Companion's Builds, ouch.

[Magrusaod]

Here's the thing. You can make a Wizard in a number of different ways. You can make him a Might based raw damage Nuker with low AOE who never buffs to just fry single targets. You can make him a super fast acting machine gun who throws out alternating large AOE and long duration Buffs and Debuffs by cranking Dex and Int. You can make a wizard in a lot of ways. However, if you want to get the full story, you are stuck with a subpar control mage who truly, really isn't all that good at it. 

If you want a tanky fighter, you can build one. If you want a fighter with a 2 handed sword who hits like a truck and doesn't have a high deflection, you can build one that way. However, if you want to pre-designed plot and story, you are stuck with Eder. Who really doesn't do either well, but both in a mediocre fashion. 

It's not so much optimizing, it's getting to create a character that shines in a role within a group of 6. I don't need 3 semi-tanks who can swing a weapon up front for mediocre damage. One super tank will do, and two guys who are beefy enough to not die who can beat the stuffing out of anything that comes in reach is what I might prefer one play through. However, I can't do that with the pre-mades, because they aren't built this way. Hence the issue I have been bringing up. 

One game I may not involve a Chanter at all, I may want a Control Wizard and a buffer priest, with 2 fighters, one heavily armored with a big shield and sword and lots of Resolve and Con to just soak damage and another with lots of Might and Dex who is lightly armored with a great sword who rapidly cuts people into pieces. Aloth *could* fit into this group, but it's still not how I would build a wizard. Ever. Yet, in order to gain the full story, I either need to cope with what is there, or I need to go into the command prompt and completely hack Aloth into a wizard which is serviceable for my ideal party roles I wish to run through the game with. 

As someone who's been a player and DM of DnD since TSR ran DnD, I've played just about every class and concept one can think of. I enjoy tinkering and trying out new ways to mix and match concepts into a tactical squad that gets things done in fun new ways. It's just a way for me to put my knowledge to use. I do wonky stuff with all wizard groups, and make unique wizards who tag team the enemy and make a laser light show of awesome sometimes. Occasionally, I'll make an all dwarf group of fighters who literally play kickball with the enemy, just tossing the poor bastard back and forth across the battlefield, helpless and unable to do anything until it dies. Why? Because it's fun. 

Sitting down and looking over what I had several hours into the game after meeting Eder and Aloth, I realized these characters were built simply to survive what is thrown at them. A conservative build that just puts them in the background with some defensive stats to keep them alive through your bad decisions for a moment or two in order for you to save their lives. They aren't there to shine in their role, it's like they are special and needed a helmet. 

So I dumped them off with the Innkeeper, dropped gold onto my party and built my own part in the Black Dog Inn. I now have 6 characters that I would enjoy utilizing as a solid unit working together. Instead of 1 competent character carrying along 5 possibly amusing and heartwarming dialogue rambling characters who really don't hold their own weight in the chosen adventuring profession they are in. It's not about optimization, it's about being able to enjoy running a party based RPG with a competent party of PCs. Instead of 1 PC and a bunch of followers I need to babysit. 

[BrokenMask]

 

Not sure how bad or good my barbarian is, I ended up having 19 19 11 7 15 7

..... how?

 

Not sure if I remembered wrong my stats(I can't check them out now), but it was amauma barbarian from Rautai(sp?) think. I think I got might above 18 with amauma and con above 18 with country choice, unless I remember wrong thats it. I'll check at home and say if that was right if that build is impossible

 

But yeah, its still about like that, two most important stats high, less important ones above 10 and less important low, is that a okay build?

Edited March 27, 2015 by BrokenMask

[HozzM]

Are the companions a static level no matter what level the PC is when they are recruited or are their tiers where they are higher or lower level depending on PC level? If it is the latter can someone who has recruited all 8 post a brief roar map on how to get them all ASAP?

[solmyr]

It's perfectly right to be a munchkin (I was in BG2 when building my "dream team" with Keldorn, for instance,buffed with dexterity bracelet and strength belt) and still to prefer companions for their story rather than their lack in some attributes.

But, if there is some CON or MIGHT check that are party-based (in opposition of main character other attributes/skills), I would like to know if some companion have a decent CON or MIGHT : it will influence my party choice because an Obsidian NPC will always have more flavor than an an adventurer from the Adventurer's Hall.

[gkathellar]

Are the companions a static level no matter what level the PC is when they are recruited or are their tiers where they are higher or lower level depending on PC level? If it is the latter can someone who has recruited all 8 post a brief roar map on how to get them all ASAP?

 

Companions seem to join up with slightly less experience than the Watcher at time of recruitment.

[Zwiebelchen]

Come on guys, the game is not built around only taking the NPC companions. That's why we have the adventurer's hall after all.

 

The point is:

There are only 8 companions in the game... so it's a safe bet that Obsidian doesn't even expect you to take 5 of them with you on your first game.

 

Just hire 1 and 2 custom build hirelings and fill the rest of the slots with the story companions, then enjoy the increased replay value of this game with a set of totally different story companions on each game.

 

 

See? 8 companions. Perfect to split that up in two 4-companion runs or three 3-companion-runs (if you take Kana twice because he is probably the strongest companion or Aloth twice because of his dialogue being awesome)

Edited March 27, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Reever]

Come on guys, the game is not built around only taking the NPC companions. That's why we have the adventurer's hall after all.

 

The point is:

There are only 8 companions in the game... so it's a safe bet that Obsidian doesn't even expect you to take 5 of them with you on your first game.

 

Just hire 1 and 2 custom build hirelings and fill the rest of the slots with the story companions, then enjoy the increased replay value of this game with a set of totally different story companions on each game.

 

 

See? 8 companions. Perfect to split that up in two 4-companion runs or three 3-companion-runs (if you take Kana twice because he is probably the strongest companion or Aloth twice because of his dialogue being awesome)

 

What kind of argument is that? o.0

[PrimeJunta]

Many BG/2 companions were ... not optimally built either. Casters with 16 INT, Jaheira with 15 STR, Viconia too weak to even lift a flail, and so on.

 

I imagine that's to make the PC seem that much more awesome. Plus give a little extra challenge to figure out ways around the limitations, e.g. who gets which stat-boosting item.

[Kid Presentable]

Just finished grabbing them all, Grieving Mother wasn't where I expected heh, and instead in one of the places I was less likely to look.

Could you post/pm me some hints on where to find them? Like just which general area/act? I've got Eder, Aloth, Durance, Sagani, Kana. Companion locations is the first spoiler I go for, bugs the hell out of me otherwise.

 

Edit: Sorry for the OT!

Edited March 27, 2015 by Kid Presentable

[Zwiebelchen]

 

Just finished grabbing them all, Grieving Mother wasn't where I expected heh, and instead in one of the places I was less likely to look.

Could you post/pm me some hints on where to find them? Like just which general area/act? I've got Eder, Aloth, Durance, Sagani, Kana. Companion locations is the first spoiler I go for, bugs the hell out of me otherwise.

 

 

While you're at it: would be a good idea to update the wiki on that. Some companions still missing the location info there.

[gkathellar]

Many BG/2 companions were ... not optimally built either. Casters with 16 INT, Jaheira with 15 STR, Viconia too weak to even lift a flail, and so on.

 

I imagine that's to make the PC seem that much more awesome. Plus give a little extra challenge to figure out ways around the limitations, e.g. who gets which stat-boosting item.

 

Yes, but (a) many stats didn't really matter in those games - for instance, having 16 Int only really affected how many spells you could write in your book, and (b) in BG2, it bears noting, none of the companions actually have bad distributions or bad stats.

 

Attributes are a lot more meaningful in PoE than they were in the IE games, and the distributions on NPC companions are a lot worse.

[tnc]

Aloth has such poor stats that it makes me want to build a wizard main character lol. 

[Yvain]

A mod to start them out at level one would do the job. At least that way you could pick a build that best fits their attributes even if some are still a little wonkey.

[gkathellar]

A mod to start them out at level one would do the job. At least that way you could pick a build that best fits their attributes even if some are still a little wonkey.

 

Bester's IEMod can do this using the ChangeClass command. You can't move around their attributes (yet), but you can relevel them up from 0 in whatever class.

 

Aloth Paladin gogogo

[Kid Presentable]

An equivalent of Shadowkeeper for PoE would be awesome.

[Yvain]

 

A mod to start them out at level one would do the job. At least that way you could pick a build that best fits their attributes even if some are still a little wonkey.

 

Bester's IEMod can do this using the ChangeClass command. You can't move around their attributes (yet), but you can relevel them up from 0 in whatever class.

 

Aloth Paladin gogogo

 

I don't see that option in the mod? Where do I find that?

[Nodor]

 

Many BG/2 companions were ... not optimally built either. Casters with 16 INT, Jaheira with 15 STR, Viconia too weak to even lift a flail, and so on.

 

I imagine that's to make the PC seem that much more awesome. Plus give a little extra challenge to figure out ways around the limitations, e.g. who gets which stat-boosting item.

 

Yes, but (a) many stats didn't really matter in those games - for instance, having 16 Int only really affected how many spells you could write in your book, and (b) in BG2, it bears noting, none of the companions actually have bad distributions or bad stats.

 

Attributes are a lot more meaningful in PoE than they were in the IE games, and the distributions on NPC companions are a lot worse.

 

 

The fighters in BG 2 usually had around 15 str.   This meant that unless they were buffed they suffered major damage and to hit penalties relative to any player generated melee hero.  I do not think it is unreasonable that Pillars does the exact same thing. 

[Odd Hermit]

Perfect build are not interestring, it's an RPG, companions should be taken for their story / quest / interaction.

 

Nevertheless, can someone please post the attributes list of all companions ?

 

Here they are, and I think there's a lot of comfortable room between "perfect" and this terribleness -

 

Eder

• Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res

• 16 - 16 - 11 - 10 - 13 - 12

Gotten @ level 2 w/ Rapid Recovery talent.

 

Aloth

• Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res

• 12 - 10 - 11 - 16 - 16 - 13

Gotten @ level 2 w/ Blast talent.

Durance

• Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res

• 14 - 15 -- 9 -- 9 - 13 - 19

Gotten @ level 3 w/ Interdiction talent.

 

Kana

• Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res

• 16 - 12 --9 - 14 - 17 - 10

Gotten @ level 3 w/ Ancient Memory talent

+Seems to gain +2 Intellect from quest(?) at some point along the way.

 

Sagani

• Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res

• 13 - 14 - 11 - 18 - 11 - 10

Gotten @ level 4 w/ WF: Peasant and Faithful Companion talents

+Marked Prey and Wounding Shot abilities

 

Pallegina

• Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res

• 12 - 13 - 11 - 15 - 13 - 14

Gotten @ level 4 w/ Intense Flames and WF: Soldier

+Lay On Hands ability

 

Hiravias

• Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res

• 14 - 15 - 14 - 13 - 11 - 10

Gotten @ level 4 w/ Bonus Lvl 1 Spell and WF: Peasant talents

 

Grieving Mother

• Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res

• 11 - 12 - 16 - 17 - 12 - 10

Gotten @ level 4 w/ Draining and Biting Whip talents

 

 

 

I should've waited to make this thread and put in the OP. Ah well.

 

[Bazy]

I think what makes the premades interesting is that they are not necessarily min-maxed. Just like they characters themselves they are inherently flawed. Being able to play around what strengths/weakness they have is interesting. 

[solmyr]

Thanks a lot Odd Hermit !
Strange stats repartition indeed, but I'm looking forward to play with it anyway, without any modification (at least for the first playthrough).

[Odd Hermit]

I think what makes the premades interesting is that they are not necessarily min-maxed. Just like they characters themselves they are inherently flawed. Being able to play around what strengths/weakness they have is interesting. 

 

I believe Eder when you first get him says something along the lines of "hope you're not expecting much".

 

Which I thought was a little bit funny.

 

I still would be fine with their personality being separate from their build. I mean, keep the class as obviously it's a big part of characters, but it's not like they can use their attributes in dialogue checks anyway. It doesn't have a meaningful link to their personalities for me, I'd rather have the interesting character and a decent combatant than some odd attempt to build their combat stats with their personality in mind.

 

I also think they may've built the characters before changing what attributes do(since they did multiple changes), but I'm not sure.

[gkathellar]

Wow ... I thought Aloth was pretty bad, but Grieving Mother is terrible.

 

Ugh.

 

So, let me pose a hypothetical to people in the thread: say you could shift around the attributes for each companion, but couldn't actually change what the numbers were (so, for instance, you could move Aloth's 16 in Perception to Might, but you couldn't take two points out of it to give him a might of 14). What reassignments would you make?

 

 

The fighters in BG 2 usually had around 15 str.   This meant that unless they were buffed they suffered major damage and to hit penalties relative to any player generated melee hero.  I do not think it is unreasonable that Pillars does the exact same thing. 
 

 

The frontliners in BG2 did not have an average 15 Strength. Jaheira and Mazzy had 15 Strength, while every other warrior was sporting 17s and 18s. Hell, even Yoshimo and Haer'dalis had 17 Strength.

 

More importantly, Pillars is not a d20 game. It does not play like a d20 game. Scaling percentage bonuses are more important than set integer bonuses that lose importance over the course of level gain.

[conanthelibrarian]

Uggh... was really wanting to use Pellagrina, but her MGT and INT are so bad.  

 

Eder is not TOO bad IMO.  Aloth...wow, as the only mage was hoping for more MGT and INT to be a nuker.

[Oneiromancer]

Uggh... was really wanting to use Pellagrina, but her MGT and INT are so bad.  

 

She has fairly good resolve and perception, with an above average constitution to booth so she can be used as a decent tank. She's probably one of the "least worse" Too bad about Grieving Mother having both low might and intellect, I'm still going to use her though!

[Warwolf]

Can't you just use the Console commands to fix the stats? Or am I missing something?