jokes that people found offense in.

 

Like I said, there's no positive outcome for Obsidian here; whoever perceives they "lost" with respect to what Obsidian does is going to take it personally and be further offended.

???

 

Those two camps have nothing to do with eachother.

 

Those "offended over the removal of jokes" weren't offended about anything, and weren't looking to be offended cause of anything or for any reason.

That is not the case on the other side of the fence.

 

So no, I disagree; there are not "perpetually offended" on either side.

[zered]

 

So this is the liberal freedom of speech?

 

You mean, criticizing speech you disagree with?

 

Yes, that is the liberal freedom of speech.

 

It's not criticizing if you want to enforce people to remove what they wrote. It's more then that.  Anyways I don't care If not for this thread I wouldn't even see the limerick in game. I can't phantom why would this be so much of a deal.

[RedSocialKnight]

 

 

So this is the liberal freedom of speech?

 

You mean, criticizing speech you disagree with?

 

Yes, that is the liberal freedom of speech.

 

It's not criticizing if you want to enforce people to remove what they wrote. 

 

"enforce"?

[Rance]

 

 

So this is the liberal freedom of speech?

 

You mean, criticizing speech you disagree with?

 

Yes, that is the liberal freedom of speech.

 

It's not criticizing if you want to enforce people to remove what they wrote. It's more then that.  Anyways I don't care If not for this thread I wouldn't even see the limerick in game. I can't phantom why would this be so much of a deal.

 

The people complaining about the joke don't have the power to force Obsidian to remove it(thank god). They are entirely within their rights to complain about something they don't like. And you are entirely in your right to disagree with them. 

[ChipMHazard]

 

 

 

So this is the liberal freedom of speech?

 

You mean, criticizing speech you disagree with?

 

Yes, that is the liberal freedom of speech.

 

It's not criticizing if you want to enforce people to remove what they wrote. It's more then that.  Anyways I don't care If not for this thread I wouldn't even see the limerick in game. I can't phantom why would this be so much of a deal.

 

The people complaining about the joke don't have the power to force Obsidian to remove it(thank god). They are entirely within their rights to complain about something they don't like. And you are entirely in your right to disagree with them. 

 

 

Aye. Sadly that's where outside pressure comes in. Apply enough of it and you might just get your way.

[AlterKnacker]

Its like people are still mad at trans people for simply disagreeing and not liking the joke...callm down guys, please. we dont want to take your toys away.

[Arsene Lupin]

Goddammit, mods.

 

I made this thread, and no matter what a handful of posters may have said, it is NOT about the "controversial limerick." I don't give a rat's ass that some people were offended by something in the game (though you'd think all the ABORTION in the game would rile up people more) and I do not like being misrepresented as someone who DOES.

 

So called "offensive" content can be vital and necessary in any work of media because it forces people out of their comfort zones and to reexamine their beliefs.

[Amentep]

Goddammit, mods.

 

I made this thread, and no matter what a handful of posters may have said, it is NOT about the "controversial limerick." I don't give a rat's ass that some people were offended by something in the game (though you'd think all the ABORTION in the game would rile up people more) and I do not like being misrepresented as someone who DOES.

 

So called "offensive" content can be vital and necessary in any work of media because it forces people out of their comfort zones and to reexamine their beliefs.

 

 

Would it helped if a mod changed the title to be more general? Perhaps something along the lines of - "User Created Content - good/bad" since they wanted to lump all the discussions into one place.

 

 

 

???

 

Those two camps have nothing to do with eachother.

 

Those "offended over the removal of jokes" weren't offended about anything, and weren't looking to be offended cause of anything or for any reason.

That is not the case on the other side of the fence.

 

So no, I disagree; there are not "perpetually offended" on either side.

 

The "offended over the removal of jokes" side is the side that is offended at anything they think gives a hint of "Censorship".  And there are those on that side who see the word censorship and kneejerk just as hard as every other offended group.

 

IMO.

[Arsene Lupin]

Would it helped if a mod changed the title to be more general? Perhaps something along the lines of - "User Created Content - good/bad" since they wanted to lump all the discussions into one place.

 

Maybe: something like "Backer NPC discussions." But I still think these are two distinctly separate discussions.

[Rance]

Its like people are still mad at trans people for simply disagreeing and not liking the joke...callm down guys, please. we dont want to take your toys away.

I joined this thread late but I have not seen any anger directed at trans people since I joined. and also, you speak of transpeople like they are one "hivemind" or "entity", I have seen several transexuals in favor of keeping the joke in the game.

[Amentep]

 

Would it helped if a mod changed the title to be more general? Perhaps something along the lines of - "User Created Content - good/bad" since they wanted to lump all the discussions into one place.

 

Maybe: something like "Backer NPC discussions." But I still think these are two distinctly separate discussions.

 

They probably should be - I'd argue backer items were distinct as well, but that doesn't seem to be the direction...