Companion's Builds, ouch.

[Voss]

 

Your companions are, in theory, the faithful allies whose skills and experience make victory possible. The fact that the Watcher could do significantly better by going to the inn and hiring a bunch of anonymous jerks is ... grating.

 

Well, it's about who's going to follow along with you.  If someone says "hey, I want to help, your cause is just!" you don't usally turn around and say "you've got a derp build, go away".  Sure, that's how MMO often players do it but that's more power play than role play.  Instead let the guy come along and sing some songs while you carry the day maybe. 

 

 

 

Nonsense.  This *isn't* how people behave.  The life of an adventurer is life and death all the time.  Think of people out on actual combat missions (do you think they want the supply clerk along?), or military themed TV shows.  Stargate comes to mind here- the episode with Felger and wossname, or the moon with the zap bugs and the annoying scientists.  The team absolutely does not want these people around, and literally do tell them to go away, because they are a liability.  That is exactly what any sane person in the protagonist's role in PoE should do.  Send these civilians home.   But theoretically there is plot/story/interesting things afoot, so... yeah.  Either feed them to bears or tolerate them for sake of story time.  But they'd be far easier to tolerate if they weren't miserable useless wretches.

[Magrusaod]

^ Exactly right. It's not peewee football tryouts. It's defending yourself from Skulds and Shadows in dungeons on a quest to save the world. The weak get slaughtered, are a liability to the protagonist. 

[HozzM]

For me personally I have no problem with the Companion attribute selections.  My issue is that they are leveling up and taking whatever the **** talents and abilities until you get to them.  So they can easily get less effective the longer you take to recruit them.

[Bryy]

Aloth + a support Wizard is a beastly combination. Startyr and Aloth tear **** up.

[redbird]

i dunno about hard but on normal i've had no problems with the companions. my party (pc cipher, eder, aloth, durance, kana) is gleefully slaughtering anyone who crosses them.

 

also, since this is the spiritual successor to bg/2 seems worth noting that plenty of joinable npcs in those games had subpar stats. it's just part of the fun.

[falchen]

Having accuracy on perception would help some of them I think. Like the ranger currently has maxed deflection with her second highest stat being con even though she's a bow user and therefore not a tank, why? If this made her good at hitting things it'd at least make sense.

 

Not having them level up on their own would help crappy feat selection (weapon focus peasant on druid, really?).

[Ineth]

 

When the IE mod comes out, you'll be able to wipe their progression and level them up.

 

Not really in keeping with the "IE" name, there, is it?

 

 

The IE games did have the Level 1 NPCs mod for that.

 

(Though its name was unfortunate, as it lead people to believe it somehow nerf'ed NPCs. When actually it did exactly what Sensuki just mention: let players control the the character build choices of their companions from level 1 to the level where you meet them.)

[Ineth]

I mean, how would you feel if you made a Fighter, met Eder, and discovered that he can do everything your handcrafted character can do, only better?

 

I think that concern is exaggerated. With so many different build options available, there would still be ample room for distinction - so even if Eder was really good, your own fighter could be really good in different ways.

 

And even if the NPC really managed to outshine the PC, so what? In BG2, Edwin was a better mage than pretty much any player character could hope to be (thanks to his unique amulet), and that didn't ruin the game.

 

In fact, most BG2 companions had really high stat rolls, and several had builds that shouldn't even be possible according to the rules. Yet that didn't cause any of my player chars to develop an inferiority complex...

[Ineth]

Jaheira with 15 STR, Viconia too weak to even lift a flail

 

...in a game world where "set strength to 18/19/20/21" belts/bracers/weapons/potions were practically growing on trees.

[PrimeJunta]

...in a game world where "set strength to 18/19/20/21" belts/bracers/weapons/potions were practically growing on trees.

There are a total of four belts/bracers setting STR to 18/00 or higher in the game, only two of those are available in chapter 2, and only one of them is available for purchase. There's also a mace that sets STR to 18 but then you're tied to that weapon. The only thief whose abilities you can develop (other than Yoshimo) starts out as a godawful backstabber and you have to spend several levels and allocate items to get around that. Getting the INT 16 casters to develop a decent spell selection requires either savegame abuse or very careful management of scrolls plus potions of genius.

 

All of this contributes greatly to my fun. I've played BG2 with a minmaxed party and it wasn't nearly as interesting. Deciding who gets which item, when to stop to get Jan to memorize spells, and allocating potions is a big part of the fun.

 

I would expect P:E to have similar ways to work around the party's limitations.

Edited March 28, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[termokanden]

Oh and there's a warhammer that sets your strength to 25 too

 

That said, I agree that it's more fun to play with poorly optimized party members that have personalities than just pieces of mechanics that make the game easier (probably too easy). Besides, some of us take serious ego damage if our characters aren't more powerful than the companions

[Hysterion]

So instead of arguing with one another about who is right or wrong, or if min/maxing is good or bad, lets actually try and make the companions viable in a fight, like what would be your choice for abilities/talents ?

[falchen]

So instead of arguing with one another about who is right or wrong, or if min/maxing is good or bad, lets actually try and make the companions viable in a fight, like what would be your choice for abilities/talents ?

 

Most would be pretty simple to fix I think, like for Aloth just drop some points from per to might or int, for Durance move all that resolve to int, spread Sagani's perception and con between might and dex.

 

They don't need to be min/maxed but currently most companions have stats which do nothing for their role.

[Jazriel]

Kind of a random spot for this but I can't think of anywhere else in the forums to put it, but why does Pallegina have, with no equipment and just after resting: -2 DR, -3 Pierce DR, -2 Flame DR, and -2 Freeze DR?

[Hysterion]

 

So instead of arguing with one another about who is right or wrong, or if min/maxing is good or bad, lets actually try and make the companions viable in a fight, like what would be your choice for abilities/talents ?

 

Most would be pretty simple to fix I think, like for Aloth just drop some points from per to might or int, for Durance move all that resolve to int, spread Sagani's perception and con between might and dex.

 

They don't need to be min/maxed but currently most companions have stats which do nothing for their role.

 

I'm more interested in talents/abilities for the companions. It's not that i'm lazy to try everything myself, but people who played beta probably know what's viable for companions without using any mods that change stats. For example should i get Aloth the Eldritch aim and Slicken like Odd Hermit suggested or should i go for something else. 

[Ohioastro]

Given that there are other threads from veterans complaining that the game is too easy on hard, having min/maxed companions would do nothing but make it easier.  Min/maxing also has the consequence of making the NPCs rigid in their role: e.g. a chanter / tank is a different build than a chanter / dps, and a side consequence of making the stats imbalanced is to restrict the potential roles that a NPC can fill.  Basically, a NPC should be competent at any of the roles the class should take, not a specialized glass cannon or the like.

[keeksfabrik]

 

...in a game world where "set strength to 18/19/20/21" belts/bracers/weapons/potions were practically growing on trees.

There are a total of four belts/bracers setting STR to 18/00 or higher in the game, only two of those are available in chapter 2, and only one of them is available for purchase. There's also a mace that sets STR to 18 but then you're tied to that weapon. The only thief whose abilities you can develop (other than Yoshimo) starts out as a godawful backstabber and you have to spend several levels and allocate items to get around that. Getting the INT 16 casters to develop a decent spell selection requires either savegame abuse or very careful management of scrolls plus potions of genius.

 

All of this contributes greatly to my fun. I've played BG2 with a minmaxed party and it wasn't nearly as interesting. Deciding who gets which item, when to stop to get Jan to memorize spells, and allocating potions is a big part of the fun.

 

I would expect P:E to have similar ways to work around the party's limitations.

 

 

In BG2 there is also a lvl 2 Mage spell that sets the Strength of a character to 18/50 and has a long duration, so low strength values are no problem at all )

 

I don't mind the attributes of the companions in PoE being far from perfect. You can do another kind of min/maxing by taking them as they are and try to make the best of them, I think that is part of the game and way more fun than just having all perfect characters (I think they implemented the Adventurer's Hall for people who want that).

What bothers me is the fact that they automatically level up and pick talents when you meet them at higher levels. Unlike the attributes, this is something I can influence by getting them as fast as possible. So in order to have the most influence on their build I have to rush for them, and that is not how I want to play the game.

[Oneiromancer]

Basically, a NPC should be competent at any of the roles the class should take, not a specialized glass cannon or the like.

 

I think, more or less, that's what the majority of the people here wants really. And that's what the npcs would have been if the attribute system didn't go through so many weird changes that ultimately it came out as this weird mix of defensive/offensive attributes that made some of them borderline useless for anything but fronliners (arguably even for anyone but tanks).

 

Personally I don't care that much, I'm playing on hard and bringing the npcs along for the banter and that's it.

 

The only thing I did chance is Edér weapon focus. I don't see the reason (not even RP wise) for him to have WF:Ruffian over WF:Soldier or WF:Peasant other than him having gone through a "rogue phase" back when npcs were still subject to changes. 

[Rostere]

NPCs are **** for powergaming, just like in BG1. PoE is just keeping the proud tradition of gimped characters.

[TT1]

I want to make a healing priest. What are the stats you guys think will be the best?

[Mungri]

I hope that it will be possible to modify the companions soon.

[Magrusaod]

I want to make a healing priest. What are the stats you guys think will be the best?

 

Might improves healing. Int improves Duration and AOE of spells that have either or both. Simple. Crank Might, and put the rest into Int so you can buff when not healing. 

[Giantevilhead]

I don't think it's fair to compare PoE companions to BG companions since there were long term buffs in BG, enchanted items that raise attributes by a lot, and characters had specialized items/abilities.

 

For example, there was the mage spell strength that raised a character's strength to 18 for 1 minute/caster level, negating the poor strength of Jaheira and Mazzy. There was the belt of fortitude that can boost constitution to 18 for 8 hours, making fragile characters like Aerie and Viconia durable. Edwin has his awesome amulet that gave 2 extra spells per level.

[Odd Hermit]

Kind of a random spot for this but I can't think of anywhere else in the forums to put it, but why does Pallegina have, with no equipment and just after resting: -2 DR, -3 Pierce DR, -2 Flame DR, and -2 Freeze DR?

 

I think there may be something funky going on with her starting armor. She has abnormally high DR against everything for me.

 

It's supposed to increase DR by ~1.5x while under 25% endurance but I think it's displaying that and possibly granting it all of the time now.

 

Maybe something bad/buggy also happens when you take it off.

 

Edit here's what her DRs are when I take it off -

 

http://i.imgur.com/SkNCutN.jpg

 

O_o

Edited March 29, 2015 by Odd Hermit

[Vesimas]

Hello everyone, just a simple question. Let's say that the npc are bad so i want to create my own party, i'll lost for sure all the dialogue and the side quest. About the second part, could i reach the exp cap (level 12) skipping all npc quest? Thank you :D