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No I play Easy and I am trolling you here.

 

I even included screen shot. In that scree shot enemy was almost perma-paralyzed and at the end of the fight I had 43 Focus enough to cast almost 3 x paralyze. That is with 3 Mig for lulz

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What that has to do with anything? 15 Focus every 14 sec on PotD melee cipher. You claim its impossible and I have screen shot proving you wrong. What is the matter with you?

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:)

 

Initial Focus 40

Mental Binding (paralyze) cost 15 Focus

According to combat log enemy was paralyzed almost whole time and if it was not it was not of lack of Focus but bad timing

End Focus 43

 

If you want to put it that way, yes I took screen shot lasting 14 sec. Though I am still not sure where those 14 comes from. Mine hits are for 9 sec and grazes for 4.5 sec and target was still paralyzed the whole time despite much shorter time than in dispute.

 

lamo

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It's not like the OP was asking for some solo run melee tank cipher ownage build.

 

With 5 other characters in the party, you can be a melee cipher when it's appropriate and used ranged when it's not.

 

The ideal situation to switch to melee cipher is against an easy to crit target target that's paralyzed and debuffed (preferably trying to attack someone else), dual-wielding spell proccing weapons -- and the faster the better.  Why melee at all?  Because you already used your blunderbuss and don't want to waste time reloading it.  Plus style points.

Edited by Daemonjax

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I tried that kind of build with a thief and it's just way to tedious, because you might as well switch ranged weapons. With the thief at least you have 2x sneak damage if your near the target, with the cipher it doesn't make much sense.

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cipher gets a .40 class damage boost while rogue gets a .50 class damage bonus.  Not really that much of a difference.  Rogue does get another damage boost when a mob has two debuffs, and that's a great talent to have and probably rogue's best talent... so the rogue class is strictly better in single target melee dps than the cipher, but that doesn't mean weapon swapping to dual melee never makes any sense for them.  

 

Style has to count for something, too. ;)

Edited by Daemonjax

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My point is that you can't prove this stuff with screenshots, you need a video.

 

You are actually correct. I dunno why I even bother to prove anything to anyone.

 

Yeah, melee cipher cannot generate 15 Focus in 14 sec.

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Act 3 level 10 here I come.

@known

Your missing my point with retaliation high might and a mob hitting you you can generate 100 focus in 10 secs.

Its just not a reliable tactic when you still use paralyze, later you burn your focus for damage. ;)

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I am not missing anything. Claim was made, that claim was that its impossible to generate 15 Focus in 14 sec (I still dunno where 14 sec come from ...)  in melee. The claim is not supported by evidence. Its that simple.

Edited by knownastherat

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Then you're not good at reading context. I said that in combination of  "Binding being the best tactic to spam repeatedly", as if you just need that spell and are in godmode from then on.

But if you just got the spell and melee, focus regeneration is a big problem.

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Then you're not good at reading context. I said that in combination of  "Binding being the best tactic to spam repeatedly", as if you just need that spell and are in godmode from then on.

But if you just got the spell and melee, focus regeneration is a big problem.

 

Wouldn't focus regeneration be an even bigger problem for non-melee ciphers at that level?

 

I mean, is there a sure-fire way to find a blunderbuss at level 3? You have a small chance of obtaining a blunderbuss from a crate next to bandits in Black Meadows, but thats not gauranteed. You also need to pick up Draining Talent at level 2 and suffer the -10 accuracy penalty of the blunderbuss.

There is a sure-fire way to obtain a fine estoc... just pick up Kana Rua. The southwest portion of Magran's Fork has a dead body that carries either a fine pollaxe or fine great sword. You don't need to fight any enemies to get to it either. All of them offer a 14 accuracy advantage over the non-guaranteed blunderbuss. You can also pick up a weapon focus at level 2 instead of Draining Whip for a huge 20 accuracy advantage. Even if Mental Binding misses, you'll still hit more often than the blunderbuss.

 

You only need to deal 60 damage to generate 15 focus. 60 damage over the course of 14 seconds is ~4.3 DPS. Are you telling me you can't deal 4.3 DPS with a fine 2-handed weapon at level 3?

Edited by Ruminate

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The post which started this discussion was about survival on Potd, one guy claimed that's no problem because you can spam MB. In melee you'll get hit back which is bad for a squishy cipher in ranged you don't need constant binding to survive.

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You only need to deal 60 damage to generate 15 focus. 60 damage over the course of 14 seconds is ~4.3 DPS. Are you telling me you can't deal 4.3 DPS with a fine 2-handed weapon at level 3?

 

 

Against tougher enemies, sure.

 

On Hard a Shadow has 60 deflection & 8 DR.  

A 2H Sword vs 8 DR has 1.70 DPS. 

 

The Shades I believe have 16 DR, as do plate wearing paladins. Against 16 DR a 2H sword does 0.77 DPS.

A level 3 Cipher has 31 accuracy.

 

I'm not sure of the stats of POTD Shadows & Shades.

 

Wouldn't focus regeneration be an even bigger problem for non-melee ciphers at that level?

 

 

A ranged character won't die if the enemy isn't CCd.

A 3 CON Cipher at level 3 standing next to the tanks upfront will take a beating if the CC grazes/runs out.

 

 

Smartly using ranged when it's not safe and melee when it's safe will work, but that's nothing new or different. That's normal Cipher and normal Rogue gameplay.

Edited by taek

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A 2H Sword vs 8 DR has 1.70 DPS. 

 

The Shades I believe have 16 DR, as do plate wearing paladins. Against 16 DR a 2H sword does 0.77 DPS.

A level 3 Cipher has 31 accuracy.

 

I'm not sure of the stats of POTD Shadows & Shades.

 

 

 

 

You can't really prove a point using made up numbers.  Can't take credit for this nor give any, yet...

 

https://docs.google.com/a/lcmail.lcsc.edu/spreadsheets/d/1SHdaQ8yNSvJhxcqFeP9ykXdua_EsjSAb9ypzPA8Oink/edit#gid=1848365110

 

The damage mod being used is higher than you'll normally have at level 3, but if you include cipher talents 1.44 isn't unreasonable, and it's significantly more dps than 1.7 against 8 DR.

Edited by Climhazzard

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A 2H Sword vs 8 DR has 1.70 DPS. 

 

The Shades I believe have 16 DR, as do plate wearing paladins. Against 16 DR a 2H sword does 0.77 DPS.

A level 3 Cipher has 31 accuracy.

 

I'm not sure of the stats of POTD Shadows & Shades.

 

 

 

 

You can't really prove a point using made up numbers.  Can't take credit for this nor give any, yet...

 

https://docs.google.com/a/lcmail.lcsc.edu/spreadsheets/d/1SHdaQ8yNSvJhxcqFeP9ykXdua_EsjSAb9ypzPA8Oink/edit#gid=1848365110

 

The damage mod being used is higher than you'll normally have at level 3, but if you include cipher talents 1.44 isn't unreasonable, and it's significantly more dps than 1.7 against 8 DR.

 

 

Start at 20 might and you have +30%

Soul Whip adds another +20%

A fine estoc adds another 15%

65% total damage mod.

 

This assumes there are no grazes are misses, but a blunderbuss with draining whip is going to be even worse against 75 deflection enemies (PotD shadows) at level 3.

 

I also find it strange that the other guy brought up shadows. Shadows don't care if you're melee or ranged. They'll get up in your face either way. Bringing up shadows is a detriment to their argument about survivability.

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