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Understanding the stronghold

Stronghold Hirelings

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#61
Daemonjax

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You can respec characters using console commands and the IE mod.

 

If you don't want to do that because it's not "official", then you're just being your own worst enemy.  Why do you feel like you need the developer's permission to play a single-player game whichever way you feel like?  Rhetorical question.


Edited by Daemonjax, 13 April 2015 - 10:42 PM.


#62
Epsilon Rose

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You can respec characters using console commands and the IE mod.

 

If you don't want to do that because it's not "official", then you're just being your own worst enemy.  Why do you feel like you need the developer's permission to play a single-player game whichever way you feel like?  Rhetorical question.

I don't want to install a mod, or use console commands that probably lock achievements, to get basic functionality? Because it would be a fun thing to have in game and would provide a better use for the stronghold than some of it's current functions? Because I should have to go out of my way to correct basic flaws in a game I payed for? Should I go on?


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#63
Gromnir

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the ie mod has/had more than a few quirks when attempting to respec.  personally, we don't care about achievements, but we have trust issues with mods and the ie mod has fed our distrust.

 

HA! Good Fun!


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#64
Daemonjax

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the ie mod has/had more than a few quirks when attempting to respec.  personally, we don't care about achievements, but we have trust issues with mods and the ie mod has fed our distrust.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

At first I was leery with using that feature as well, but since I started using it I encountered no problems (the remove/add abilities/talents commands, not the relevel command).

 

@Epsilon Rose: It was a rhetorical question. 


Edited by Daemonjax, 13 April 2015 - 10:58 PM.


#65
dekergus

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hi there,

 

stronghold to me is a good roleplay element , i love to have my own castle, rebuild it , defend it myself even if i must stop what im doing, have prisoners, ect....

it would be great if a complete stronghold could alow you to start a faction, with allies and enemies same as your personal reputation, and events going with it.

would able to create an heraldic , choose the name , and so on. being called " Lord of Caed Nua " in game ^^

 

regarding the taxes, it makes me good incomes , somewhere between 400-800 benefit each time.

 

one thing puzzling me , i still didnt find where are the visitors ... the only one i saw was a drunk man in the donjon , all the others i didnt managed to find em....



#66
Ceranai

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hi there,

 

stronghold to me is a good roleplay element , i love to have my own castle, rebuild it , defend it myself even if i must stop what im doing, have prisoners, ect....

it would be great if a complete stronghold could alow you to start a faction, with allies and enemies same as your personal reputation, and events going with it.

would able to create an heraldic , choose the name , and so on. being called " Lord of Caed Nua " in game ^^

 

regarding the taxes, it makes me good incomes , somewhere between 400-800 benefit each time.

 

one thing puzzling me , i still didnt find where are the visitors ... the only one i saw was a drunk man in the donjon , all the others i didnt managed to find em....

Its terrible from a RP perspective as well. My end screen said that it was the biggest most secure etc fortress in the land but it had exactly 8 people in it (the hirelings).



#67
dekergus

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i agree , we should have more life in the stronghold, more militia as anyway we end up filthy rich, and more peasants, servants, chanters, ect... , regarding on prestige and security.

 

 

 

about my visitors problem, anyone to kindly tell me where i can find them ? :)



#68
Ceranai

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i agree , we should have more life in the stronghold, more militia as anyway we end up filthy rich, and more peasants, servants, chanters, ect... , regarding on prestige and security.

 

 

 

about my visitors problem, anyone to kindly tell me where i can find them ? :)

Mine are always in the main hall



#69
C8H18

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It could also reward you with intangibles or things that change your power orthogonally. Here are a few possible ideas off the top of my head:

 

 

  • Being able to directly access the resting option from the travel screen and the travel screen from anywhere in the keep. Possibly ditto for the merchants. This would allow you to skip loading screens, which doesn't effect in game power in the slightest but would be an incredibly nice feature.
  • Being able to leave a companion at a structure for a number of quests and respec them (possibly to varying degrees, depending on how long you leave them). This wouldn't change a hypothetical player's power, since they could have theoretically made any of those choices to start with, but it could let them correct early game mistakes or make the game more pleasant. It could also make it easier to try out new builds.
  • Move enchantments from one weapon to another or strip enchantments from a weapon and salvage their components. This would let you experiment with enchantments more and put interesting enchantments on weapons you're more likely to use, but it doesn't actually give you anything new.
  • Have the merchants take custom orders for a slight markup (I want a weapon with these enchantments and get me these ingredients while you're at it). This could, potentially increase a player's power, but at least they'd be paying to get the things.
  • Training room where you can spawn monsters (who would drop no loot and grant no XP) to fight against and test new strategies.

 

lets add some things up

 

I like the retraining idea to a point, playing hardcore i find it hard to keep the eight companions around when i can custom make my own.  so patching up their lore, mechanics and stealth to make them respective members would be nice so i could keep the unique dialogue around

 

Leaving members at the stronghold should grant incentive or perk.  the adventures are awesome but the rewards arent that great.  BUT its a reward with no risk.  add some risk... death and dismemberment, NOW weve got some RPG going

 

Some definition to the taxes  and day/turn cycle would be awesome.  that statue chair broad could be more helpful, or interesting.  

 

The keep has some awesome potential for RPG drama, like trade routes, discontent, famine, plague, WAAARRRRRR! mmm building an army....  that one a**hole hung half his town from a tree, ONE TREE!  the most i can do is butcher my people...

 

i agree it shouldnt be a source of income but definitely an investment for immersion.  id pay to have merchants with unique quests for their great gran dads war relic or whatever, their MY towns people, give them some personality!  or at least let me hang them... i can buy a tinkerer but wheres my gallows and giant scary executioner???

 

fixing the battles so they arent inside of my keep would make sense since i built giant walls and towers- could put those to use

 

thats off the top of my head,  feel free to add.  man i so want to buy a hanging tree for my town.  a burning post.  some of those torture racks would keep the public in line... 


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#70
constantine

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I'm just giving my feedback, who said anything about Obsidian murdering my family?

If anyone's being dramatic its you...



Oh really? Let's look at this again, shall we.



I am really disappointed with the Stronghold.

1) The bonuses from resting can't be combined, despite the flavour text implying the opposite. So basically they are a complete waste of time because you might as well dump 200g into resting at an Inn to get a much better bonus.

2) Vast majority of the shopkeepers offer absolutely nothing of worth. Complete waste of money.

3) Brighthollow is just a pain in the ass to get to, I have to go through 2-3 loading screens just to rest there, then go through another 2-3 loading screens to get back to the World Map.. are you ****ting me? Did a blind, lobotomized monkey design this feature?

4) Hirelings seem like a waste of time; they die too easily in the special encounters and mostly cost too much to just have lying around for the purposes of increasing prestige/security. If they at least got rezzed after fights then it wouldn't be so bad.

5) Nobody interesting moves into your Stronghold. The game needs a Deckard Cain-type character (or three) who you actually want to visit and talk to, to make the place seem more alive. It's just a really uninspiring place to visit, and as I've already stated the gameplay benefits are very limited.

Still better than the BG2 Strongholds, but at least they had semi-interesting quests tied to them. Really I'm only dumping gold into this place for the sake of completing it. I really couldn't care less about the place aside from that.


I'd say that the above comments in red are overly dramatic, wiith the comment about a blind, lobotomized monkey being ridiculously so.

Regarding point #1, yes, I agree that it's lame that the bonuses aren't better compared to what you can get at some inns. Agree 100%. That said, earlier in the game, those meager bonuses aren't so bad when you may not want to spend any more than necessary to rest. Later on when you're rolling in money (mostly because you've completely upgraded the stronghold, or at least decided to not sink any more into it), 200cp for a room that gives you a number of +2 bonuses starts looking like chump change. And it does seem a little silly that once you've fully upgraded your stronghold that somehow an inn can provide better, more restful, more bonus worthy accomodations than your own home. But that still doesn't qualify as a "complete waste of time"!!!


As for point #2, there are only 4 merchants in the stronghold, so there can hardly be anything vast about them in the first place. And while their inventories ae hardly inspiring, that doesn't qualify as "offering nothing of worth". "Exceptional" grade weapons are hardly worthless. Bland and uninteresting? Yeah, I'd agree with that. But worthless? Not at all.

At least when you mentioned the hirelings in point #4 you said that they SEEM like a waste of time, which is a reasonably fair way of stating whether true or not.

Also in point #5, I'm not sure that I'd say that "nobody interesting" shows up at the stronghold. I think that some of the characters that do visit might be very interesting, if, as you later suggest, you could actually talk to them.


In short, you seem unable to criticize without resorting to excessive hyperbole, otherwise known as being a drama queen. If you toned down the hyperbole and stuck to the logic of your points, you'd make much more convincing arguments.



Stop derailing the conversation Crucis, a thing you tend to do in many threads you participate.
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#71
Ceranai

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It could also reward you with intangibles or things that change your power orthogonally. Here are a few possible ideas off the top of my head:




  • Being able to directly access the resting option from the travel screen and the travel screen from anywhere in the keep. Possibly ditto for the merchants. This would allow you to skip loading screens, which doesn't effect in game power in the slightest but would be an incredibly nice feature.
  • Being able to leave a companion at a structure for a number of quests and respec them (possibly to varying degrees, depending on how long you leave them). This wouldn't change a hypothetical player's power, since they could have theoretically made any of those choices to start with, but it could let them correct early game mistakes or make the game more pleasant. It could also make it easier to try out new builds.
  • Move enchantments from one weapon to another or strip enchantments from a weapon and salvage their components. This would let you experiment with enchantments more and put interesting enchantments on weapons you're more likely to use, but it doesn't actually give you anything new.
  • Have the merchants take custom orders for a slight markup (I want a weapon with these enchantments and get me these ingredients while you're at it). This could, potentially increase a player's power, but at least they'd be paying to get the things.
  • Training room where you can spawn monsters (who would drop no loot and grant no XP) to fight against and test new strategies.
lets add some things up

I like the retraining idea to a point, playing hardcore i find it hard to keep the eight companions around when i can custom make my own. so patching up their lore, mechanics and stealth to make them respective members would be nice so i could keep the unique dialogue around

Leaving members at the stronghold should grant incentive or perk. the adventures are awesome but the rewards arent that great. BUT its a reward with no risk. add some risk... death and dismemberment, NOW weve got some RPG going

Some definition to the taxes and day/turn cycle would be awesome. that statue chair broad could be more helpful, or interesting.

The keep has some awesome potential for RPG drama, like trade routes, discontent, famine, plague, WAAARRRRRR! mmm building an army.... that one a**hole hung half his town from a tree, ONE TREE! the most i can do is butcher my people...

i agree it shouldnt be a source of income but definitely an investment for immersion. id pay to have merchants with unique quests for their great gran dads war relic or whatever, their MY towns people, give them some personality! or at least let me hang them... i can buy a tinkerer but wheres my gallows and giant scary executioner???

fixing the battles so they arent inside of my keep would make sense since i built giant walls and towers- could put those to use

thats off the top of my head, feel free to add. man i so want to buy a hanging tree for my town. a burning post. some of those torture racks would keep the public in line...

A number of great points here and any number of these changes would have made the stronghold more useful.the loading screen rubbish being my fav by far. I think that whoever decided that to rest in your own ****ing castle you have to go through four loading screens was indeed.. How did that other guy put it? A blind labotimized monkey...


If the stronghold had any of these features I might actually use it,I still think all they really had to do was make it feel less like a graveyard. Like just add some NPCs ffs like add some scholars to the forum, an innkeeper to the inn, some militia to the training grounds etc etc.honestly I walk around my fully upgraded fortress and think what a graveyard

Edited by Ceranai, 15 April 2015 - 12:29 AM.


#72
mudd1

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Stop derailing the conversation Crucis, a thing you tend to do in many threads you participate.

 

 

This conversation left any kinds of rails long ago if you ask me ;)



#73
voad1

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How do you get these rewards? I send party members out and it says I get these rewards but I've never once found anything in my inventory or stash.



#74
voad1

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I kind of like the stronghold. Just rebuilding it is nice because it gives it a sense of ownership. It feels good going back to a home base and it provides extra encounter and extra loot. Defending the base was pretty cool and one of the sellswords there was a good challenge. The bounties are great too.



#75
Epsilon Rose

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the adventures are awesome but the rewards arent that great.  BUT its a reward with no risk.  add some risk... death and dismemberment, NOW weve got some RPG going

I agree with most of your points, but I have a problem with this one. Death and dismemberment should never be the domain of the RNG. What you are describing is not an RPG, but a simple slot machine: Put adventure in and out comes riches... or you've wasted your buy-in. Either way, there's no strategy involved on your end.

#76
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I think tying taxes to turns and hirelings payments to real days was actually a pretty good idea, even if it's somewhat unrealistic. It prevents you from just resting and accumulating money. Yes, money is generally not a problem in PoE, but it doesn't mean they should have completely dropped the ball on it and left obvious exploits in. That said, I have a strong impression that hirelings take way more than advertised. Paydays seem to be real 24h, but my 3 10cp hirelings always cost me 150cp. I haven't actually timed it (which I should do, it's really not that hard), but it definitely happened more often than once in 5 24h days. Unless their trade union pushed a law that made 'day' mean just an 8 hour shift.


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#77
Psychevore

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Days aren't 24 hours in PoE though ;)

#78
Crucis

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How do you get these rewards? I send party members out and it says I get these rewards but I've never once found anything in my inventory or stash.

 

I think that any money rewards are dump directly into your coin purse.  And any items gained are put in a treasure chest that's in a room to the right of the talking "Steward" throne.  FYI though, don't be expecting any good items.  At least on my first run, I found nothing but scrolls or potions, in addition to the hordes of various special plants, herbs, and what not.  A little underwhelming, to be honest.  When you send one of your non-arty member companions out on a SH "grand adventure", you'd think that they'd come back with something more substantial than a mere potion of minor healing.



#79
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I'm just giving my feedback, who said anything about Obsidian murdering my family?

If anyone's being dramatic its you...



Oh really? Let's look at this again, shall we.



I am really disappointed with the Stronghold.

1) The bonuses from resting can't be combined, despite the flavour text implying the opposite. So basically they are a complete waste of time because you might as well dump 200g into resting at an Inn to get a much better bonus.

2) Vast majority of the shopkeepers offer absolutely nothing of worth. Complete waste of money.

3) Brighthollow is just a pain in the ass to get to, I have to go through 2-3 loading screens just to rest there, then go through another 2-3 loading screens to get back to the World Map.. are you ****ting me? Did a blind, lobotomized monkey design this feature?

4) Hirelings seem like a waste of time; they die too easily in the special encounters and mostly cost too much to just have lying around for the purposes of increasing prestige/security. If they at least got rezzed after fights then it wouldn't be so bad.

5) Nobody interesting moves into your Stronghold. The game needs a Deckard Cain-type character (or three) who you actually want to visit and talk to, to make the place seem more alive. It's just a really uninspiring place to visit, and as I've already stated the gameplay benefits are very limited.

Still better than the BG2 Strongholds, but at least they had semi-interesting quests tied to them. Really I'm only dumping gold into this place for the sake of completing it. I really couldn't care less about the place aside from that.


I'd say that the above comments in red are overly dramatic, wiith the comment about a blind, lobotomized monkey being ridiculously so.

Regarding point #1, yes, I agree that it's lame that the bonuses aren't better compared to what you can get at some inns. Agree 100%. That said, earlier in the game, those meager bonuses aren't so bad when you may not want to spend any more than necessary to rest. Later on when you're rolling in money (mostly because you've completely upgraded the stronghold, or at least decided to not sink any more into it), 200cp for a room that gives you a number of +2 bonuses starts looking like chump change. And it does seem a little silly that once you've fully upgraded your stronghold that somehow an inn can provide better, more restful, more bonus worthy accomodations than your own home. But that still doesn't qualify as a "complete waste of time"!!!


As for point #2, there are only 4 merchants in the stronghold, so there can hardly be anything vast about them in the first place. And while their inventories ae hardly inspiring, that doesn't qualify as "offering nothing of worth". "Exceptional" grade weapons are hardly worthless. Bland and uninteresting? Yeah, I'd agree with that. But worthless? Not at all.

At least when you mentioned the hirelings in point #4 you said that they SEEM like a waste of time, which is a reasonably fair way of stating whether true or not.

Also in point #5, I'm not sure that I'd say that "nobody interesting" shows up at the stronghold. I think that some of the characters that do visit might be very interesting, if, as you later suggest, you could actually talk to them.


In short, you seem unable to criticize without resorting to excessive hyperbole, otherwise known as being a drama queen. If you toned down the hyperbole and stuck to the logic of your points, you'd make much more convincing arguments.



Stop derailing the conversation Crucis, a thing you tend to do in many threads you participate.

 

 

Then stop with all the ridiculous hyperbole.  Intelligent, productive conversations are not truly possible when those who claim to be participating contribute nothing but useless immature hyperbole.  If anything, I'm trying to get the conversations BACK on the rails by trying to get people to talk like intelligent adults, rather than immature drama queens.
 



#80
TT1

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Things I'd like to see in the stronghold:

- Customization: the stronghold is in fact a very clean and happy place after restored. does not make much sense if I played a character that was cruel and aggressive most of the time. maybe the game could take advantage of this and include aesthetic options, like a moat, instruments of torture, chains, heads in a spike ... idk ... go crazy! We need more customization optionsl

- NPCs backers: perhaps the game should put some of the NPCs backer here, rather than put them in the cities.

- The stronghold looks like a fiefdom, right? then make the place shine with life. farms, farmers, soldiers, caravans, travelers, gypsies ... what about ordinary people bringing issues and making the player to make a moral decision through the dialogues? example: farmer 1 exceeded the limit of farmer 2 land, but the farmer 1 produces more food, while the farmer 2 has unused land. Please, meke me feel relevant to the world and to my lands.

- what about build elements that reflect your choice of class? you're a wizard? build a tower. You are a priest? would be nice to build a cathedral dedicated to your God? and so on ... What about build and expand the endless paths? YES, let me build my dungeon, after beating it.
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