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melee cipher build

cipher melee build skills attributes

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#61
Raven Darkholme

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I tried that kind of build with a thief and it's just way to tedious, because you might as well switch ranged weapons. With the thief at least you have 2x sneak damage if your near the target, with the cipher it doesn't make much sense.



#62
Daemonjax

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cipher gets a .40 class damage boost while rogue gets a .50 class damage bonus.  Not really that much of a difference.  Rogue does get another damage boost when a mob has two debuffs, and that's a great talent to have and probably rogue's best talent... so the rogue class is strictly better in single target melee dps than the cipher, but that doesn't mean weapon swapping to dual melee never makes any sense for them.  

 

Style has to count for something, too. ;)


Edited by Daemonjax, 18 April 2015 - 03:17 AM.


#63
Raven Darkholme

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Just cleared Dryford Ruins boss fight and freed Aelys. Diethe fight with level8 and am now 9. :)

#64
knownastherat

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My point is that you can't prove this stuff with screenshots, you need a video.

 

You are actually correct. I dunno why I even bother to prove anything to anyone.

 

Yeah, melee cipher cannot generate 15 Focus in 14 sec.



#65
Raven Darkholme

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Act 3 level 10 here I come.
@known
Your missing my point with retaliation high might and a mob hitting you you can generate 100 focus in 10 secs.
Its just not a reliable tactic when you still use paralyze, later you burn your focus for damage. ;)

#66
knownastherat

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I am not missing anything. Claim was made, that claim was that its impossible to generate 15 Focus in 14 sec (I still dunno where 14 sec come from ...)  in melee. The claim is not supported by evidence. Its that simple.


Edited by knownastherat, 18 April 2015 - 10:21 AM.


#67
Raven Darkholme

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Then you're not good at reading context. I said that in combination of  "Binding being the best tactic to spam repeatedly", as if you just need that spell and are in godmode from then on.

But if you just got the spell and melee, focus regeneration is a big problem.



#68
Ruminate

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Then you're not good at reading context. I said that in combination of  "Binding being the best tactic to spam repeatedly", as if you just need that spell and are in godmode from then on.

But if you just got the spell and melee, focus regeneration is a big problem.

 

Wouldn't focus regeneration be an even bigger problem for non-melee ciphers at that level?

 

I mean, is there a sure-fire way to find a blunderbuss at level 3? You have a small chance of obtaining a blunderbuss from a crate next to bandits in Black Meadows, but thats not gauranteed. You also need to pick up Draining Talent at level 2 and suffer the -10 accuracy penalty of the blunderbuss.

There is a sure-fire way to obtain a fine estoc... just pick up Kana Rua. The southwest portion of Magran's Fork has a dead body that carries either a fine pollaxe or fine great sword. You don't need to fight any enemies to get to it either. All of them offer a 14 accuracy advantage over the non-guaranteed blunderbuss. You can also pick up a weapon focus at level 2 instead of Draining Whip for a huge 20 accuracy advantage. Even if Mental Binding misses, you'll still hit more often than the blunderbuss.

 

You only need to deal 60 damage to generate 15 focus. 60 damage over the course of 14 seconds is ~4.3 DPS. Are you telling me you can't deal 4.3 DPS with a fine 2-handed weapon at level 3?


Edited by Ruminate, 18 April 2015 - 11:33 AM.


#69
Raven Darkholme

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The post which started this discussion was about survival on Potd, one guy claimed that's no problem because you can spam MB. In melee you'll get hit back which is bad for a squishy cipher in ranged you don't need constant binding to survive.

#70
taek

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You only need to deal 60 damage to generate 15 focus. 60 damage over the course of 14 seconds is ~4.3 DPS. Are you telling me you can't deal 4.3 DPS with a fine 2-handed weapon at level 3?

 

 

Against tougher enemies, sure.

 

On Hard a Shadow has 60 deflection & 8 DR.  

A 2H Sword vs 8 DR has 1.70 DPS. 

 

The Shades I believe have 16 DR, as do plate wearing paladins. Against 16 DR a 2H sword does 0.77 DPS.

A level 3 Cipher has 31 accuracy.

 

I'm not sure of the stats of POTD Shadows & Shades.

 

Wouldn't focus regeneration be an even bigger problem for non-melee ciphers at that level?

 

 

A ranged character won't die if the enemy isn't CCd.

A 3 CON Cipher at level 3 standing next to the tanks upfront will take a beating if the CC grazes/runs out.

 

 

Smartly using ranged when it's not safe and melee when it's safe will work, but that's nothing new or different. That's normal Cipher and normal Rogue gameplay.


Edited by taek, 18 April 2015 - 12:40 PM.


#71
Climhazzard

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A 2H Sword vs 8 DR has 1.70 DPS. 

 

The Shades I believe have 16 DR, as do plate wearing paladins. Against 16 DR a 2H sword does 0.77 DPS.

A level 3 Cipher has 31 accuracy.

 

I'm not sure of the stats of POTD Shadows & Shades.

 

 

 

 

You can't really prove a point using made up numbers.  Can't take credit for this nor give any, yet...

 

https://docs.google....#gid=1848365110

 

The damage mod being used is higher than you'll normally have at level 3, but if you include cipher talents 1.44 isn't unreasonable, and it's significantly more dps than 1.7 against 8 DR.


Edited by Climhazzard, 18 April 2015 - 01:15 PM.


#72
Raven Darkholme

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Maybe we should remind ourselves theres rarely only one enemie...

#73
Climhazzard

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Maybe we should remind ourselves theres rarely only one enemie...

 

My alarm clock?


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#74
Ruminate

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A 2H Sword vs 8 DR has 1.70 DPS. 

 

The Shades I believe have 16 DR, as do plate wearing paladins. Against 16 DR a 2H sword does 0.77 DPS.

A level 3 Cipher has 31 accuracy.

 

I'm not sure of the stats of POTD Shadows & Shades.

 

 

 

 

You can't really prove a point using made up numbers.  Can't take credit for this nor give any, yet...

 

https://docs.google....#gid=1848365110

 

The damage mod being used is higher than you'll normally have at level 3, but if you include cipher talents 1.44 isn't unreasonable, and it's significantly more dps than 1.7 against 8 DR.

 

 

Start at 20 might and you have +30%

Soul Whip adds another +20%

A fine estoc adds another 15%

65% total damage mod.

 

This assumes there are no grazes are misses, but a blunderbuss with draining whip is going to be even worse against 75 deflection enemies (PotD shadows) at level 3.

 

I also find it strange that the other guy brought up shadows. Shadows don't care if you're melee or ranged. They'll get up in your face either way. Bringing up shadows is a detriment to their argument about survivability.



#75
knownastherat

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They are not going to have 75 deflection, they will be debuffed from it.



#76
Avatea

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i would like to thank everyone for their posts on this thread. I should have read these before I started, I have learned so much!
My Cipher is level 7 in middle of Act II and my build is:
Might 18 (-1 Orlan, +1 Living Lands), Con 15, Dex 18, Per 12 (9 base, +1 The Pilgrims Lasting Vigil, +2 Orlan), Int 12, Resolve 5 (3 base +1 The Pilgrims Lasting Vigil, +1 Orlan).
Stealth 7, Athletics 3, Lore 6
I use Hold Wall (Arbalest) to start and as soon as melee begins I switch to Duel Wield Stilettos (One of which is Azureiths Stiletto, which says it "grants Jolting Touch"). That stiletto is amazing, i thought it gave me the spell to use like a mage, but instead it randomly casts it in melee combat. It procs more than I thought it would (although dont depend on it), but when it does, the damage is pretty nice.
I have never had a restart an never died and gain focus really well.
Draining Whip is a must for duel wield.

I have nothing more to add that hasnt been said already.
If i had read this thread prior to starting, I would have done things slightly differently to tweak the Cipher build.
Thanks again to everyone who posted with great advice, you people are awesome!!

Yes, im a noob lol.
Btw
(Rolling Orlan makes me want to Kill Durance every time I talk to him.)

#77
Raven Darkholme

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In my Potd solo I now reached level 10 and my biggest fight yet was killing Simoc for wanting me to kill a kid. I didn't even bother using environment cheese anymore, best strategy by now is to stand in the middle of your enemies and shoot a mind lance first, then detonate whoever is wounded most. Him exploding just does insane damage to his allies. As soon as I reach 11 I guess I will spam Amplified Wave all day and disintegrate on dangerous individuals.

#78
knownastherat

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Indeed, Chuck Norris is not cheese.



#79
Evange

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I got knocked out once at the end of the fight with Maerwald. I mean what's up with this dude resisting 3 tenuous grasps...damn



#80
knownastherat

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Psychovampiric Shield is - 10 Resolve. Well, he is mage, he resist Will attacks.







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