Journalism and bias in the gaming industry

[Volourn]

"This whole Obsidian debacle....Of course I watched it close, as I'm sure you all did. Moment we got news it was Firedorn that opted to remove it with no pressure or force telling him to do so, I took that info and ran to KiA to try and calm people down. The snippet quoting Firedorn in the Obsidian megathread is thanks to yours truly for getting in touch with the mods ASAP. (pat on back for my minimal effort job)

 

  What's frustrating though, is the sheer amount of people that didn't give a damn and wanted to remain mad cuz being mad is fun. Holy hell, I mean check this out:"

 

I believe that that maybe how they approached the issue with him. I have no reason to think he would lie. However, I doubt Obsidian's sincerity in this case. The decision to chnge it occured the moment Sawyer posted on twitter in response to a homophobe who pretends to be a SJW amongst a bunch of his other hateful qualities.

 

No doubt about it. Firedorn didn't really have a choice here. Obsidian was changing that gravestone with or without his approval.  He went along with it  because a) he got to get a jab in anyways with the new one and b) he probably has better things to do then deal with such silly drama (no matter how fun it it is for us boardites lol).

 

Obsidian doesn't really care about us 'hardcore' players any more than BIO or other companies. They have our money. They don't need our approval.  Afterall,  vocal Obsidian employees have clearly sided with 'all gamers are scumbag pieces of crap' camp.

 

You can't offend anyone  except gamers hence nonsense like grognard, and other nasty insulting nonsense comes out of their words.

 

Oh well. 'Tis is life.

[Bayzent]

 

 

It's standard for a company, dude. A company will always search the middle ground that pleases all sides if possible.

 

Personally I'm happy knowing that Obsidian gave Firedorn to leave the limerick in place exactly as it was and that he was the one to decide to change it for their sake. I don't think it's realistic to expect more than that from a company. That's just how it is.

 

 

While I agree with you, the fact that all the limmerick threads are being locked is troubling to me. It doesn't make me throw them under the bus, but it sets the path that many other studios that I despise went...hell I see myself in the foreseeable future only playing Japanese games, good thing they are releasing stuff in Steam.

 

But at least they asked Firedorn, this is more than we can expect in this day and age of almost any Studio.

At any rate, what is this doing in a GG discussion?

[Longknife]

 

 

 

It's standard for a company, dude. A company will always search the middle ground that pleases all sides if possible.

 

Personally I'm happy knowing that Obsidian gave Firedorn to leave the limerick in place exactly as it was and that he was the one to decide to change it for their sake. I don't think it's realistic to expect more than that from a company. That's just how it is.

 

 

While I agree with you, the fact that all the limmerick threads are being locked is troubling to me. It doesn't make me throw them under the bus, but it sets the path that many other studios that I despise went...hell I see myself in the foreseeable future only playing Japanese games, good thing they are releasing stuff in Steam.

 

But at least they asked Firedorn, this is more than we can expect in this day and age of almost any Studio.

At any rate, what is this doing in a GG discussion?

 

 

No reason to worry about them being locked. Threads get locked after they breach 30-35 pages in length. Only one thread has been locked so far on the grounds of it devolving into a mess, and trust me, it was warranted. The only people left in the discussion at that point were the ones who wanted drama. There's already another thread about the limerick open right now.

 

This "Journalism and bias..." thread series is over half a year old. We've discussed GamerGate over half a year, never been censored by Obsidian.

 

 

And this is all relevant to GG. Check: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/

 

It's at the top of their interests right now cause it reflects censorship and overly sensitive SJW types.

[Orogun01]

This latest chapter has me hating GG, really they are becoming the next wave of SJWs (albeit a bit more argumentative). It is getting to the point where the bad seems to be outweighing the good and I'm almost ready to drop it.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

This latest chapter has me hating GG, really they are becoming the next wave of SJWs (albeit a bit more argumentative). It is getting to the point where the bad seems to be outweighing the good and I'm almost ready to drop it.

Yeah it seems a lot of them are being offended on Firedorn's behalf at the moment.

[C2B]

This latest chapter has me hating GG, really they are becoming the next wave of SJWs (albeit a bit more argumentative). It is getting to the point where the bad seems to be outweighing the good and I'm almost ready to drop it.

Thats why SJW's or any extremist/radical group won't last regardless of which side they are on. The only thing they feed is the opposite side, till that side explodes. And round it goes.

 

Actual debate, treating each other with respect and being reasonable is the hard way to go and just joining a mob a lot easier.

Edited April 4, 2015 by C2B

[Zoraptor]

 

This latest chapter has me hating GG, really they are becoming the next wave of SJWs (albeit a bit more argumentative). It is getting to the point where the bad seems to be outweighing the good and I'm almost ready to drop it.

Yeah it seems a lot of them are being offended on Firedorn's behalf at the moment.

 

 

I'd say that there is plenty of scope to be offended on his behalf though. Not because he changed the limerick, which is pretty minor so far as such things go even if he were pressured into it by Obsidian; but because a bunch of twitter activists labelled him as transphobic and... something genuinely weird and highly illogical about justifying trans panic murders, when it's the heterosexual guy who dies. The latter is simply bizarre but also very deeply unpleasant since it's such a huge non sequitor that it is indistinguishable from an outright lie, and the first is dependent on a very specific interpretation of the joke.

 

Unlike some of those on KiA I'd certainly take that- having a bunch of twitter warriors basically slander him- as being the reason for the strongly negative reaction though, not any minor pressure he may have felt from Obsidian.

 

Still, it actually could have been worse. Imagine if he'd used girl and boy instead of woman and man and the sorts of accusations that could then have been levelled by the offendatrons.

[Meshugger]

Am i the only one finding it funny that 8chan seems to have less drama about this compared to KiA?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Am i the only one finding it funny that 8chan seems to have less drama about this compared to KiA?

I'm not surprised tbh. 8chan is screaming shill and fighting while KiA is shilling for upboats. Therefore KiA will be starting more drama to feed the ego.

[Longknife]

Am i the only one finding it funny that 8chan seems to have less drama about this compared to KiA?

 

 

Here's something I didn't mention yet.

 

So I PMed the mod to get Firedorn's snippet added to the megathread right? Chill mod, quick to respond, thanked me, no problem.

 

The members started just downvoting me for presenting that evidence, or saying that it doesn't matter because blah blah blah. I was getting -2 on comment karma before I even refreshed the page. Eventually one of them even blatantly says "ur lying and being deceitful about how you present the info so I'm downvoting u everywhere cuz u deserve it." I took that post and linked it to the mod just kinda curious and asked "is this allowed?" I actually HATE reporting people and would rather settle issues myself, but these guys bothered me cause...had I been new to gamergate, they would've scared me off ASAP. The mod said I'd need to contact an admin to get anything done and unfortunately he can't do anything about the downvotes, to which I said no biggie and I was just surprised with the attitude from the redditors.

 

He responded with "that's what happens when subreddits reach a certain size. People turn it into a blind circlejerk. Seen it happen before, it'll happen to this subreddit too."

 

It was actually kinda depressing to hear him say that so matter of factly. I'll probably ask him how he can just stand it and not get depressed watching it happen, next time he's on.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Longknife

[Lexx]

I just wish people would stop talking about this stupid non-issue.

[Meshugger]

KP, Longknife: Seems like the very design of Reddit is crap, no wonder.

[Meshugger]

I just wish people would stop talking about this stupid non-issue.

 

Don't worry, there's a new one: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/75505-twitter-outrage-over-the-spoiler-quest/

[Lexx]

Well.

 

 

I don't know what to write now.

 

 

 

Yeah.

[Meshugger]

Don't worry. 8chan just went into overdrive with something completely different:

 

http://8ch.net/gamergatehq/res/31467.html#31467

 

TL;DR(as far as i can tell)-version: The subservsion started at least back in 2009 with the usual suspects. Conferences talking about changing games according to the ideas of critical theory. Centralization of bringing non-violent positive messages in gaming as medium and so on.

 

No one asked the gamers what they thought.

 

//Edit: Someone else made a better summary:

 

 

 

Alright, this is what I've managed to condense so far. There's probably more, but I think I have the key points of OMFGNinja's video.

1) Zoe Quinn and Heather Kelley are connected.
2) Heather Kelley did a talk on controlling people via video games, and how to use this power correctly. This is the Ludic Salon talk.

Key points of this talk:
2.1) How the concept of "Achievements" makes people do things they wouldn't.
2.2) How loss of control is politically powerful.
2.3) Kelley was working on a manifesto (If I'm right, it's called "Controlled Invasion"…even though that's the title of a small video she shows) on how to harness this power, and does express a fear that this will be used for evil; she wants to make sure these mechanisms aren't entirely hidden.
2.4) The manifesto happily suggests that the distinction between the "real world" and "game world" would be eliminated…and that games could be used as "agents of change."
2.5) It also suggests that this sort of change would necessarily have to happen over multiple generations, and that governments could use this as a tool to promote social change.
2.6) They suggest that both the right and left are very interested in using this.
2.7) They suggest that a set of ethics should be put forth to only use this power for "positive results." Someone suggests that this term would have to be defined. They put forth their own definitions.
2. They suggest that game developers admitting that they *do* have the power to create "positive results" would imply the power to create "negative results," which is frowned upon. (They did not say "Because Jack Thompson," but they obviously wanted to.)
2.9) Most disturbing: one person suggest that without a market incentive to make fun games, they wouldn't have to make fun games…and this might be good.
2.10) A refrain of theirs is "Break the magic circle." That is, they want to break the barrier between the "real world" and the "game world."

3) Heather Kelley is testing these techniques out in a benign fashion: teaching african kids to not beat the **** of their wives.

Proof of above segments:

1) Zoe Quinn and Phil Fish were seen at a wedding together (https://archive.today/zaAcy). Heather Kelley worked under Phil Fish at Polytron (https://archive.today/IRgm9). So, ZQ and HK are connected.
2) All is direct from the videos. Those desiring proof of these points should go watch it.

3) Is around the 42 minute mark of OMFGNinja's video.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Meshugger

[kirottu]

 

I just wish people would stop talking about this stupid non-issue.

 

Don't worry, there's a new one: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/75505-twitter-outrage-over-the-spoiler-quest/

 

The ride never ends, right Obsidian?

[Meshugger]

MOAR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Movies and TV revolve around the person being exposed to the propaganda just sitting down and enjoying it. Games require some interactivity and the problem with what these people are trying to do is that you need a completely linear, controlled game for it to work. If you give the gamer enough freedom to play the game outside of how the creators feel it should be played, you don't have control over them.

 

No wonder gamers had to die, no wonder the fun had to end. It should be a "didactic" experience when the proles learn the narrative.

 

//Edit: Where's the money-trail though? Who funds these people?

Edited April 4, 2015 by Meshugger

[Meshugger]

Remember the link between Gamasutra, IGF and UBM? How they are acting as the 'content controller' for indies? Contests being rigged and certain games being praised? How people colluded with each other all the time? Now who's the head honcho of UBM again?

 

 

 

Well, ****....i'm gonna play PoE for a while now. I need to rest.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Meshugger

[Cultist]

[Volourn]

"Actual debate, treating each other with respect and being reasonable is the hard way to go and just joining a mob a lot easier."

 

Respect is earned and hateful nazi SJWs have not earned the respect.

[Bayzent]

Am i the only one finding it funny that 8chan seems to have less drama about this compared to KiA?

Wasn't the 8chan threads like, hijacked by ****posters (I mean, worse ones) like a couple of days ago or something?

 

 

 

 

 

Here's something I didn't mention yet.

 

So I PMed the mod to get Firedorn's snippet added to the megathread right? Chill mod, quick to respond, thanked me, no problem.

 

The members started just downvoting me for presenting that evidence, or saying that it doesn't matter because blah blah blah. I was getting -2 on comment karma before I even refreshed the page. Eventually one of them even blatantly says "ur lying and being deceitful about how you present the info so I'm downvoting u everywhere cuz u deserve it." I took that post and linked it to the mod just kinda curious and asked "is this allowed?" I actually HATE reporting people and would rather settle issues myself, but these guys bothered me cause...had I been new to gamergate, they would've scared me off ASAP. The mod said I'd need to contact an admin to get anything done and unfortunately he can't do anything about the downvotes, to which I said no biggie and I was just surprised with the attitude from the redditors.

 

He responded with "that's what happens when subreddits reach a certain size. People turn it into a blind circlejerk. Seen it happen before, it'll happen to this subreddit too."

 

It was actually kinda depressing to hear him say that so matter of factly. I'll probably ask him how he can just stand it and not get depressed watching it happen, next time he's on.

 

 

He is already unfeeling, to him this is just another day, he is not human anymore, just a machine, dealing with this, dreaming with this, breathing this...

 

Sometimes during the night hours he still sees the eco chambers around, he hears them WK and Trolls fighting in the background for "strong independent damsels who no need no men"...

 

Until one day, one day he will snap, he doesn't know if he is going to point the blaze at him or at others, he only knows he'll pull the trigger...

Edited April 4, 2015 by Bayzent

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Am i the only one finding it funny that 8chan seems to have less drama about this compared to KiA?

 

Wasn't the 8chan threads like, hijacked by ****posters (I mean, worse ones) like a couple of days ago or something?

They moved to /gamergatehq/ after that.

[Meshugger]

 

 

Am i the only one finding it funny that 8chan seems to have less drama about this compared to KiA?

Wasn't the 8chan threads like, hijacked by ****posters (I mean, worse ones) like a couple of days ago or something?

They moved to /gamergatehq/ after that.

 

 

Yeah, the previous mod had a meltdown and gave the admin-access to the ayyteam. Also known as ****posters-deluxe. People quickly emigrated to the new board.

[McMayhem]

 

 

 

It's standard for a company, dude. A company will always search the middle ground that pleases all sides if possible.

 

Personally I'm happy knowing that Obsidian gave Firedorn to leave the limerick in place exactly as it was and that he was the one to decide to change it for their sake. I don't think it's realistic to expect more than that from a company. That's just how it is.

 

 

While I agree with you, the fact that all the limmerick threads are being locked is troubling to me. It doesn't make me throw them under the bus, but it sets the path that many other studios that I despise went...hell I see myself in the foreseeable future only playing Japanese games, good thing they are releasing stuff in Steam.

 

But at least they asked Firedorn, this is more than we can expect in this day and age of almost any Studio.

At any rate, what is this doing in a GG discussion?

 

 

They are closing the limerick threads because of **** like this:

 

[example ironically removed by moderator]

 

I'm 100% on board with not removing or changing the limerick, but to group me and anyone else who is a homosexual/bisexual/whatever into the same group as the one person you are talking about is ridiculous, and causes the argument to lose credibility. It's especially infuriating when you hear things like "SJW hate" spoken in the same breath as these wonderfully constructed epithets.

 

It's upsetting because I don't want games to censor themselves or to be forced into representing members of minorities in a certain way because the idiot mobs don't like it. However, it's hard for me to voice that opinion, when the people I share it with are actively pointing at me as the culprit in the matter, just because I happen to be gay.

 

The whole "you're with us or against us" mentality coupled with petulant insults just doesn't make for good forum conversation.

 

I happen to think that you, Bayzent, are not among the ones who are lumping me in with the other monstrosities, I only quoted you so I could explain why I believe the mods have been shutting down those threads.

Edited April 5, 2015 by TrueNeutral
Yeah, even as an example those kinds of slurs are something we'd rather not have.

[Meshugger]

Bored? I want to read some fun? Got that Deus Ex-vibe going on? Well look no further (Helen Kelley is a new name in this ride) http://8ch.net/gamergatehq/res/33382.html

 

 

 

So, do I have this right?

Moot, Leigh Alexander, and all their friends of friends inbetween (including LW, and Dame Helen Alexander; an obscenely rich, powerful and politically influential person) are working together to "reshape" gaming, by (1) creating their own video game, and (2) directly influence ALL gaming companies to change their storylines and game mechanics to feature pro-SJW messages.

Why? Because they have ALL read and discussed a "cultural marxist" theory by Antonio Gramsci that states that an idea can be invisibly pushed on society; and IF it is so widespread and unchallenged, society will unknowingly accept and self-enforce it.

In this case: this group of friends, and friends of friends are collaborating to fix what they believe to be modern society's greatest problem: the patriarchy, and it's "so widespread it is invisible, accepted and ignored" oppression of women. And by changing ALL video games to become "diverse, tolerant, and subconsciously teach young gaming males to respect and protect women", they can enact positive societal change on a global scale.

The videos in this thread feature "proof" that all these people are working together, have UN backing, and have all read/discussed/promoted Antonio Gramsci's theory on cultural marxism and are using it to "reshape video gaming as we know it."

ㅤ

It's the Fluoride in water idea. It's invisible, everywhere, makes society better, and society has just accepted it. These people are WORKING TOGETHER to do that to video games, which they can see has exploded in popularity and acceptance, and is no longer a "nerd" hobby, but enjoyed by ALL children and adults in eastern/western society. And they think "Hey, instead of adding fluoride, let's add pro-social justice messages to all video games everywhere! This will trick the world into believing what we believe, and they won't even know it's happening! And when they do, it will be so widespread and "normal", they will just accept it. Just like Antonio Gramsci wrote!"