Paladins - Support only?

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

One paladin build I've seen discussed a lot and plan to try at some point on release is a Bleak Walker arquebusier paladin with flames of devotion and the accuracy modal. Open combat by one-shotting the weakest enemy then wade in with a big weapon.

[MasterPrudent]

 

 

I'm thinking of having a fighter as the main tank and a paladin with a greatsword for melee damage. Or is the paladin better suited to tanking due to his abilities?

 

 

 

Fighter is fine as a tank but Paladin is optimal IMO. Fighters are better damage but they won't have Paladin level defenses.

Why do you say Paladins are the optimal tanks? Fighters and paladins start with the same base endurance/health and deflection and fighters get a bunch of abilities like guardian stance, defender, vigerous defense and so on that do wonders for its and its party's ability to shrug off damage.

Edited March 21, 2015 by MasterPrudent

[gkathellar]

Basically, it comes down to Faith and Conviction being sick.

[Luckmann]

And it should be noted that while Fighters get all those nice abilities that assists in tanking, you don't actually need them to tank. You just sorta place the tank there and he'll tank.

Personally, I'd still prefer a Fighter for tanking, just for those abilities, but you don't really need them at all for the role, no.

[Azmodiuz]

don't forget fighters regenerate endurance steadily in combat too.

[Judicator]

 

 

 

I'm thinking of having a fighter as the main tank and a paladin with a greatsword for melee damage. Or is the paladin better suited to tanking due to his abilities?

 

 

 

Fighter is fine as a tank but Paladin is optimal IMO. Fighters are better damage but they won't have Paladin level defenses.

Why do you say Paladins are the optimal tanks? Fighters and paladins start with the same base endurance/health and deflection and fighters get a bunch of abilities like guardian stance, defender, vigerous defense and so on that do wonders for its and its party's ability to shrug off damage.

 

Probably because of the save bonuses?

[Odd Hermit]

 

 

 

I'm thinking of having a fighter as the main tank and a paladin with a greatsword for melee damage. Or is the paladin better suited to tanking due to his abilities?

 

 

 

Fighter is fine as a tank but Paladin is optimal IMO. Fighters are better damage but they won't have Paladin level defenses.

Why do you say Paladins are the optimal tanks? Fighters and paladins start with the same base endurance/health and deflection and fighters get a bunch of abilities like guardian stance, defender, vigerous defense and so on that do wonders for its and its party's ability to shrug off damage.

 

 

 

It's because of their defenses(Fort/Reflex/Will). You can have high enough deflection on other classes, but if you're getting debuffs stacked on you, there goes your deflection. Paladin has access to high saves from the start - Monk defenses can get high too but they're a very hard class to build and they're weak at low levels IMHO.

 

[Mysh]

Hi guys,

 

I've tried to communicate some Paladin builds on steam, but feedback was entirely disappointing. Here are a couple of suggestions.

 

Please let me know what you think.

 

Cheers

 

 

-----

 

If you belong to the people that think that builds and roleplaying can never go together, then surely this discussion is not for you. As for me, I love both, and I dislike MMORPGs, so I say maybe you want to give builds a chance.

So let's star! Just like always in DnD Paladin class seems to be lacking behind. Well, what if you have a Paladin fantasy like me and you really want to roleplay them, but at the same time your nerd side is being distracted by their inefficiency? Well, we got to try our best to make them work...

Before communicating my ideas, I would like to put it as clear as I can, that I was not a beta tester, and have no clear understanding how the leveling system works. To make things worse for us, it seems PE wikia for Paladins is not up-to-date. After watching youtube videos I came up to the conclusion that you can choose a skill/per level, while some skills are only available at higher levels.

Well people may come up and tell me that I am completely wrong here... and please feel free to do so.

Below I have highlighted some builds I was thiking of. Some skills, which I really liked but thought they will probably work better on a Fighter are the Interrupting Blows (higher chance for cast disrput) and Hold the Line (+1 engagement limit). What do you think?

PS Numbers do not indicate a specific level, and they are completely arbitrary.

Blackguard of Death
Role: Finisher/Smite/ Front Line /Aura Support
Race: Death Godlike (Death's Usher: synergy with Inspiring Triumph)
Order: Bleak Walkers

Major Attributes: MIG, DEX, INT

Minor Attributes: CON, PER, RES

 

1. Flames of Devotion (FoD)
2. Intense Flames (+FoD damage)
3. FoD: +1 extra use 
4. Scion of Flame (increases burn DoT and damage)
5. Remember Rakhan Field (Bleak Walkers: + FoD corrode dmg)
6. Spirit of Decay (increases corrode DoT and damage)
7. Zealous Focus (ZF) (+aura accuracy)
8. Critical Focus (ZF +aura 5% crits)
9. Sworn Enemy (+10 accuracy and +20% damage against single enemy)
10. Deep Faith (+FaC, +defense)
11. Inspiring Triumph (+deflection on allies per finish) 
12. Envenomed Strike (+poison damage, RP reasons) / The Black Path (synergy with IT, RP reasons) / Savage Attack (+damage, RP reasons) / Weapon and Shield Style (+deflection, +reflex)

Blackguard of Fire
Role: Smite/Front Line/Aura Support/Healer
Race: Fire Godlike (Battle-Forged: burn DoT)
Order: Bleak Walkers

Major Attributes: MIG, DEX, INT

Minor Attributes: CON, PER, RES

 

1. Flames of Devotion (FoD)
2. Intense Flames (+FoD damage)
3. FoD: +1 extra use 
4. Scion of Flame (increases burn DoT and damage)
5. Remember Rakhan Field (Bleak Walkers: + FoD corrode dmg)
6. Spirit of Decay (increases corrode DoT and damage)
7. Zealous Focus (ZF) (+aura accuracy)
8. Critical Focus (ZF +aura 5% crits)
9. Sworn Enemy (+10 accuracy and +20% damage against single enemy)
10. Deep Faith (+FaC, +defense)
11. Lay on Hands (healing)
12. Greater Lay on Hands (+healing)

Crusader
Role: (Smite/Tank/Aura Support/Healer)
Race: Fire Godlike (Battle-Forged: burn DoT)
Order: Goldpact Knights / Darcozzi Paladini

Major Attributes: All around (balanced build may benefit from all)

1. Flames of Devotion (FoD)
2. Intense Flames (+FoD damage)
3. FoD: +1 extra use 
4. Scion of Flame (increases burn DoT and damage)
5. Enduring Flames (Goldpact Knights, FoD +burn DoT) / Fires of Darcozzi Palace (Darcozzi Paladini, FoD +burn DoT)
6. Zealous Focus (ZF) (+aura accuracy)
7. Critical Focus (ZF +aura 5% crits)
8. Sworn Enemy (+10 accuracy and +20% damage against single enemy)
9. Deep Faith (+FaC, +defense)
10. Weapon and Shield Style (+deflection, +reflex)
11. Lay on Hands (heal)
12. Greater Lay on Hands (+heal)

Angel of Light
Role: Support/Tank
Race: Moon Godlike (Silver Tide: extra healing), or Pale Elf, or Coastal Aumaua (if you want the helmet bonus and the additional resistances are nice)
Order: Shieldbearers of St. Elcga

Major Attributes: CON, INT, PER, RES

Minor Attributes: MIG, DEX (seem irrelevant for a purely support/tank role, wouldn't heavily invest in them, but wouldn't go negative either)

1. Lay on Hands (heal)
2. Greater Lay on Hands (+heal)
3. Shielding Touch (Shieldbearers of St. Elcga: stacks with greater lay on hands: +10 deflection bonus on ally)
4. Reviving Exhortation (revive)
5. Zealous Endurance (+aura damage reduction)
6. Liberating Exhortation (suspends disables on ally) 
7. Deprive the Unworthy (suspends enemy buffs)
8. Reinforcing Exhortation (+ deflection for ally)
9. Hastening Exhortation (+ attack speed for ally)
10. Deep Faith (+FaC, +defense)
11. Weapon and Shield Style (+deflection, +reflexes)
12. Superior Deflection (+deflection) / Cautious Attack (+deflection)

Guardian of Light
Role: Tank/Support/Smite
Race: Moon Godlike (Silver Tide: extra healing), or Pale Elf, or Coastal Aumaua (if you want the helmet bonus and the additional resistances are nice)
Order: Kind Wayfarers

Major Attributes: All around (balanced build may benefit from all)

1. Lay on Hands (heal)
2. Greater Lay on Hands (+heal)
3. Reviving Exhortation (revive)
4. Zealous Endurance (+aura damage reduction)
5. Deep Faith (+FaC, +defense)
6. Weapon and Shield Style (+deflection, +reflexes)
7. Sworn Enemy (+10 accuracy and +20% damage against single enemy)
8. WF Knight (+10 accuracy)
9. Flames of Devotion (FoD)
10. Intense Flames (+FoD damage)
11. FoD: +1 extra use
12. The Sword and the Shepherd (Kind Wayfarers: FoD +heal for allies)

Edited March 22, 2015 by Mysh

[Azmodiuz]

Hi guys,

 

I've tried to communicate some Paladin builds on steam, but feedback was entirely disappointing. Here are a couple of suggestions.

 

Please let me know what you think.

 

Cheers

 

 

-----

 

If you belong to the people that think that builds and roleplaying can never go together, then surely this discussion is not for you. As for me, I love both, and I dislike MMORPGs, so I say maybe you want to give builds a chance.

 

So let's star! Just like always in DnD Paladin class seems to be lacking behind. Well, what if you have a Paladin fantasy like me and you really want to roleplay them, but at the same time your nerd side is being distracted by their inefficiency? Well, we got to try our best to make them work...

 

Before communicating my ideas, I would like to put it as clear as I can, that I was not a beta tester, and have no clear understanding how the leveling system works. To make things worse for us, it seems PE wikia for Paladins is not up-to-date. After watching youtube videos I came up to the conclusion that you can choose a skill/per level, while some skills are only available at higher levels.

 

Well people may come up and tell me that I am completely wrong here... and please feel free to do so. )

 

Below I have highlighted some builds I was thiking of. Some skills, which I really liked but thought they will probably work better on a Fighter are the Interrupting Blows (higher chance for cast disrput) and Hold the Line (+1 engagement limit). What do you think?

 

PS Numbers do not indicate a specific level, and they are completely arbitrary.

 

Blackguard of Death

Role: Finisher/Smite/ Front Line /Aura Support

Race: Death Godlike (Death's Usher: synergy with Inspiring Triumph)

Order: Bleak Walkers

 

1. Flames of Devotion (FoD)

2. Intense Flames (+FoD damage)

3. FoD: +1 extra use 

4. Scion of Flame (increases burn DoT and damage)

5. Remember Rakhan Field (Bleak Walkers: + FoD corrode dmg)

6. Spirit of Decay (increases corrode DoT and damage)

7. Zealous Focus (ZF) (+aura accuracy)

8. Critical Focus (ZF +aura 5% crits)

9. Sworn Enemy (+10 accuracy and +20% damage against single enemy)

10. Deep Faith (+FaC, +defense)

11. Inspiring Triumph (+deflection on allies per finish) 

12. Envenomed Strike (+poison damage, RP reasons) / The Black Path (synergy with IT, RP reasons) / Savage Attack (+damage, RP reasons) / Weapon and Shield Style (+deflection, +reflex)

 

Blackguard of Fire

Role: Smite/Front Line/Aura Support/Healer

Race: Fire Godlike (Battle-Forged: burn DoT)

Order: Bleak Walkers

 

1. Flames of Devotion (FoD)

2. Intense Flames (+FoD damage)

3. FoD: +1 extra use 

4. Scion of Flame (increases burn DoT and damage)

5. Remember Rakhan Field (Bleak Walkers: + FoD corrode dmg)

6. Spirit of Decay (increases corrode DoT and damage)

7. Zealous Focus (ZF) (+aura accuracy)

8. Critical Focus (ZF +aura 5% crits)

9. Sworn Enemy (+10 accuracy and +20% damage against single enemy)

10. Deep Faith (+FaC, +defense)

11. Lay on Hands (healing)

12. Greater Lay on Hands (+healing)

 

Crusader

Role: (Smite/Tank/Aura Support/Healer)

Race: Fire Godlike (Battle-Forged: burn DoT)

Order: Goldpact Knights / Darcozzi Paladini

 

1. Flames of Devotion (FoD)

2. Intense Flames (+FoD damage)

3. FoD: +1 extra use 

4. Scion of Flame (increases burn DoT and damage)

5. Enduring Flames (Goldpact Knights, FoD +burn DoT) / Fires of Darcozzi Palace (Darcozzi Paladini, FoD +burn DoT)

6. Zealous Focus (ZF) (+aura accuracy)

7. Critical Focus (ZF +aura 5% crits)

8. Sworn Enemy (+10 accuracy and +20% damage against single enemy)

9. Deep Faith (+FaC, +defense)

10. Weapon and Shield Style (+deflection, +reflex)

11. Lay on Hands (heal)

12. Greater Lay on Hands (+heal)

 

Angel of Light

Role: Support/Tank

Race: Moon Godlike (Silver Tide: extra healing)

Order: Shieldbearers of St. Elcga

 

1. Lay on Hands (heal)

2. Greater Lay on Hands (+heal)

3. Shielding Touch (Shieldbearers of St. Elcga: stacks with greater lay on hands: +10 deflection bonus on ally)

4. Reviving Exhortation (revive)

5. Zealous Endurance (+aura damage reduction)

6. Liberating Exhortation (suspends disables on ally) 

7. Deprive the Unworthy (suspends enemy buffs)

8. Reinforcing Exhortation (+ deflection for ally)

9. Hastening Exhortation (+ attack speed for ally)

10. Deep Faith (+FaC, +defense)

11. Weapon and Shield Style (+deflection, +reflexes)

12. Superior Deflection (+deflection) / Cautious Attack (+deflection)

 

Guardian of Light

Role: Tank/Support/Smite

Race: Moon Godlike (Silver Tide: extra healing)

Order: Kind Wayfarers

 

1. Lay on Hands (heal)

2. Greater Lay on Hands (+heal)

3. Reviving Exhortation (revive)

4. Zealous Endurance (+aura damage reduction)

5. Deep Faith (+FaC, +defense)

6. Weapon and Shield Style (+deflection, +reflexes)

7. Sworn Enemy (+10 accuracy and +20% damage against single enemy)

8. WF Knight (+10 accuracy)

9. Flames of Devotion (FoD)

10. Intense Flames (+FoD damage)

11. FoD: +1 extra use

12. The Sword and the Shepherd (Kind Wayfarers: FoD +heal for allies)

If you are not a beta backer, where do you get all this class information from ? And I do not think theres a talent every second level or wtvr... I went some levels without getting anything on some characters.

 

Don't plan your build too much, because once you play, things might not be what you think.  Likr you might not like the palladin class in PoE..it is kind of underwhelming and boring compared to the other classes. There was also nothing seen so far that seemed to have anything to do with your race, nevermind class.

 

Seems everything had to do with Skills and attributes. You might want your main character to have high perception, intellignece and resolve, if you are into RP... though there are rp attempts with Might and dexterity too, usually smarts can get you dialogue too if those are present form what ive seen in the beta

Edited March 22, 2015 by Azmodiuz

[Mysh]

A lot of you tube videos and a lot of wikia reading. Doing builds was my hobby back in the day. I also earned some small reputation for it. So, old habits never die...

[Mysh]

A lot of you tube videos and lots of wikia reading. Doing builds was my hobby back in the day. I also earned some small reputation for it. So, old habits never die...

 

EDIT: OK updated adding clues on attributes. I am planning to play the Guardian of Light build with all around stats (fits well on the build and for RP reasons). The build seems diverse can heal, revive, defend and smite good.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Mysh

[Luckmann]

Just to be clear:

• You gain Skill Points every Levelup (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
• You gain 1 Talent every even level (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12)
• You gain 1 Ability or equivalent (Spell level, etc) every odd level (1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11)
• Skill Levels costs a number of Skill Points equal to the level you attain (1st level costs 1 point, 2nd level costs 2, etc)
• The bonus to a Skill gained from Class & Background does not (currently) count towards the above cost
  (i.e. if you have +4 Lore, it costs you 1 Skill Points to raise it to 5, another 2 to raise it to 6, etc).

Edited March 22, 2015 by Luckmann

[Zansatsu]

@Mysh

 

Nothing wrong with theory Crafting a build ahead of time. That's RP to me as much as anything. Who do I want, or more importantly who does my Character want to become. That's part of it for me.

[dunehunter]

As far as i know, paladins are inferior to chanter as supporter and inferior to fighter as tank, and they can't do damages too, really a confusing class. If you are not playing on path of the demand, i think it's ok to play whatever class you want, but for the min/max purpose, paladins are not the best choices imo.

[Luckmann]

As far as i know, paladins are inferior to chanter as supporter and inferior to fighter as tank, and they can't do damages too, really a confusing class. If you are not playing on path of the demand, i think it's ok to play whatever class you want, but for the min/max purpose, paladins are not the best choices imo.

 

I'm inclined to agree with the assertion (Paladins are not the best choice), but speaking strictly from a survivability standpoint as a tank (not the utility), Paladins are beasts when built as tanks.

 

Now, there are other factors, such as utility and Engagement bonuses, and the Fighter steamrolls the Paladin in those regards, but the AI in PoE is dumb as a brick and for most tanking, you really have to just engage with the tank first and they'll pelt him and nothing else. And the Paladin can be absolutely crazy when it comes to survivability in that regard, due to the bonuses they can get on top of the bonuses anyone else would get.

 

Something to keep in mind.

[Judicator]

Speaking of paladin builds, what stats should a paladin focus on? I'm thinking Might, con, and resolve? Using a greatsword most of the time, and switching to a war hammer and shield when the situation calls for it.

[Luckmann]

Speaking of paladin builds, what stats should a paladin focus on? I'm thinking Might, con, and resolve? Using a greatsword most of the time, and switching to a war hammer and shield when the situation calls for it.

 

Depends on the build. From an RP perspective, I want to say Resolve, but honestly, you really should only take Resolve if you are going to tank. Constitution is also largely meaningless, but it's debatable. Might is good for anything that wants to do damage (or heal, but healing in PoE? All the lols).

[Zansatsu]

If they had access to all the paladin class abilities instead of 1 every other level they would certainly have the versatility. Swapping between different modals would nice when defense was needed over dps. Then strengthning the ones you wish to focus on through talents would let you focus one way or the other. Maybe that's to much to ask for but I originally thought that's how it was going to be.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Zansatsu

[Judicator]

 

Speaking of paladin builds, what stats should a paladin focus on? I'm thinking Might, con, and resolve? Using a greatsword most of the time, and switching to a war hammer and shield when the situation calls for it.

 

Depends on the build. From an RP perspective, I want to say Resolve, but honestly, you really should only take Resolve if you are going to tank. Constitution is also largely meaningless, but it's debatable. Might is good for anything that wants to do damage (or heal, but healing in PoE? All the lols).

 

Well, what is left? Dex is out since he's going to be using heavy armor and a 2h weapon. Perception seems not all that usefull except for the deflection. Int is nice, but probably not that good for a paladin, at least not like it would be for a caster or a barb.

[dunehunter]

Hope they dont nerf flame of devotion too much. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by dunehunter

[Bazy]

Yeah, paladins have pretty garbage offense. They make for the best pure tanks, though.

Both of these are very debatable. I would say chanter's are better tanks

[mrmonocle]

my priests and paladins overview

[dunehunter]

 

 

As far as i know, paladins are inferior to chanter as supporter and inferior to fighter as tank, and they can't do damages too, really a confusing class. If you are not playing on path of the demand, i think it's ok to play whatever class you want, but for the min/max purpose, paladins are not the best choices imo.

I'm inclined to agree with the assertion (Paladins are not the best choice), but speaking strictly from a survivability standpoint as a tank (not the utility), Paladins are beasts when built as tanks.

 

Now, there are other factors, such as utility and Engagement bonuses, and the Fighter steamrolls the Paladin in those regards, but the AI in PoE is dumb as a brick and for most tanking, you really have to just engage with the tank first and they'll pelt him and nothing else. And the Paladin can be absolutely crazy when it comes to survivability in that regard, due to the bonuses they can get on top of the bonuses anyone else would get.

 

Something to keep in mind.

When building a tank, you have to concern multiple factors, defense attributes, self healing and etc... Though paladins have better fortitude, reflex and will defensive, their physical defense is worse than fighters, not only because fighters can reduce incoming criticals to hits, hits to graze, but also do they have much better self healing abilities, unbending and constant recovery is much better than lay on hand in later games, when you are in higher levels, your tanks will likely to have 200+ endurance, how will lay on hand, which only heals 50 endurance make any difference?

 

Paladins lack of self healing especially instant casting healing, which make them not efficient to be main tank, only off tank. You may argue its a team game other than solo, but its true paladins lack the power to stand on battle, they need healers to support them tanking.

 

Not to mention fighters have lots of CC to help control battlefield. The only thing paladins can do better is that they can revive others, which is regard to support abilities, not tanking. And that's because priest can't revive like they can in DND games, if priest have a similar revive spell, paladins will be totally worse in each roles IMO.

 

As I said, paladins are very confusing now, they can't be shining in the place they should be and you really don't have other choices to build them in other ways, want to build a more offensive build? No way cause Obsidian said they are supports.

Edited March 24, 2015 by dunehunter

[dunehunter]

About tanking multple enemies, I built a high level fighter, paladin, barbarian and monk yesterday, and let them tank Meredith's party seperately. What I find is fighter, even barbaran and monk tank better than paladins when facing multiple enemies. Offense is the best defense, my barbarian and monk kills faster than dying due to their beasty AOE damage. And of four classes, paladins have to worst healing abilities, or CC to make them safe.

[gkathellar]

About tanking multple enemies, I built a high level fighter, paladin, barbarian and monk yesterday, and let them tank Meredith's party seperately. What I find is fighter, even barbaran and monk tank better than paladins when facing multiple enemies. Offense is the best defense, my barbarian and monk kills faster than dying due to their beasty AOE damage. And of four classes, paladins have to worst healing abilities, or CC to make them safe.

 

That's odd, because my own experience with tanky paladins has been that they are fantastic. Mind you, they can't kill anything at all, but they can soak it up like nothing else while your killers do the work. What kind of build were you using?