Godlike pointless?

[budyn]

can someone tell me what passive nature godlike had in latest beta update?

[rjshae]

@Hieronymous: It's not that these are game-breaking issues, or that they'll prevent you from doing alright in game. Certainly the presence of these issues isn't going to prevent me from playing. Running a suboptimal build is not a death sentence, not even on PotD. What irritates me is that it's bad design, and more importantly, that it's a trap. In a game where all choices are presented as having approximately equal value - and PoE is such a game - the presence of choices that are clearly inferior (even if that inferiority isn't severe) is a problem. It's one thing for informed players to go in saying, "okay, I know godlike are subpar, but I'm going to play one anyway." It's genuinely problematic for uninformed players to stumble onto that realization, however.

 

How is this even close to bad design? At worst it's imperfectly balanced, but that hardly comes close to a game-breaking issue. It's the age of hyperbole.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

@Hieronymous: It's not that these are game-breaking issues, or that they'll prevent you from doing alright in game. Certainly the presence of these issues isn't going to prevent me from playing. Running a suboptimal build is not a death sentence, not even on PotD. What irritates me is that it's bad design, and more importantly, that it's a trap. In a game where all choices are presented as having approximately equal value - and PoE is such a game - the presence of choices that are clearly inferior (even if that inferiority isn't severe) is a problem. It's one thing for informed players to go in saying, "okay, I know godlike are subpar, but I'm going to play one anyway." It's genuinely problematic for uninformed players to stumble onto that realization, however.

 

 

That's the thing though -- I think because of the buff stacking limitations, lack of a head slot may not be as big of a thing as it would be. You can only stack so many buffs.

 

I do agree it would be nice if the stat buffs were partially based on the underlying race and thus more modal.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[gkathellar]

 

@Hieronymous: It's not that these are game-breaking issues, or that they'll prevent you from doing alright in game. Certainly the presence of these issues isn't going to prevent me from playing. Running a suboptimal build is not a death sentence, not even on PotD. What irritates me is that it's bad design, and more importantly, that it's a trap. In a game where all choices are presented as having approximately equal value - and PoE is such a game - the presence of choices that are clearly inferior (even if that inferiority isn't severe) is a problem. It's one thing for informed players to go in saying, "okay, I know godlike are subpar, but I'm going to play one anyway." It's genuinely problematic for uninformed players to stumble onto that realization, however.

 

How is this even close to bad design? At worst it's imperfectly balanced, but that hardly comes close to a game-breaking issue. It's the age of hyperbole.

 

 

I say, at the beginning of the post, that it is not a game-breaking issue, but rather a balance issue and a trap. Maybe the bold will help.

 

That's the thing though -- I think because of the buff stacking limitations, lack of a head slot may not be as big of a thing as it would be. You can only stack so many buffs.

 

Not really the point. It could definitely be worse, you're right, and it may or may not be a big deal in practice ... but it's definitely not as advertised, and in a complicated game like this one, that's problematic.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

We don't know that it's a trap though? I mean yes it's a penalty but Sawyer apparently buffed all the Godlike racials except Moon since last patch. And it's perfectly possible, due to the stacking rules, that a 12th-level endpoint Godlike character with maxed gear will be just as good as a 12th-level maxed (other race), because there may not be any helmet in the game that gives a bonus you can't replicate with other gear. Sure, one character might find a +2 Might helmet, but you can put +2 might on a breastplate, etc.

 

If this game had more standard item rules it would be a significant gap because (for example) you might be trying to get a +2 might item in every slot and being one slot short would mean you'd end up 2 might lower at endgame. But here the stacking rules mean you're only going to be, at most, 2-4 points or so above base #'s in any stat. Lack of a +2 bonus to a given stat is probably more of a "penalty" than lack of the headslot is, because that's actually a long-term hit to your max ability score in a way that absence of a slot isn't. 

 

The only way lack of a headslot is a trap option is if there are helms in game that give bonuses you can't get any other way, like if the only +3 Might item in the whole game is a helmet or something. But there's no evidence for that yet.

 

Even now there are a few specific builds for which Godlike is at least arguably the best / a best / as-good-as-anything-else choice (death godlike bleak walker paladin; fire godlike monk). Once we see the final tweaks and know the full item lists you might turn out to be right, but I think it's premature to declare godlikes a trap option period right now.

 

can someone tell me what passive nature godlike had in latest beta update?

 

It's been tweaked since the last beta -- Sawyer put in unspecified changes that we'll only see in the release day patch. Presumably it'll be similar to the existing bonus which was a stat bonus when below 50% endurance.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Oneiromancer]

I don't have much of a problem with how balanced the racials are per se, even though I think racials are usually a bad idea because you need to balance them not just against other racials but for every single class too, which makes it overly complicated imo. I do have a problem with how boring some of the racials are. I wish more of them were like the Island Aumaua or Fire Godlike ones instead of just "You get a small buff at 50% endurance" (Humans, Nature Godlikes) or "You have a slightly higher chance to resist this type of debuff" (Coastal Aumaua, Mountain Dwarf). Some of them don't even make that much sense to me (are coastal aumauas really that much bigger than Island ones?). Just nitpicking I guess 

Edited March 24, 2015 by Oneiromancer

[Voss]

Obviously playing a godlike character will have some kind of effect on the story and how NPCs react to you, but from a pure gameplay perspective they seem rather weak. They loose the ability to use helmets just for some racial ability which isn't much better than the abilities the other races get, and they only get +1 to dex and res. It would make some kind of sense if they get that + whatever stat bonuses their parent race gets, but instead it replaces them. This means a godlike dwarf would actually be weaker than a regular one, and that makes them feel very un-godlike to me.

 

I'm not the only one who feels they're gimped, right?

Correct. Gimped, ugly and silly. I'd argue the background is horrible too, though the rationale behind making the 'bad-touched' race look like nuclear mutants on top escapes me entirely.

[Terodemmah]

I just wanna rid the world of those weird looking things. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by Terodemmah

[BrainMuncher]

I don't think not being able to wear helmets has anything to do with balance. It's because it would be too much work to make a bajillion helmet models to suit every type of head.

[wickermoon]

I don't think not being able to wear helmets has anything to do with balance. It's because it would be too much work to make a bajillion helmet models to suit every type of head.

It would be about 8 new helmets at most. No, I think there's a lore-reason.

 

But I find it hilarious that people complain about the "big" trade-off of not wearing any helmets, while there's no indication that there will be helmets much more powerful than what the godlike abilities provide. The helmets I've seen so far are pure asthetics.

[Luckmann]

I don't think not being able to wear helmets has anything to do with balance. It's because it would be too much work to make a bajillion helmet models to suit every type of head.

 

Of course there's a balance aspect to it. Because while entirely true that the reason they don't have helmets is probably partly because they don't want to make the extra helmets, it also wouldn't make sense that helmets just suddenly morphed to fit whomever wanted to wear them. But the balance aspect is that Godlikes doesn't get helmets - it doesn't matter why - and therefore are explicitly meant to have more powerful racials, yet it doesn't add up at all.

 

It would be about 8 new helmets at most. No, I think there's a lore-reason.

 

But I find it hilarious that people complain about the "big" trade-off of not wearing any helmets, while there's no indication that there will be helmets much more powerful than what the godlike abilities provide. The helmets I've seen so far are pure asthetics.

That's because you are a terrible person and haven't checked the thread. There are multiple helmets in the game with bonuses, including bonuses to Attributes.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[Grinsevent]

 There may be some special Godlike helmet (flower crown or whatever) you could get in the game ... Who knows ? 

[Luckmann]

 There may be some special Godlike helmet (flower crown or whatever) you could get in the game ... Who knows ? 

 

No. Godlikes do not have a helmet equipment slot. Also, we've had access to most of the items in the game through spawning in the console.

 

Although I must say that I do appreciate the idea of a flower on the head of a deathlike.

[Voss]

I don't think not being able to wear helmets has anything to do with balance. It's because it would be too much work to make a bajillion helmet models to suit every type of head.

That isn't how helmets work on models. You swap to a bald feaureless head and pop on the helm.

[Elerond]

Godlikes can't wear helmets/hats/hoods because they (people in PoE team) had idea during kickstarter that there should be similar race like planetouched in PoE and one of their defining characteristics is that they have horns and other things growing from their head that prevent them using any helmets (which changed latter to any head gear) . And this decision of course lead to current predicament that their racial bonuses should probably balance the fact that they can't use headgear, but on other hand most of the headgear is just cosmetic (although some cosmetic headgear has non-combat effects) and those that aren't cosmetic don't give much of bonuses, which gives probably some problems in when it comes to balancing their racial bonuses and this balancing probably will cause problems in possible sequel.

[BrainMuncher]

 

I don't think not being able to wear helmets has anything to do with balance. It's because it would be too much work to make a bajillion helmet models to suit every type of head.

That isn't how helmets work on models. You swap to a bald feaureless head and pop on the helm.

 

Which would look wierd if your giant horns suddenly vanished when you donned a helmet

 

It would be about 8 new helmets at most. No, I think there's a lore-reason.

It would be 8 times as many helmets as there already are. Instead of just one great helm model, you'd have normal great helm, great helm with type 1 horns, great helm with type 2 horns, etc.

[Luckmann]

Godlikes can't wear helmets/hats/hoods because they (people in PoE team) had idea during kickstarter that there should be similar race like planetouched in PoE and one of their defining characteristics is that they have horns and other things growing from their head that prevent them using any helmets (which changed latter to any head gear) . And this decision of course lead to current predicament that their racial bonuses should probably balance the fact that they can't use headgear, but on other hand most of the headgear is just cosmetic (although some cosmetic headgear has non-combat effects) and those that aren't cosmetic don't give much of bonuses, which gives probably some problems in when it comes to balancing their racial bonuses and this balancing probably will cause problems in possible sequel.

 

I would think it would be a bigger problem at lower levels, when the impact of small modifiers are greater, than in a sequel, where the potential +Attribute and other modifiers from helmets would have a lesser impact.

[Voss]

 

 

I don't think not being able to wear helmets has anything to do with balance. It's because it would be too much work to make a bajillion helmet models to suit every type of head.

That isn't how helmets work on models. You swap to a bald feaureless head and pop on the helm.

 

Which would look wierd if your giant horns suddenly vanished when you donned a helmet

 

Well, yes.  But it is commonly done for excessive hairstyles, and prevents the multiplicative effective of doing multiple helmets just for special snowflake heads.  Or the boring route of 'the gods decree no headgear for freaks'  (or boots, as some other game developers have done)

[Reever]

And you guys just noticed this now? =(

I still want my Godlike Cypher to kick some ass (or rip some souls) :D

[Luckmann]

And you guys just noticed this now? =(

I still want my Godlike Cypher to kick some ass (or rip some souls) :D

 

It's not that it wasn't noticed just now, it's more that it was all in flux until about now, I would say. The issue wasn't covered extensively until it became an issue, so to say.

[Hellraiser789]

Can anyone confirm what changes have been made to the Godlike's abilities? I know someone mentioned Sawyer was giving them a buff on release day and I was wondering what it was, since the Wiki hasn't been updated and no one mentioned it (that I'm aware of)

[RevBlue]

I don't know. I took a nature godlike for my wizard PC. I like the attributes bonuses it gives when below 50% endurance

[Reever]

So I made my Cipher an Orlan Deadlike (and used a normal Orlan portrait since it didn't have the Horned Head I chose :D). I'm actually a bit disappointed people haven't been more scared of me yet...maybe that's still to come?

[Kaldurenik]

From my experience now its not worth playing a godlike, there are hardly any RP reasons even when you get a companion that is a godlike you (i guess) have the same questions as a non-godlike. The race stats / buffs are not good enough to make you not want to use a helm. Besides... Why would your character NOT be able to use a helm? I get that there is a "standard" type of helm within the game world but... just walk into random smith and say that you want a custom helm.

 

Is there a reason as to why a smith would not want to do it?

[grubfisher]

I've been a little disappointmented with it. I've had about two people notice that I'm godlike. One was a random child, the other was a random prostitute. And that was it. It hasn't factored into RP at all. I expected some kind of.. I dunno.. reticence? Fear? Anything? It said moon godlikes were noted for bringing good luck, but no one has even TALKED about this. I haven't even met any important godlikes, and I feel like I'm really far into the storyline.

 

Maybe Eora is just... really progressive racially towards Godlikes?

 

Kinda wish I'd picked any other race. At least then I could wear my own enchanted helmets.