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You can design the Wizard to be a good Battlemage on Normal. They get less effective on higher difficulties. I haven't played too much with the Cipher, but that class might be a good second.

"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


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Wizards fighting spells and talents (Arcne Vail, Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff , Citzal's Martial Power etc.) are quite powerfull, Druid with his shapeshift and Returning Storm is also neat (though after shapeshift he doesnt look like "battlemage" you may wish for xP). After watching some of ciphers videos i don't find him that appealing - imo he is more like dualclassing of rogue/mage - very squishy and he should be in the front best dualwielding (as far as i know he's getting x focus for each succesful hit - so 2 fast hitting weapons are best for him) - it may be just my (wrong) impression. Other choice and possibly the best is heavy-armoured chanter (you should stick to the front anyway to buff your companions and debuff enemies).

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Cipher is the closest thing to that. I suppose you could rig a wizard to be a battlemage, but it isn't very good at it IMO.

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I am really enjoying the cipher class, if you give them a bit of CON and some medium armor they can take a few hits and a 2 hander gives good damage and soul return for spells. Some of the later spells really boost your defenses while destroying your enemy. Defenitly not a tank class but can stand toe to toe with some big bruisers for a time if the right spells are used.

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Wizards fighting spells and talents (Arcne Vail, Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff , Citzal's Martial Power etc.) are quite powerfull, Druid with his shapeshift and Returning Storm is also neat (though after shapeshift he doesnt look like "battlemage" you may wish for xP). After watching some of ciphers videos i don't find him that appealing - imo he is more like dualclassing of rogue/mage - very squishy and he should be in the front best dualwielding (as far as i know he's getting x focus for each succesful hit - so 2 fast hitting weapons are best for him) - it may be just my (wrong) impression. Other choice and possibly the best is heavy-armoured chanter (you should stick to the front anyway to buff your companions and debuff enemies).

 

Wizard defensive spells and close-combat buffs are garbage, and although I believe druid shapeshift is being improved, right now it's terrible.

 

IIRC, Ciphers have focus gain based on damage, but they are quite squishy and probably work best with guns.

 

Chanters, as you say, are beasts who get summons and attack spells and lots of other things.

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Going to have to agree on Cipher. I've played the BB numerous times as a Cipher (since I typically play a battlemage as well), both in melee and range, and they work well. I actually enjoyed playing melee more than ranged since, well, range is kind of boring (and a 2H greatsword on fire from the soul whip is pretty cool looking). That said, I'll probably main a ranged Cipher when the game releases since I'll be using companions in melee. I also like the Cipher as the main character since they can manipulate souls in conversations, which leads to some neat dialog options.

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Or, a melee class specialized in Lore and Scroll slinging.

 

Damn... This Eldoth dude is like Agent Smith

 

 

 

Chanter with high Intellect and Lore. You can cast spells from scrolls and it doesn't stop your chant counter from building. It is slightly better for melee than the Cipher. Either class works though.

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Or, a melee class specialized in Lore and Scroll slinging.

 

Damn... This Eldoth dude is like Agent Smith

 

 

Chanter with high Intellect and Lore. You can cast spells from scrolls and it doesn't stop your chant counter from building. It is slightly better for melee than the Cipher. Either class works though.

 

 

Could be interesting!

I think scrolls in general have much going for them. Theyre not restricted by per-encounter and/or rest, and they can apparently be both crafted, bought or stolen.

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Seems to me ciphers would be good using reach weapons like pikes. Have the melee guy's up front, have the ranged guys in the back shooting and casting, have the cipher poking over the melee peoples shoulders with a reach weapon. He get's focus, cast's spells, and all of that without being in direct melee.

Of course I haven't played the backer beta. This is just what I've picked up from thinking about what I've heard.

Edited by Katarack21
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Seems to me ciphers would be good using reach weapons like pikes. Have the melee guy's up front, have the ranged guys in the back shooting and casting, have the cipher poking over the melee peoples shoulders with a reach weapon. He get's focus, cast's spells, and all of that without being in direct melee.

 

Of course I haven't played the backer beta. This is just what I've picked up from thinking about what I've heard.

Remember though that some spells have cone-like area of effect or line ahead of the caster area of effect - so each time you'd like to cast those you'd have to reposition not to damage your companions in the process - so i'm thinking that either actively searching for good place ranged cipher or close range cipher flanking the enemy are way to go. What do you think about this?

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Seems to me ciphers would be good using reach weapons like pikes. Have the melee guy's up front, have the ranged guys in the back shooting and casting, have the cipher poking over the melee peoples shoulders with a reach weapon. He get's focus, cast's spells, and all of that without being in direct melee.

 

Of course I haven't played the backer beta. This is just what I've picked up from thinking about what I've heard.

Remember though that some spells have cone-like area of effect or line ahead of the caster area of effect - so each time you'd like to cast those you'd have to reposition not to damage your companions in the process - so i'm thinking that either actively searching for good place ranged cipher or close range cipher flanking the enemy are way to go. What do you think about this?

 

I'm not sure. Having not played the BB, I don't know for positive how the engagement system works; if I'm behind a melee tank, and the melee tank is fighting a spider while I poke over the tank with my pike at the spider, then am I still "engaged" with the spider though I'm not on the front line? If I move off to reposition myself for a specific spell, will the spider get a disengagement attack on me?

 

There's also the fact of having multiple weapon sets to carry around; you get two, right? I'd carry a reach weapon and a ranged weapon, so I could alter depending on the layout and the enemies. Sometimes I might want to be in the mid-back, poking with my pike and casting buffs/single target attacks; other times I might want to be more mobile, using a ranged weapon and AoE spells to attack different targets from different angles and positions. Spell selection is always important; you want to make sure you have a decent mixture of AoE and single-target as you can get so have the options open for different situations. Sometimes you want to cone-blast groups; other times you want to single-target somebody who is surrounded by three of your melee party members.

 

Of course this is all theory; in reality my first cipher is going to be up in peoples faces with a hatchet and a stiletto, because I want to play a specific role. :devil:

Edited by Katarack21
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You are not engaged at that point, no. The engagement area is only slightly larger than the selection circles.

 

However, DarkWanderer's comments about the Cipher are somewhat misleading. Ciphers require a vessel to channel their spell through, and the majority of their spells are not friendly fire. Because of this, the position of the Cipher on the battlefield is not as important as with many other casters. So, a Cipher pikeman is perfectly functional.

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"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


[slap Aloth]

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I'm not sure. Having not played the BB, I don't know for positive how the engagement system works; if I'm behind a melee tank, and the melee tank is fighting a spider while I poke over the tank with my pike at the spider, then am I still "engaged" with the spider though I'm not on the front line? If I move off to reposition myself for a specific spell, will the spider get a disengagement attack on me?

Its a two-way system. Most units got an engagement limit of 1. So if you attack an enemy, the combatants will engage one another. If you then come up with a 3rd combatant, that character can move about freely, since the enemy is already occupied with the first one. If the enemy decided to move, however, both your characters would get extra attacks of oppportunity.

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You are not engaged at that point, no. The engagement area is only slightly larger than the selection circles.

 

However, DarkWanderer's comments about the Cipher are somewhat misleading. Ciphers require a vessel to channel their spell through, and the majority of their spells are not friendly fire. Because of this, the position of the Cipher on the battlefield is not as important as with many other casters. So, a Cipher pikeman is perfectly functional.

I want to chime in here and say that despite any potential issues with PoE that keeps being brought up, build variety is not one of them. Almost all classes do very well as either melee or ranged, with light weapons or heavy weapons, and with extended weapons or not. Yes, the balance is a bit wonky (I'm looking at you, light weapons) but overall, "Can I do well with X type of weapon?" is a question that is not very relevant in PoE, because the answer is practically always yes.

 

So yeah, a Cipher pikeman works pretty well.

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