My hopes for PoE after Playing Dragon Age Inquisition

[Voss]

Mm, I don't think you can even compare the DA games with one another. Origins was superb, Da2 a serious disapointment and things got a whole lot worse with Inquisition.

Entirely disagree.  2 had a few problems (particularly the lame boss fights, and in chapter 3, the never-ending tide of abominations), but I find it to be the best game of the series, with a focused story that moves along at a decent pace.  Origins was a hot mess of generic fantasy cliches (yay, the orc expies get a darker-than-tolkien backstory.  What an achievement), terrible UI, pointles sidequesting, tiresome characters and very tedious gameplay. As much as Inquisition disappointed me, I thought it better than Origins; though for some reason it forgot the good elements of 2, focusing even more on the obsessive grind than Origins and favoring even more empty content.

[Emerwyn]

Mm, I don't think you can even compare the DA games with one another. Origins was superb, Da2 a serious disapointment and things got a whole lot worse with Inquisition. 

 

It's incredible how strongly I can disagree with someone. I mean, this sounds to me as if someone was ponting at a cat and saying "that's a cow". And I'd be "dude, what are you smoking? That's a cat". - "No, it's a cow".

 

It's funny how different opinions can people have. All of them respectable, of course, so long they don't attempt to make it look as if their opinion is the superior one and anyone that doesn't think like them has some kind of mental deviation that doesn't allow them to see their truth.

 

Either way, I'm fine with people thinking DA:I was crap for them, though my 200 hours of enjoyable gameplay tell me I felt differently. Of course it wasn't all great, as I mentioned elsewhere, I hated how console-y the game controls feel, plus there were a number of annoying bugs at launch (that to be completely fair got killed patch after patch), but the day I see the storytelling and voice-acting that Bioware games have elsewhere, I'll be glad to say that game is up to their level. 

 

From last year, only Divinity: Original Sin and Shadowrun: Dragonfall managed to grasp me the way DA:I did. Which by the way, Skyrim never managed with its bland and dull way to get you into the whole Dragonborn thing, and mess you up with hundreds of pointless and insignificant dungeons to clear out. To me, the soundtrack was better than the game itself.

 

Anyway, here's hoping that PoE will deliver. I had hoped so from Wasteland 2 as well, and that one failed miserably. In Obsidian we trust.

[Mannock]

I played a fair bit of DA:I until I got bored and quit. It had some redeeming qualities -- looked good, environments were thoughtfully designed, it worked technically well, some the characters were well written and voiced, most of the quests, areas, and other content in it were well-grounded in the lore of the world, and the conceit of the Inquisition tied things up with a nice little ribbon -- but gawd was the gameplay just dull. Spam spam spam spam spam, endless mountains of same-y loot, endless collect-5-of-this, 10-of-that quests, and so on and so forth.

 

If they had put, like, one-tenth of the effort that went into those environments and put it into making the gameplay – what you're actually doing when you're playing the game – engaging, it would've been a pretty good game. As it is, it's utterly forgettable. I'm not BioWare's biggest fan, but I have enjoyed many of their games, and I really really really hope this isn't how they'll all play from now on because it'd be such a huge waste.

 

I agree completely.

 

To me it feels as if they cramed the MMORPG concept on a single player RPG. After 50 hours I was really bored but at the same time  I wanted to finish the game. After 77 hours I just quit. I couldn't force myself to play anymore. The quests were just so dull. It was like the Vietnam war; a quagmire. The more I marched on the deeper I sank. Some good moments but overall it had a very flawed design.

[Lephys]

...well there is no grinding in PoE so you are saved

That's not true! The first building you come to in Dyrford Village is a mill! 6_u

[Grotesque]

"Playing for 60 hours to finish a game is ok... but having to play for 150 hours is too much"

 

stopped reading here

au revoir

[Ohioastro]

I refused to buy DA:I because the early reviews made it clear that it was a pure console port. And the idea of MMO like quests also didn't appeal. I really liked DA;O. The fights were tactically interesting, the story was reasonable by Bioware standards, and character development was solid. DA2: my God, but I hated that game. Recycled environments, insultingly easy (or easy but tedious on 'hard') combat, and repulsive factions (Nazis vs demons. Can't they both lose?). Add in that your choices didn't matter, and even interesting concepts like the Quinari couldn't save.). For the record, also enjoyed Divinity; OS and Wasteland 2.

[PBJam]

I didnt like DA:Inquisition that much

 

Pillars of Eternity will be a much better game

[Failion]

lol walking and collecting rocks and plants simulator. DAI had some fun things to it but its gameplay for the most part was ****. If PoE does worse obsidian should switch to games to fast food company.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Failion

[Voss]

Mmm.  The Obsidian Burger.  now with 50% extra bug-meat.

[Verenti]

I'm thankful that so many people here can see DA:I was ****. It's like they took out the ability to talk to most people outside of your stronghold and watered down the main quest line (which was decent), making what should have been quest arcs (civil war, siege of Adamantine) into single quests. Most of the game content is filler, as is observed here. The fact they used zynga tactics to make the game take longer is not quality. It's inflated quantity. They locked content away behind the power point system, because if you played the main quests (which are of paramount importance!) back to back, the game would have taken about six hours to complete.  On top of this, the game is a poorly stitched together mess. When I had to choose the fate of the warden, being vague as to not "spoil" this game, and I chose the other option, the resulting scene was obvious written for another character, with said character's reaction being more fitting were they a warden. While there are a lot of references to previous game experience, it feels like little you do in this game actually matters-- not that you really have much choice outside of a few binary (or trinary) choices, usually involving life and death.

 

It is a disgusting devolution of the rpg tradition of Bioware to appeal to-- what I am about to say will be insulting, but I don't mean it directly against anyone present personally-- people too stupid to see through their cheap gimmicks. It's a scam designed to prey on human fallibility. It's marketing at it's worst. It's a simply-the-facts study of what works in our most vile part of the industry ("free-to-play") and the application of those same mechanics designed to addict people and hide the non-games they use to exploit people. It's immoral. I can't help but liken the ruthless pragmatism in the incorporation of these tactics to testing nerve gas on live subjects. "This one work 3.06% faster. Be sure to use it as the base in the next trial."

 

Yes, I know this all very dramatic. Some people are quite dramatic, and that's not necessarily a negative trait.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Verenti

[Voss]

It is a disgusting devolution of the rpg tradition of Bioware to appeal to-- what I am about to say will be insulting, but I don't mean it directly against anyone present personally-- people too stupid to see through their cheap gimmicks. It's a scam designed to prey on human fallibility. It's marketing at it's worst. It's a simply-the-facts study of what works in our most vile part of the industry

I disagree with this.  It isn't a scam, it gives the majority exactly what they ask for: shiny with no depth.   They don't want to understand the math under the hood or have complex stories that might make them uncomfortable, just easy victories and a simple interface. 

[Ted Striker]

I hope the game lasts forever and ever and ever.... and ever. 

And I really hope there aren't a bunch of ridiculous "Romance" quests and story lines in the game. Oh God... the Mass Effect and Dragon Age "Romance" Crap... how awful. It just lowers the quality of gaming to couch potato, Kardashian watching, mouth-breather mentality. 

Edited March 15, 2015 by Ted Striker

[talharbash]

I agree. DA:I length is mostly because of filler content that does not advance the story by much.

 

I also found myself strangely detached from all the major events. With Dragon Age: Origins I actually found myself caring. Logaine felt like a real villain I was looking forward to dealing with until I realized how much of a tragic figure he is etc. None of that in DA:I. Literally, DA:I was all: YOU'RE THE CHOSEN ONE YOU'RE THE CHOSEN ONE... chosen to collect ten bear asses, and decide just how much of a chosen one you are.

[Verenti]

 

It is a disgusting devolution of the rpg tradition of Bioware to appeal to-- what I am about to say will be insulting, but I don't mean it directly against anyone present personally-- people too stupid to see through their cheap gimmicks. It's a scam designed to prey on human fallibility. It's marketing at it's worst. It's a simply-the-facts study of what works in our most vile part of the industry

I disagree with this.  It isn't a scam, it gives the majority exactly what they ask for: shiny with no depth.   They don't want to understand the math under the hood or have complex stories that might make them uncomfortable, just easy victories and a simple interface. 

 

I don't want to understand the math either. Math is disgusting 

 

What I do want is to interact with a world in a reasonably believable manner.  This is a game that is for people who hate RPGs, but is marketed as an RPG. Therefore, I maintain that it is a scam, but I can respect and disagreements anyone might have on my, ahem, passionate position.

[Rhaeg]

Lol, there is way too much hate on Dragon Age on these boards. Sure, you can think it is utter crap, but this is just Bioware taking their games in a different direction than what some of us here would like to see. If you don't like that direction it is time to let go and let its many, many fans enjoy it for what it has become. After DA2 it should have been clear they left the world of old PC RPGs behind them and are now putting their focus on the consoles. You can't blame DA:I for having more of that, it was pretty clear from the start it would turn out into something like this.

 

Personally I hate the all the console stuff and I wasn't impressed by the story of DA:I, but I can also still see that they are VERY good at some of the aspects that can make a cRPG a GREAT cRPG. Bioware know how to write their companion characters, I wouldn't be able to name any company that is better at writing dialogue. I still enjoy DA2 with its IMO horrible gameplay just for the party banter and the diverse caste of characters. DA2 also showed that Bioware still know to write an interesting story: finally no saving the world from Big Evil no. 1206, but a main character that is just trying to survive a messy world and gets sucked into larger events in a slow and believable manner. I also quite like the setting itself: lots of moral ambiguity and greyness, interesting conflicts and Bioware is mature (and brave) enough to deal with such real-life problems as racism and sexual identity.

 

So yup, I agree that DA has many flaws, but IMO the opinions on DA are a bit over the top on these forums.

[Rahelron]

It is a disgusting devolution of the rpg tradition of Bioware to appeal to-- what I am about to say will be insulting, but I don't mean it directly against anyone present personally-- people too stupid to see through their cheap gimmicks. It's a scam designed to prey on human fallibility. It's marketing at it's worst. It's a simply-the-facts study of what works in our most vile part of the industry ("free-to-play") and the application of those same mechanics designed to addict people and hide the non-games they use to exploit people. It's immoral. I can't help but liken the ruthless pragmatism in the incorporation of these tactics to testing nerve gas on live subjects. "This one work 3.06% faster. Be sure to use it as the base in the next trial."

 

 

I sincerely think that Bioware tried really hard to make DAI right. After the errors of DA2 they really tried to make this chapter something that was a finished product and didn't look line a Mass Effect ripoff set in medioeval times. In my opinion they didn't try to prey on human faillibility. They didn't try to trick people into buying their game with marketing magic. They genuinely tried to build a good game and, by what I was able to evaluate, they spent a lot of money in the attempt too. DAI is an expansive game to make, it is obvious. 

 

The problem is that they failed, and this makes me wonder if the team behind Dragon Age is able to bring us good roleplaying games. If you fail because you didn't put in the necessary effort is one thing, but if you fail even after giving your best well... that is a problem.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Rahelron

[Rahelron]

 

Lol, there is way too much hate on Dragon Age on these boards. Sure, you can think it is utter crap, but this is just Bioware taking their games in a different direction than what some of us here would like to see. If you don't like that direction it is time to let go and let its many, many fans enjoy it for what it has become. After DA2 it should have been clear they left the world of old PC RPGs behind them and are now putting their focus on the consoles. You can't blame DA:I for having more of that, it was pretty clear from the start it would turn out into something like this.

 

Personally I hate the all the console stuff and I wasn't impressed by the story of DA:I, but I can also still see that they are VERY good at some of the aspects that can make a cRPG a GREAT cRPG. Bioware know how to write their companion characters, I wouldn't be able to name any company that is better at writing dialogue. I still enjoy DA2 with its IMO horrible gameplay just for the party banter and the diverse caste of characters. DA2 also showed that Bioware still know to write an interesting story: finally no saving the world from Big Evil no. 1206, but a main character that is just trying to survive a messy world and gets sucked into larger events in a slow and believable manner. I also quite like the setting itself: lots of moral ambiguity and greyness, interesting conflicts and Bioware is mature (and brave) enough to deal with such real-life problems as racism and sexual identity.

 

So yup, I agree that DA has many flaws, but IMO the opinions on DA are a bit over the top on these forums.

 

I agree with you on the fact that Bioware is targeting console audiences right now and this means alienating some PC gamers. It is phisiologial and we can't complain about their business strategies. If they work than they are right.

 

I don't agree on the second part of your argument though. I think Bioware screwed up big time on the story side of things this time.

• The main story arc is a mess. It deals with four separate themes that should have been distributed in four games or at least developed in more than one quest each. I'm talking about the main villain story arc, the Orlais Civil War, the Wardens Corruption and the Templar vs Mages struggle. Of those four story arcs only two are really connected: the Wardens part and the Main villain part, and even that connection is a crappy one that makes little sense (the fake calling... what a crappy expedient... it makes look every warden a fool). The other two are separate sotires that existed before the brach in the sky and that will probably exist even after it gets closed. 
  ​
• The Templars vs Mages theme gets shoved by force into the main story, warping it and making it loose every meaning it had. Everyone gets corrupted or crazy and noone is right so you have to step in and save the situation. Cool... and what about all the themes we had to deal with in the previous game? Is it better to live in a free or in a secure world? Is it better to do everything it takes to gain your freedom or do you have to stay within the rules, even if it means you could never achieve your goal? Everything gets lost in DAI since Corypheus corrupts both Templars and Mages and both of them need to be stopped for reasons that have nothing to do with their struggle.
• Companion's story arcs are sub-par too... they are much less developed than those of DAO or even DA2 and this must tell something. The first mission that each companion assigns you in DAI is a simple fetch quest, with almost no meaning whatsoever and the next one (the one with cutscenes and an actual story) most of the times is really short and doesn't develop the struggle that the characters involved are dealing wirth.
• Corypheus' potential gets squandered. In DA 2 i thought it was one of the best villains that Bioware ever imagined. In DAI he looks like a fool. At the very beginning he manages to loose his all-powerful orb and having it stolen by a nobody. Then he attacks Haven but doesn't manage to do anything other than scaring you off and making you find a better place to stay. After that he tries to uncover another elven artifact but you arrive first and steal it from him once again and finally he seeks a final confrontation with no reason other than trying to get his revenge on you, but at that point he is already defeated and there is no reason for the hole in the sky to be still there since you already closed it three times during the playthourgh.

[Rhaeg]

 

I don't agree on the second part of your argument though. I think Bioware screwed up big time on the story side of things this time.

 

 

We actually do agree!  I am not happy with DA:Is story either and mostly for the exact same reasons you gave here My story praise was all aimed at DA2, which I found incredibly refreshing and had the best lineup of companions characters I have seen in a Bioware game.

[dragonwanderer]

DA:I pretended to be lore full but you soon realize it it's just surface deep and it had those horrible fetch quests. It was also pretty easy even on hardest difficulty which also tells something about the game.

 

So from PoE I expect challenging game-play and deep story with meaningful quests and also complex companions. That's sums most of my expectations.

[LHWong]

I was a massive fan of DAO. I replayed it several times - much like BG1, BG2, PST. DA2 was a massive disappointment - with the recycled maps being the biggest joke of RPG history.

[Valmy]

I really enjoyed DAO and especially loved the Origin story mechanic. I wanted them to do this again only more so, have it impact more of the story. Instead they dropped it entirely and had your race and class mean less. I just did not get that.

 

Anyway DAO was the last time I felt Bioware was designing games for my demographic. I am not upset with them about this, but it was sad to see one of my favorite RPG companies drop out.

[Voss]

I was a massive fan of DAO. I replayed it several times - much like BG1, BG2, PST. DA2 was a massive disappointment - with the recycled maps being the biggest joke of RPG history.

honestly, I don't get the map thing. Could it have been more diverse? Yeah. But compared to the story elements (which blow 1 and 3 away), I rslly don't care.

 

Rahelron- as far as story goes, I think the Mage vs Templar should have been the center. It's the only coherent, continuous plot line for the setting, and inquisition just... Drops it. You pick one side to rescue (which is absurd In itself), and then... Well that is pretty much it. Some background issues float about in the text and you can kill a few stray mobs if you like, but mostly you need some bodies to seal the hole, either side works and...whatever. It should really have more focus (and be central to the game). Corphyfish, the wardens and even orlaiis were the real waste of time

 

Of course part of the problem is they can't write themselves out of the corner they stuck themselves in. Based on everything that happens over the course of the three games, it is painfully apparent that mages really do need to be controlled or exterminated, the only real counter argument that the game even attempts to make is that freedom is worth the destruction and subjugation of all life, which is flatly absurd.

[Valmy]

 

Based on everything that happens over the course of the three games, it is painfully apparent that mages really do need to be controlled or exterminated, the only real counter argument that the game even attempts to make is that freedom is worth the destruction and subjugation of all life, which is flatly absurd.

 

 

This was apparent after the mage origin. The mages are nuclear bombs likely to go off at any moment. 

[Faerunner]

I rather agree with the. I'm hoping this game has more meaningful story, interaction, and characterization, and less filler (like obscenely massive open world, mostly just collection quests, etc.) I don't mind if the story os long or has lots of quests, just as long as they are substantive, tie into the narrative, allow for roleplay freedom (like how you choose to respond to the quest can allow you to explore/express your character's personality, values, etc), explore larger themes and motifs present in the game, etc. Not a bunch of fetch quests where the NPC just tells you what they need (10 ram flanks, five camp locations, husband's ring, etc), you go grab it, then bring it back to them and cash in on XP like they're people-shaped slot machines. =(

 

EDIT: I don't hate BioWare or Dragon Age (in fact, I like the series), but I am a little disappointed in the direction they're going. DAO was praised for having such an engaging story, themes, roleplay freedom, illusion of choice, actions having far-reaching consequences, characters being well-written, complex, having satisfying character arcs, etc. So what do they do for the sequels? Why, naturally, simplify the stories, restrict roleplay freedom, railroad "choices", restrict character exploration and interaction, etc.

 

I'm especially disappointed with DAI because I felt that it could have been great with more emphasis on story and characterization, but instead they chose to focus on massive open worlds and pointless fetch quests. It has over 150 hours of gameplay, true, but I think it would be generous to say 25 of those hours go toward the central story and companion interactions.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Faerunner