Area looting confirmed

[Tartantyco]

How would you like a function where you right-click on an item in your inventory and it is converted into cp and added to your party cp?

 

You thinking that's even remotely comparable just underscored how nonsensical your reasoning is. To repeat myself, nobody's talking about eliminating back-and-forths, I'm talking about not keeping a system that only adds back-and-forths and inventory juggling.

[Gairnulf]

Now, you're just changing the subject.

No, why? While we are on the subject of tedium and what's adding to it, let's consider the tedium of having to walk to the merchant to sell loot.

 

Why bother? I already have infinite inventory, I already have "All to stash" button, I already have loot area to make looting faster, and I already have merchants with infinite money who accept all item types unconditionally.

 

So what's with this tedium of having merchants at all? Why not just click on an item and transform it into cp?

 

That's your logic after all.

 

@CaptainMace, I haven't tested it in the current version actually, but from what I have tried in previous versions, it was possible to send loot to your inventory (and separately from there to the stash) or to the stash (directly). I'll check how ot works now.

 

I admit that if in outdoors you can move loot only to the inventory this would limit the vacuum cleaner tactic significantly.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Gairnulf

[Lephys]

If all else fails, they could tab the corpses per body. That would at least allow you to know which unit had which item.

I think this is how Wasteland 2 did it. You area looted anything within like... 10 or 15 meters of your party (there was a bit circle indicator around you when you went to loot something), so that, basically, you didn't have to jog around to each thing you wanted to loot (it was just understood that you were rummaging through the area). BUT, you still individually looted each corpse/container. You could simply access all of them from one spot.

 

That might be a better way to do it, if they want to do area loot.

 

And, while I agree with Nonek that we're losing a lot of the little details, I've got to say that the act of walking from too-far-away-to-loot-a-corpse to within-looting-range-of-that-corpse, manually, isn't really something I'm that worried about. The game already puts other stuff behind-the-scenes (like the party pooping, or traveling between areas), so I don't mind something like that being represented in such a manner.

 

When you get to a certain point, you start breaking weird boundaries. Like, "Oh, there were two corpses right there, and I thought I looted both of them, but I couldn't click on one of them" when your character would easily know which one he'd looted and which he hadn't, but you're controlling his brain without his eyes. Or, if there was limited ammo in the game for bows, and you could retrieve unbroken arrows. I'd much rather it be some kind of Search roll than my manually jogging around, pixel-hunting for the arrows. My manual control of someone with amazing vision becomes nonsensical when they'd just consider that one act -- retrieve all the arrows I can find in this 10-foot area.

 

*shrug*. There are certain "details" that don't really need to be in the player's hands.

[SunBroSolaire]

I... don't know that New Vegas is really a great example of a solid, realistic, and/or unbreakable economy. I love the game to death, but it's pretty trivial to get enough caps to fill the Lucky 38.

 

So give an example of an RPG that did it better. I'll wait.

 

 

The only thing the PoE loot system does is remove the need for back-and-forths and inventory juggling.

 

Um:

 

You know nobody's forcing you to pick everything up, right?

[Tamerlane]

 

I... don't know that New Vegas is really a great example of a solid, realistic, and/or unbreakable economy. I love the game to death, but it's pretty trivial to get enough caps to fill the Lucky 38.

 

So give an example of an RPG that did it better. I'll wait.

Uh... wait, what? Why? Like, if someone said, "This bag of skittles is really nutritious," it does not fall on me to find a nutritious candy when I disagree with them.

 

Also, Uncharted Waters. JRPG, I know, but whatever. And of course, it put real emphasis on its economic system, given that it was a game about piracy, exploration, and trade. New Vegas had subplots about trade and what-not, but it was not a major mechanical focus.

[Gairnulf]

 

How would you like a function where you right-click on an item in your inventory and it is converted into cp and added to your party cp?

 

 

You thinking that's even remotely comparable just underscored how nonsensical your reasoning is. To repeat myself, nobody's talking about eliminating back-and-forths, I'm talking about not keeping a system that only adds back-and-forths and inventory juggling.

Haha, getting defensive already? How did you know that's what I meant? :D

 

I don't know what's the difference between "eliminating" and "not keeping", and I think it's you that are not making any sense.

 

I also think you are arguing just for the sake of argument by now.

[Tartantyco]

You don't understand the difference between eliminating any instance of back-and-forth in the game and not keeping an inventory system that adds one instance of back-and-forth?

[GreyFox]

If you're going to throw the word "logic" around, you should at least try to make sense. Nobody's talking about eliminating back-and-forths, I'm talking about not keeping a system that only adds back-and-forths and inventory juggling. 

 

LOL I know you're just trolling and you never make sense...especially since you post that "no one forces you to pick up or loot items" then carry on about PoE eliminating back and forths and inventory juggling because it added tedium lulz. Take your own advice no one forces you to play inventory tetris or return to town.

 

Weighted inventory system works just fine and is a successful model to follow...certainly didn't hurt D:OS sales.

One thing the old games could have done better(and is a much more valid argument) is the number of  inventory slots and item stack count.

I think weighted inventory with unlimited space works the best.

[dorkboy]

[...]

*shrug*. There are certain "details" that don't really need to be in the player's hands.

Which details would that be; nose sellion ratio and eyebrow curve? Rather depends on who you ask and what the overall game system looks like, wouldn't you say? 

At any rate, if you remove all the detail control/responsibility/freedom from the player's hands it becomes a rather passive and not very engaging experience, IMO. Area looting is of course a very minor delegation, all things considered, but it delegates nonetheless. At what point does it become too much?

Let's say that in your limited arrows example, instead of having to manually pixel hunt for them, the character's stats determine how many arrows they find. The player still has some active control over that aspect via the character speccing, even though the process is somewhat abstracted. (I think WL2 uses the Perception skill to modify the "loot range", but I'm not entirely sure..)

[Tartantyco]

 

If you're going to throw the word "logic" around, you should at least try to make sense. Nobody's talking about eliminating back-and-forths, I'm talking about not keeping a system that only adds back-and-forths and inventory juggling. 

 

LOL I know you're just trolling and you never make sense...especially since you post that "no one forces you to pick up or loot items" then carry on about PoE eliminating back and forths and inventory juggling because it added tedium lulz. Take your own advice no one forces you to play inventory tetris or return to town.

 

Weighted inventory system works just fine and is a successful model to follow...certainly didn't hurt D:OS sales.

One thing the old games could have done better(and is a much more valid argument) is the number of  inventory slots and item stack count.

I think weighted inventory with unlimited space works the best.

 

Those two statements of mine aren't even related.  And I'm pretty sure D:OS doesn't owe its sales to its weighted inventory system. This is your idea of an argument? Quoting me out of context and calling me a troll?

[Gairnulf]

Here's what I expect area looting to turn into and that's why I'm skeptical towards it.

 

You have four loot containers and you have to guess and try to click such a loot container as to select all or most of them, but you don't know in advance if this is possible.

 

The end result being that you still click on every container, only you are not really sure if what you're seeing isn't something you just saw when you were clicking at the last container, because the loot interface won't just show you the container you clicked but also the other container:

 

 

So in a situation with four loot containers you are blind guessing which one you should click first and which other containers will its 3m radius include.

 

That's what I call confusing and that's the main reason I don't like the idea. It's got nothing to do with nostalgia and much to do with common sense.

 

In this example you would need at least two clicks to check all containers, and that is if you were able to tell which containers you are seeing with each click. In reality most people would click all containers anyway, just to be sure they aren't missing anything.

One easy remedy I can think of for at least this problem (not touching on the other problems I have with this mechanic) is to highlight all containers in the highlighted container's radius. This would at least give the player a hint about which containers' contents will be visualized.

 

If remembering which container you have left to check instead of remembering which ones you have already checked is easier for you, then I guess that's ok. For me it's easier to just remember what I've just clicked.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Gairnulf

[Zack Fair]

 

Here's what I expect area looting to turn into and that's why I'm skeptical towards it.

 

You have four loot containers and you have to guess and try to click such a loot container as to select all or most of them, but you don't know in advance if this is possible.

 

The end result being that you still click on every container, only you are not really sure if what you're seeing isn't something you just saw when you were clicking at the last container, because the loot interface won't just show you the container you clicked but also the other container:

 

 

So in a situation with four loot containers you are blind guessing which one you should click first and which other containers will its 3m radius include.

 

That's what I call confusing and that's the main reason I don't like the idea. It's got nothing to do with nostalgia and much to do with common sense.

 

In this example you would need at least two clicks to check all containers, and that is if you were able to tell which containers you are seeing with each click. In reality most people would click all containers anyway, just to be sure they aren't missing anything.

One easy remedy I can think of for at least this problem (not touching on the other problems I have with this mechanic) is to highlight all containers in the highlighted container's radius. This would at least give the player a hint about which containers' contents will be visualized.

 

If remembering which container you have left to check instead of remembering which ones you have already checked is easier for you, then I guess that's ok. For me it's easier to just remember what I've just clicked.

 

Or, maybe looted corpses will stop shining, so you will know which corpses you looted already. We don't know how does this work ingame.

 

Oh another thing. You can probably still go to each corpse and click on them one by one, if you want individual loots. You just don't pick up everything.

[Luckmann]

 

 

If you're going to throw the word "logic" around, you should at least try to make sense. Nobody's talking about eliminating back-and-forths, I'm talking about not keeping a system that only adds back-and-forths and inventory juggling. 

 

LOL I know you're just trolling and you never make sense...especially since you post that "no one forces you to pick up or loot items" then carry on about PoE eliminating back and forths and inventory juggling because it added tedium lulz. Take your own advice no one forces you to play inventory tetris or return to town.

 

Weighted inventory system works just fine and is a successful model to follow...certainly didn't hurt D:OS sales.

One thing the old games could have done better(and is a much more valid argument) is the number of  inventory slots and item stack count.

I think weighted inventory with unlimited space works the best.

 

Those two statements of mine aren't even related.  And I'm pretty sure D:OS doesn't owe its sales to its weighted inventory system. This is your idea of an argument? Quoting me out of context and calling me a troll?

 

 

Let's not pretend it's not part of it, though. Games are essentially gestalts.

 

 

 

Now, you're just changing the subject.

No, why? While we are on the subject of tedium and what's adding to it, let's consider the tedium of having to walk to the merchant to sell loot.

 

Why bother? I already have infinite inventory, I already have "All to stash" button, I already have loot area to make looting faster, and I already have merchants with infinite money who accept all item types unconditionally.

 

So what's with this tedium of having merchants at all? Why not just click on an item and transform it into cp?

 

That's your logic after all.

 

@CaptainMace, I haven't tested it in the current version actually, but from what I have tried in previous versions, it was possible to send loot to your inventory (and separately from there to the stash) or to the stash (directly). I'll check how ot works now.

 

I admit that if in outdoors you can move loot only to the inventory this would limit the vacuum cleaner tactic significantly.

 

 

This.

 

People that cannot follow this very simple chain of logic but still bring up these arguments are suffering from some really die-hard cognitive dissonance.

[Voss]

 

Or, maybe looted corpses will stop shining, so you will know which corpses you looted already. We don't know how does this work ingame.

Barring histrionics over the unassailable purity of IE games, it seems pretty obvious that this will be the case. 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, Luckmann, but  'minor quality of life improves inevitably leads to the end of 'true'  gaming forever' is not a chain of logic.  It is a chain of reactionary hysteria.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2015 by Voss

[Gairnulf]

One thing the old games could have done better(and is a much more valid argument) is the number of  inventory slots and item stack count.

I think weighted inventory with unlimited space works the best.

Underrail does it perfectly here BTW (I just hope people accusing me of nostalgia don't bring up the 'It's not an IE game' argument now) - you have an unlimited number of slots but a limited weight carry capacity before encumbrance penalties are applied. Simple as that. Oh, and items have weight values. With two decimal places after the whole number. So an ampule weighs 0.01 This what I call cool. Limitless inventory and area loot isn't.

 

Or, maybe looted corpses will stop shining, so you will know which corpses you looted already. We don't know how does this work ingame.

Why should it shine in the first place? Shiny loot... don't get me started. I just hope it gets modded out and I'll let everyone else enjoy progressive non-tedious mechanics.

 

Oh another thing. You can probably still go to each corpse and click on them one by one, if you want individual loots. You just don't pick up everything.

Yes, but loot items from various containers still overlap. If anything this actually encourages looting everything.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Gairnulf

[Azmodiuz]

I also wish the the things we kill stayed there on the ground with all the blood and gore, even after looting. Makes things more fun and interesting. Could potentially even make things expire over days months or years.. like corpses get rotten and bugs get attracted etc, or things decompose...  might even add loot after some time, like bones and rotten flesh for some crazy necromancer.. 

 

 

anyways...

[Kal Adan]

 Why should it shine in the first place? Shiny loot... don't get me started. I just hope it gets modded out and I'll let everyone else enjoy progressive non-tedious mechanics.

It does shine, so there is no problem in knowing what has been looted and what not. Your logic is weird - first you complain about not knowing what you looted (so you'd have to check everything just in case) and when there is something that helps you to keep track of what has been looted you complain about that mechanic to go back to the square one: complaining about not knowing what you looted.

[dorkboy]

 

 Why should it shine in the first place? Shiny loot... don't get me started. I just hope it gets modded out and I'll let everyone else enjoy progressive non-tedious mechanics.

It does shine, so there is no problem in knowing what has been looted and what not. Your logic is weird - first you complain about not knowing what you looted (so you'd have to check everything just in case) and when there is something that helps you to keep track of what has been looted you complain about that mechanic to go back to the square one: complaining about not knowing what you looted.

 

I find it easier to manually track which corpses I've looted if I actually have to click on each one. Area looting somewhat obfuscates that process, making it less easy to do manually.

Yes, with shiny markers I can probably do that in my sleep, so what's the problem?

I don't want to play games that put me to sleep.

At least with optional loot glow/optional highlight/mouse cursor changing on hover, I can play in a way that I find engaging - without necessarily impacting the preferred playstyle of others. However, if they're adding this area loot feature for the sake of convenience, then it seems unlikely they'll also add functionality which potentially makes the same feature less convenient than before. I mean, there's gotta be a cost/benefit analysis in there somewhere, right?

[Tartantyco]

Yes, with shiny markers I can probably do that in my sleep, so what's the problem?

I don't want to play games that put me to sleep.

 

I forgot that this game is Looting Simulator 2015, and its gameplay consists solely of looting bodies. Do you people have any idea how crazy you sound?

[dorkboy]

 

Yes, with shiny markers I can probably do that in my sleep, so what's the problem?

I don't want to play games that put me to sleep.

 

I forgot that this game is Looting Simulator 2015, and its gameplay consists solely of looting bodies. Do you people have any idea how crazy you sound?

 

I agree. Nor is it a Chuck Yeager style combat flight simulator.

However, I don't think it's insane to discuss specific looting mechanics and the implications thereof in a thread clearly devoted to.. well.. specific looting mechanics.

Edited March 15, 2015 by dorkboy

[Tartantyco]

It's not the topic you're discussing, it's the arguments you're making. As quoted.

[dorkboy]

It's not the topic you're discussing, it's the arguments you're making. As quoted.

That's odd, because when you quoted me there you seemed to imply that I was thinking of looting as what the entire gameplay should consist of, rather than just being one aspect of it. 

[Tartantyco]

No, I was implying that for your argument to make sense, the game would have to consist solely of looting. Acting like area looting is going to make or break the game experience for you...

[Gairnulf]

 

 

Why should it shine in the first place? Shiny loot... don't get me started. I just hope it gets modded out and I'll let everyone else enjoy progressive non-tedious mechanics.

It does shine, so there is no problem in knowing what has been looted and what not. Your logic is weird - first you complain about not knowing what you looted (so you'd have to check everything just in case) and when there is something that helps you to keep track of what has been looted you complain about that mechanic to go back to the square one: complaining about not knowing what you looted.

 

I find it easier to manually track which corpses I've looted if I actually have to click on each one. Area looting somewhat obfuscates that process, making it less easy to do manually.

Yes, with shiny markers I can probably do that in my sleep, so what's the problem?

I don't want to play games that put me to sleep.

At least with optional loot glow/optional highlight/mouse cursor changing on hover, I can play in a way that I find engaging - without necessarily impacting the preferred playstyle of others. However, if they're adding this area loot feature for the sake of convenience, then it seems unlikely they'll also add functionality which potentially makes the same feature less convenient than before. I mean, there's gotta be a cost/benefit analysis in there somewhere, right?

 

I agree with you but apparently we have different expectations from the game than other people have...

 

Trolls I'm just going to ignore though.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Gairnulf

[dorkboy]

No, I was implying that for your argument to make sense, the game would have to consist solely of looting. [...]

Which argument would that be? The part you quoted out of context simply to have something to argue against?

Or do you just dislike it when people provide general reasons for specific preferences?

[...] Acting like area looting is going to make or break the game experience for you...

Let's put it this way - the petition wasn't my idea.