Horrible combat - will this be patched as well as bugs ?

[Zekzt]

Let me start on the fact the RPG part of the game is awesome. Totally and undeniably awesome.

But the combat mechanics - this is something way different.

Path-finding - what path-finding ? Your party members are dumb dolls, that block each other out, block themselves in terrain obstacles, stand up like no-brainers and wait for death. You set them all up, create the action chain for every one and suddenly some of them are blocked in tight corridor, standing there ad doing nothing.

When you reposition them - ques what, the action chain you created is gone, you have to select this again.

Why we have no script behaviours for our heroes ? We had this in BG/ID series ? Was it so hard to implement it here ?

Another minor thing is aoe spells that damage even our party. Sure it should work like that, but with the horrible ai and path-finding and on top of that overall slowness of the game 90% of aoe spells is useless. You cast something and your opponents not even in the spot any more, or your party blocked up somewhere in the middle and you wiped them out instead of killing the enemy.


Last but not least another topic - the game "optimisation".
I do understand this title do not need stable 60fps, bah it could run well with only 30 frames per second.
Still - this is not some hi-end graphical intense engine, the game looks quite similar to the old titles like Temple of Elemental Evil. But it runs absolutely horrible. The copperlane is awesome example of poor optimisation. On the PC that is capable of handling all heavy graphical intense games this title should not even lose 1 frame. But in places like copperlane it crawls to 28-35 [and again - I'm fine with that, it doesn't make the game unplayable but still it shows very poor optimisation of this title].
Not to mention frame rate can crawl in combat situation, sometimes it can even go down to 10-15 frames - we talked about it in beta and nothing was done so far [the infamous "spider levels" where fpses just died]

 

 

I hope you guys do something about it in the upcoming patches - the game have so much potential. This is the first cRPG that really brings me back those great memories of BG/ID or Torment. Don't screw it up by poor support.

 

P.S.

English is not my native language so if I made some mistakes - please forgive me.

[TheHubby]

Same problem here. I'll get into combat, click one enemy for my character and another enemy for one of my companions to attack and they'll just stand there. I've even got to the point where the other enemy is right behind them, all they have to do is turn to hit it, and they stand there. The of course sometimes they will start attacking.. but my character will stop attacking and just stand there.

 

No crash issues here, thank goodness, but the game is still fairly unplayable when I can only get 1 member of my party to actually do anything. And I'm not even talking about multiple action queues, I literally mean they they won't even simply attack with their equipped weapon.

[grumbold99]

That sounds bizarre. All I can offer is that it's not like that for everyone, so something about your setup / install isn't working right.

[LevArris]

I can confirm this or very similar behavior (and 2 of my friends I play parallel with and we are communicating live over TeamSpeak). Even after the latest patch!

 

Example:

My party attacks one strong enemy. I do this raid style (scouting the area, pause the game, give an attack chain).

 

Two odd behaviors occure here:

 

1.) The party starts attacking. When the enemy detects my party the combat auto pauses. So far so good.

But now I have to reemplement the attack chain again. This is very pesky.

 

2.) after reemplementing the chain. the first 2 of my party start attacking. The others "feel blocked" and do nothing.

But there is plenty of space for going around the "fighting block" and attack from the back of the foe.

But they stand there and do nothing. but pause the fight and guide them manually works! Why does this not work automatically? Again. Very frustrating and very dangerous (often partymembers go down and i have to reload a save).

 

Despite of this: Great game. Enjoy it massively. Best Game for years! Thank you Obsidian!

[Blueynoes]

While we're on topic of dumb things in combat:

 

- If an enemy teleports, all attack commands by the party member attacking it are lost. Certain enemies that warp around (liches) require you to constantly regive orders to your whole team, as after a teleport they will stand there and not fight back

 

- Summoned creatures do not auto attack by default and will sit there until manually told to engage the enemies slaughtering your team

 

- Ranger's pet will often ignore an attack order given to your entire team if the pathing to the target is blocked at the time of the order, even if the path opens up before he would've gotten to the target

 

- Possibly related. If the path to a target is blocked, a melee unit will never walk to it again, even when the path becomes unblocked, until you reissue the same command.

 

- No range is displayed on mage spells. When fighting in a doorway where pathing is blocked (which is a great way to fight difficult opponents), and trying to cast an aoe, your mage will run back and forth constantly around your blocking line trying to get in range, knowing he never will. This is in sharp contrast to blocked off melee units who will just sit there and do nothing.

 

- When issueing an escape order (move away) to a character surrounded by your other characters, they will not move an inch to let him through. They will body block him until he dies unless you manually move each one of them out of the way, which is often too slow and results in the death of the bodyblocked character

[Hassat Hunter]

Didn't you get they tried to recreate the IE-experience?

 

Horrible pathing obviously needs to be part of that or it would be consolodised for the weak players.

 

(But yeah, I kind agree 4 melees can be difficult if the 4th just stands behind the first 3 instead of walking around them. Though it's not quite as bad as you make it out. Also; death to Dragon Age auto-play AI.)

[Maquabra]

Yeah... I have quite a lot to add to this thread.

 

1. Path-finding

It's extremely annoying. Party members just run against a wall and... keep running into it instead of going around. It completely ruins the mood. Seriously.

They are also incapable of moving into range with two-handed, long weapons. They will just run around the party member that is engaging the opponent(s) and do nothing unless they are in a clear, large space where they can reach their target going only in straight line. 

Narrow passages are also a huge problem. You never know where it's still "corridor" and where it already is "wall". It's annoying especially on fake 3D objects like curved bridges where you are simply unable to tell when you will be able to move your team around and when it will be impossible.

Last but not least, do you know that awkward feeling when you bump into a cutie, you try to move to one side and so does she bumping into you again, and if that wasn't enough, you try the other side and so does she? She allows herself a shy smile, you are a little embarrassed...In real life, it's a good opportunity to ask her out for a coffee or something, in PoE it's usually the reason for your whole team's death.

 

2. Range of spells and weapons

Mechanics of magic offered in PoE is great. I really love it. Red circle, yellow circle and range. It's fantastic and you deserve a medal for that. However, I never know where exactly I'll be able to cast my spell, how far my character will have to travel before he/she is in range and it makes it extremely hard to use where there's very little space to move around. 

Solution? A line that would connect your cursor and your character. The line could be green "in range", and its "out of range part" would be red. This way we would be informed not only whether we're in range or not, but also how far do we need to go to be in range.

The solution above would pretty much solve all issues reported with "uselessness" of AoE spells. Personally, I find them extremely useful even with this problem, though it definitely needs to be improved.

 

Melee weapons also have their range. It would be great if the range could be displayed as a circle around the a character when I mouse over the equipped weapon.

 

3. Scripting of characters

In general, I don't need it. I hardly ever queue actions, though many people certainly do. Why do they do so if they can pause the game every moment and issue fresh commands? I guess there's some use for it. I'd rather need scripts that wake my party members that go dormant for no apparent reason. Such situations happen when I issue an order to use a special attack on someone who dies before the attack can be performed. I sometimes end up with my artillery ceasing their fire because the enemy got slain by some other action, like trap or aoe spell. Teleportation is also an issue because there is no consistency in it. The teleported creature first disappears, then it appears as a piece of graphics without any substance (with whom it's impossible to interact), and only after some time (~1 second) the creature returns "in flesh". All commands that concern the creature are made void because that creature did not exist for said second. It's one of the main causes of autistic party members. 

On the other hand, I don't want my teammates to attack just because they can, or what would be much worse, to use abilities when not explicitly told so. So, if something aggressive in the are of scripting is implemented, please allow me to disable it. I just want my characters to return fire or target the 2nd mob when one was killed before they were able to attack it.

 

 

There are a few other issues, like lack of any tactical sense in AI, but my coffee break is over and I have to get back to work

[eos666]

sadly i can only agree.. combat and AI seems utterly broken in this game, its doable with alot of patience and owrk arounds like pausing all the time and re-issuing orders, constantly watching for empty action symbols etc.. its def a HUGE step back from BG!

[pedroantonio]

I can confirm this or very similar behavior (and 2 of my friends I play parallel with and we are communicating live over TeamSpeak). Even after the latest patch!

 

Example:

My party attacks one strong enemy. I do this raid style (scouting the area, pause the game, give an attack chain).

 

Two odd behaviors occure here:

 

1.) The party starts attacking. When the enemy detects my party the combat auto pauses. So far so good.

But now I have to reemplement the attack chain again. This is very pesky.

 

2.) after reemplementing the chain. the first 2 of my party start attacking. The others "feel blocked" and do nothing.

But there is plenty of space for going around the "fighting block" and attack from the back of the foe.

But they stand there and do nothing. but pause the fight and guide them manually works! Why does this not work automatically? Again. Very frustrating and very dangerous (often partymembers go down and i have to reload a save).

 

Despite of this: Great game. Enjoy it massively. Best Game for years! Thank you Obsidian!

 

1. Maybe you have checked the option to "stop all party movement when combat start" in the "combat starts"  autopause option. This will provoke that any order you gave to your chars before the combat started is cancelled when the combat started autopause triggers.

 

2. I don't get you. Are you saying that your non-melee characters don't automatically position themselves behind the enemy? Because if it's that, I'm sorry but you're playing this game wrong, you have to micromanage your characters, you know...that's the game.

 

 

 

I never know where exactly I'll be able to cast my spell, how far my character will have to travel before he/she is in range

 

The cast icon shows little feet when your character will need to move to cast the spell at the point you're pointing. Point to a location closer to your char until you see the little feed disappear from the icon, and in that moment the distance between your char and the casting point is the range of the spell; so the remaining distance between the current casting point and the original casting point is the distance your character will have to move to cast the spell at your original casting point.

 

Simple geometry and paying some attention to the interface is the solution.

[Deim]

I see only 1 minus in this game. BUGS. But it will be nerfed in next patches.

[LevArris]

 

1. Maybe you have checked the option to "stop all party movement when combat start" in the "combat starts"  autopause option. This will provoke that any order you gave to your chars before the combat started is cancelled when the combat started autopause triggers.

 

2. I don't get you. Are you saying that your non-melee characters don't automatically position themselves behind the enemy? Because if it's that, I'm sorry but you're playing this game wrong, you have to micromanage your characters, you know...that's the game.

 

to 1.: Im not sure but this could maybe a solution. I'll check this!

 

to 2.: no I don't think I play wrong. after setting up the attack chain two of my 3 melees attack. the third with the same order has just to go around the other two (already fighting) and hit the target. There is plenty of space to do this. No narrow situations between a door or something else. but he simply does nothing.

 

despite of my own live experience my two friends (die hard BG-Veterans, one plays Path of the Damned but without Trial of Iron *G*) confirm this.

[pedroantonio]

 

to 2.: no I don't think I play wrong. after setting up the attack chain two of my 3 melees attack. the third with the same order has just to go around the other two (already fighting) and hit the target. There is plenty of space to do this. No narrow situations between a door or something else. but he simply does nothing.

 

Oh, I undestand you now. You mean a melee char doesn't close the distance to the enemy when ordered to do so,  like (so to speak) if the pathfinding wasn't able to find a path to a valid melee attack position (when that path clearly exists) and therefore the attack ordered was cancelled in practice.

 

I agree then, that's very strange. Using reach weapons like pikes or spears could be a way to mitigate that in the meantime, since they allow a char to make melee attacks on an enemy from behind another char.

Edited April 8, 2015 by pedroantonio

[citizen_x]

Just wanted to add, that yea, thats a problem, some variations of "stuck" are very often for me, not only that even worse is when character instead of going somewhere "tries" to get there so he constantly runs up and down a path ,blocking other in the result, this happens not only when the road to the waypoint had blocked, but even when its "tight" fit (i CAN manually direct him there).Not only that, enemies get stuck also, and they cant get unstuck, My friend had a situation where one of the main bossess (at the end of paths of damned..) got stuck and did nothing whole battle, so was easily defended :-/.Collision system seems to be not that great, another example, in dungeons, there was a big hole in a wall, i could get through it with two characters standing beside each other, however , when i strategically put a mage there and tried to shoot fireballs, they got deflected by nothing and i was shooting at myself, whats even weirder is that sometimes it got through at weird angles :-/.Its all down to unity probably .And going to be a tough fix.

[McPartyson]

All that you mention is a problem for me.

 

How does one have more than 2 melee attackers in their party with this combat design? For example, my barbarian ends up stuck behind the fighter doing nothing a lot of the time if there's a third melee team member present.

 

Another example: I entered a room with my party which had a coffin in the middle. 2 team members started fighting the enemy on one side of the coffin but the 3rd team member couldn't get there because it was tight...so instead of path finding his way around the opposide side of the coffin and come behind, he just stops idle. WTF?

 

For all those who say they don't experience this. Make a full 6-man melee party. See the glory of this combat system at work.

Edited April 8, 2015 by McPartyson

[xenustehg]

Didn't you get they tried to recreate the IE-experience?

 

Horrible pathing obviously needs to be part of that or it would be consolodised for the weak players.

There is an obvious difference between casualing the game by making  AI doing all your job and when you order one party member to attack a certain enemy and that character either does nothing or continiously runs back and forth triggering all the disengagement attacks from near enemies.

[Hassat Hunter]

My sarcasm just went way over you :/

[gh0stwizard]

Most complains in this topic are able to fix via in-game settings menu: go and read all options (aoe displaying, attack stops when fight started and so on)!

I have fun with such micro-management and you are just became too lazy after DA:O, IMHO :-D

[McPartyson]

Most complains in this topic are able to fix via in-game settings menu: go and read all options (aoe displaying, attack stops when fight started and so on)!

I have fun with such micro-management and you are just became too lazy after DA:O, IMHO :-D

 

You obviously didn't read the actual complaints, but thanks for your useless post.

[geobio]

Agreed with most of what is said here, please refine and adjust this "combat mode" Obsidian.