White People: What They Say in Public vs Behind Closed Doors

[Gromnir]

 

 

I don't think I've ever said N-word in a discussion either.  I usually just say a derogatory word or a slur when discussing language with students.  

 

 

one wonders if you would be able to do so if were teaching in oakland... or if you were speaking at a pta meeting.

 

HA! Good Fun! 

 

 

I get a surprising amount of Asian slurs in my area, although in 7th grade it is still pretty innocent.

 

For many years the students referred to the three different levels of math at our school as white math (low) Chinese math (regular) and Indian math (advanced).  It was hard not to chuckle a bit at the fact that the white kids were our low performers.

 

statistically, is our understanding that the single highest performing demographic for math and science in US public schools is african immigrants.

 

*shrug*

 

am not able to think o' a situation in which we would want or need to use a racial slur, but am always struck by how careful public figures must be.  clearly in a round-table discussion on pbs there should be no need to self-censor and say "the n-word" when describing events in ferguson or nyc, and yet...

 

use racial slurs is bad.  am not sure why anybody would complain that they don't get to free use racial slurs.  even so, the way public figures (and many other folks) needs fall over themselves avoiding particular words is... silly.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 11, 2015 by Gromnir

[Hurlshort]

 

 

 

I don't think I've ever said N-word in a discussion either.  I usually just say a derogatory word or a slur when discussing language with students.  

 

 

one wonders if you would be able to do so if were teaching in oakland... or if you were speaking at a pta meeting.

 

HA! Good Fun! 

 

 

I get a surprising amount of Asian slurs in my area, although in 7th grade it is still pretty innocent.

 

For many years the students referred to the three different levels of math at our school as white math (low) Chinese math (regular) and Indian math (advanced).  It was hard not to chuckle a bit at the fact that the white kids were our low performers.

 

 

Please explain the comedic element of that.

 

 

Every year under the former testing program, we would receive progress report broken down by demographics.  Basically the report would indicate that we need to target the white students because they are underperforming, which is the opposite of what is usually pushed across the state.  I find some humor in the contrast, I suppose.  I'll try to be more chagrined.  

[Volourn]

"For many years the students referred to the three different levels of math at our school as white math (low) Chinese math (regular) and Indian math (advanced).  It was hard not to chuckle a bit at the fact that the white kids were our low performers."

 

L0L  It's okay to make racist jokes about whites. R00fles!

[Tale]

 

I don't think I've ever said N-word in a discussion either.  I usually just say a derogatory word or a slur when discussing language with students.  

 

I have no idea what CIS or the K-word is, and I'm afraid to search it up while at work.  

 

'CIS' is short for 'cisgender', an insanity driven label revolving around the world of the 'transgendered'. It's new on the landscape of words, and was created by 'sociologists' and the like.

 

The etymology is fascinating to me. Trans was accepted and people pulled a term from isomerism in chemistry to complement it

[BruceVC]

"For many years the students referred to the three different levels of math at our school as white math (low) Chinese math (regular) and Indian math (advanced).  It was hard not to chuckle a bit at the fact that the white kids were our low performers."

 

L0L  It's okay to make racist jokes about whites. R00fles!

 

Volo we have made this discussion before, white people typically haven't been the victims of historical or systemic abuse in society. I mean look at the history of  developments like Colonialism

 

We aren't the victims of racism. There is no reason we should get defensive with a little humor, you must learn to laugh at yourself. I know there is a certain perspective on these forums that white people  in the modern age are beset as a race by some nebulous and insidious forces but I don't buy it and I reject the notion that the white race as a whole is under some kind of attack?  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

"For many years the students referred to the three different levels of math at our school as white math (low) Chinese math (regular) and Indian math (advanced).  It was hard not to chuckle a bit at the fact that the white kids were our low performers."

 

L0L  It's okay to make racist jokes about whites. R00fles!

 

Volo we have made this discussion before, white people typically haven't been the victims of historical or systemic abuse in society.

 

The Irish would like a word.

[Cantousent]

The problem I have with that, Bruce, is that it tends to encourage 'victimization.'  It becomes a race to claim victimhood in order to have the right to attack someone else.  I mean, I think the example of 'white math' is pretty lame as an example of racism, but the idea that 'white privilege' means that people of other colors can't be 'racist' against whites is self defeating in the long run.  Making it politically correct to hate white people because of past generational transgressions isn't the way to peace.

[Volourn]

"Volo we have made this discussion before, white people typically haven't been the victims of historical or systemic abuse in society. I mean look at the history of  developments like Colonialism

 

We aren't the victims of racism. There is no reason we should get defensive with a little humor, you must learn to laugh at yourself. I know there is a certain perspective on these forums that white people  in the modern age are beset as a race by some nebulous and insidious forces but I don't buy it and I reject the notion that the white race as a whole is under some kind of attack?"

 

 

L0L

[BruceVC]

The problem I have with that, Bruce, is that it tends to encourage 'victimization.'  It becomes a race to claim victimhood in order to have the right to attack someone else.  I mean, I think the example of 'white math' is pretty lame as an example of racism, but the idea that 'white privilege' means that people of other colors can't be 'racist' against whites is self defeating in the long run.  Making it politically correct to hate white people because of past generational transgressions isn't the way to peace.

 

Oh don't misunderstand me, any ethnic  group can be racist. Racism is just a prejudice against someone because of a different color skin,its inherent in all of us . And yes the Irish were discriminated against. I can tell you shocking stories about the new South Africa where generalizations about white people would definitely be seen as racist...yet people think its okay

 

I am talking about this view that there is a surreptitious movement that exists in the world to undermine and marginalize white people, that I don't believe 

Edited March 12, 2015 by BruceVC

[Darkpriest]

Try talking to Chinese people bro.

[Valsuelm]

 

"For many years the students referred to the three different levels of math at our school as white math (low) Chinese math (regular) and Indian math (advanced).  It was hard not to chuckle a bit at the fact that the white kids were our low performers."

 

L0L  It's okay to make racist jokes about whites. R00fles!

 

Volo we have made this discussion before, white people typically haven't been the victims of historical or systemic abuse in society. I mean look at the history of  developments like Colonialism

 

We aren't the victims of racism. There is no reason we should get defensive with a little humor, you must learn to laugh at yourself. I know there is a certain perspective on these forums that white people  in the modern age are beset as a race by some nebulous and insidious forces but I don't buy it and I reject the notion that the white race as a whole is under some kind of attack?  

 

 

I'm genealogically a WASP. From the all evil racist oppressive people in your book. I've seen and experienced racism directed at myself and plenty of other white people. In fact, while it's certainly possible I'm missing some obscure law, in the US the only racism I know of that's codified into law is against white people (and a few other ethnic groups as well that aren't deemed 'oppressed' by people such as yourself), with things such as 'Affirmative action' and the like. Sexism with 'Title 9' and the like.

 

To be frank. I have a resounding )#@* you to all those folks out there who think anyone is entitled to anything based on the color of their skin, and some transgression (real or perceived (and a lot of them are just perceived) that other folks with that same skin color were subjected to generations ago. This racist attitude, coupled with the media's never ending dialogue on race (and sex) as an issue, parroted by people such as yourself, more than anything else out there serves to continue to divide people along sex or skin color. Racism isn't 'inherent in all of us' as you say. Speak for yourself. It's taught and reinforced again and again through the media people are exposed to in modern times.

 

Anyone of any sex or skin color can be the victim of sexism or racism. To say that it's the purview of ethnic group X, Y, and Z only to experience racism is an incredibly ignorant thing to say.

 

As for the you don't 'buy the notion'. Well, that's because you support the attack. You support 'multiculturalism' and think it's a good thing. You don't see or care that others don't agree with you, and see 'multiculturalism' as a bad thing for a variety of reasons. This is a complex subject, and the motivations of those involved in it vary, as do the good and bad consequences, but it's certainly the opinion of some that they are under attack, and they don't think that just for the hell of it.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Gromnir]

The problem I have with that, Bruce, is that it tends to encourage 'victimization.'  It becomes a race to claim victimhood in order to have the right to attack someone else.  I mean, I think the example of 'white math' is pretty lame as an example of racism, but the idea that 'white privilege' means that people of other colors can't be 'racist' against whites is self defeating in the long run.  Making it politically correct to hate white people because of past generational transgressions isn't the way to peace.

dunno. we think it is ok to hate white folks for past generational transgressions.  white folks seemed to dislike and pity us for no other reason than real or imagined past generational conflicts. is not just the oglala that taught us to hate white folks when we were a kid. the white folks that we saw insulting our grandmother when she shopped in town taught us to hate.  the white kids at the public elementary school we briefly attended taught us to hate as well.  am not proud o' it, but particularly as a little kid, we disliked white folks enough to say we hated 'em.  

 

hate is a very powerful motivator if it can be channeled positive.  Gromnir might not be where we is today if we didn't have hate o' white folk when we were young.  every time somebody tried to tell us that we needed help o' affirmative action or implied that we had an excuse for poor test scores because our "disadvantaged upbringing," we wanted to hit'em.  not joking. we don't hate white folks individually, but am gonna admit we still got lingering animosity for whites that we need push down as unfair and irrational. we saw and experienced too much as a kid.

 

but here is the thing, what about the angry folks, much like Gromnir, who had a couple more bad breaks and a few less advantages? our advantages were few, but they were pivotal.  we grew up without adequate heat, adequate food and adequate health care, but we had many books and a grandfather who had a degree from an ivy league school (dartmouth still counts as ivy, yes?)  who aggressively encouraged us to get educated, though not necessarily school education.  we also were lucky enough to be be a natural athlete and earn scholarships at multiple quality schools.  our parents ended up making money, but at the time we went away to University, we woulda' had difficulty paying for Cal or our other top choices such as Penn.  we had earned academic scholarships, but at the schools we wanted to attend, there would be a shortfall.  

 

so what happens to angry Gromnir who had a career ending injury during our sophomore year in high school?  one bad break, literal.  is not the first time we has considered  how our life mighta' changed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Deadly_Nightshade]

 

 

"For many years the students referred to the three different levels of math at our school as white math (low) Chinese math (regular) and Indian math (advanced).  It was hard not to chuckle a bit at the fact that the white kids were our low performers."

 

L0L  It's okay to make racist jokes about whites. R00fles!

 

Volo we have made this discussion before, white people typically haven't been the victims of historical or systemic abuse in society.

 

The Irish would like a word.

 

 

Technically, at least in the context of the United States, they weren’t always considered 'white' (historically speaking). But then it’s not like race is a social construct or anything like that… Oh wait… It is… R00fles!

[BruceVC]

 

 

"For many years the students referred to the three different levels of math at our school as white math (low) Chinese math (regular) and Indian math (advanced).  It was hard not to chuckle a bit at the fact that the white kids were our low performers."

 

L0L  It's okay to make racist jokes about whites. R00fles!

 

Volo we have made this discussion before, white people typically haven't been the victims of historical or systemic abuse in society. I mean look at the history of  developments like Colonialism

 

We aren't the victims of racism. There is no reason we should get defensive with a little humor, you must learn to laugh at yourself. I know there is a certain perspective on these forums that white people  in the modern age are beset as a race by some nebulous and insidious forces but I don't buy it and I reject the notion that the white race as a whole is under some kind of attack?  

 

 

I'm genealogically a WASP. From the all evil racist oppressive people in your book. I've seen and experienced racism directed at myself and plenty of other white people. In fact, while it's certainly possible I'm missing some obscure law, in the US the only racism I know of that's codified into law is against white people (and a few other ethnic groups as well that aren't deemed 'oppressed' by people such as yourself), with things such as 'Affirmative action' and the like. Sexism with 'Title 9' and the like.

 

To be frank. I have a resounding )#@* you to all those folks out there who think anyone is entitled to anything based on the color of their skin, and some transgression (real or perceived (and a lot of them are just perceived) that other folks with that same skin color were subjected to generations ago. This attitude, coupled with the media's never ending dialogue on race (and sex) as an issue, parroted by people such as yourself, more than anything else out there serves to continue to divide people along sex or skin color. Racism isn't 'inherent in all of us' as you say. Speak for yourself. It's taught and reinforced again and again through the media people are exposed to in modern times.

 

Anyone of any sex or skin color can be the victim of racism or sexism. To say that it's the purview of ethnic group X, Y, and Z only to experience racism is an incredibly ignorant thing to say.

 

As for the you don't 'buy the notion'. Well, that's because you support the attack. You support 'multiculturalism' and think it's a good thing. You don't see or care that others don't agree with you, and see 'multiculturalism' as a bad thing for a variety of reasons. This is a complex subject, and the motivations of those involved in it vary, as do the good and bad consequences, but it's certainly the opinion of some that they are under attack, and they don't think that just for the hell of it.

 

 

I appreciate your honesty on this topic, I enjoy these types of debates because it allows us to unpack perceived challenger's that exist in society

 

 

And you right I do support multiculturalism. As I mentioned anyone can be racist, its just a prejudice and is definitely not the domain of white people. I suppose you could say affirmative action is a form of discrimination but it has  only been implemented to address systemic imbalances that  exist in the past in the workplace

 

For example are women really equal to men in the corporate world? 30 years ago many people thought that a women's role was in the kitchen getting the dinner ready, the TV series Mad Men highlights just how bad and institutionalized sexism was

 

So what other examples apart from affirmative action can you give me of proof that white people are discriminated against ? I am interested in how you see this ?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

 

 

I don't think I've ever said N-word in a discussion either.  I usually just say a derogatory word or a slur when discussing language with students.  

 

I have no idea what CIS or the K-word is, and I'm afraid to search it up while at work.  

 

'CIS' is short for 'cisgender', an insanity driven label revolving around the world of the 'transgendered'. It's new on the landscape of words, and was created by 'sociologists' and the like.

 

The etymology is fascinating to me. Trans was accepted and people pulled a term from isomerism in chemistry to complement it

 

 

I imagine the intention was to pull something directly from Latin that would be the opposite of 'trans':

 

Cis:

 

PREP  ACC   [XXXCO] 

 

on/to this/near side of, short of; before,

 

Trans:

PREP  ACC   [XXXCX]  

across, over; beyond; on the other side

Edited March 12, 2015 by Deadly_Nightshade

[BruceVC]

 

The problem I have with that, Bruce, is that it tends to encourage 'victimization.'  It becomes a race to claim victimhood in order to have the right to attack someone else.  I mean, I think the example of 'white math' is pretty lame as an example of racism, but the idea that 'white privilege' means that people of other colors can't be 'racist' against whites is self defeating in the long run.  Making it politically correct to hate white people because of past generational transgressions isn't the way to peace.

dunno. we think it is ok to hate white folks for past generational transgressions.  white folks seemed to dislike and pity us for no other reason than real or imagined past generational conflicts. is not just the oglala that taught us to hate white folks when we were a kid. the white folks that we saw insulting our grandmother when she shopped in town taught us to hate.  the white kids at the public elementary school we briefly attended taught us to hate as well.  am not proud o' it, but particularly as a little kid, we disliked white folks enough to say we hated 'em.  

 

hate is a very powerful motivator if it can be channeled positive.  Gromnir might not be where we is today if we didn't have hate o' white folk when we were young.  every time somebody tried to tell us that we needed help o' affirmative action or implied that we had an excuse for poor test scores because our "disadvantaged upbringing," we wanted to hit'em.  not joking. we don't hate white folks individually, but am gonna admit we still got lingering animosity for whites that we need push down as unfair and irrational. we saw and experienced too much as a kid.

 

but here is the thing, what about the angry folks, much like Gromnir, who had a couple more bad breaks and a few less advantages? our advantages were few, but they were pivotal.  we grew up without adequate heat, adequate food and adequate health care, but we had many books and a grandfather who had a degree from an ivy league school (dartmouth still counts as ivy, yes?)  who aggressively encouraged us to get educated, though not necessarily school education.  we also were lucky enough to be be a natural athlete and earn scholarships at multiple quality schools.  our parents ended up making money, but at the time we went away to University, we woulda' had difficulty paying for Cal or our other top choices such as Penn.  we had earned academic scholarships, but at the schools we wanted to attend, there would be a shortfall.  

 

so what happens to angry Gromnir who had a career ending injury during our sophomore year in high school?  one bad break, literal.  is not the first time we has considered  how our life mighta' changed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I can completely understand this post and I appreciate your view on this topic . I would also have a dislike of white people if I grew up and in my early and informative years all I was exposed to was bigotry, especially when you consider examples like how you saw your gran been treated

 

This animosity towards white people  was shaped by valid experiences but now as you mentioned you know that not all white people are bigots.

 

And yes it could have gone another way and you could still to  this day think all white people are racist ..imagine if you didn't receive the education you did or had exposure to various cultures..what would your perspective be on white people? Probably not very favorable 

[Cantousent]

I'm going to mention something that I hardly divulge, but I have literally lived below the poverty line.  ...And I lived in it before the 'poverty line' meant only having one tv in the house.  I have known hunger in a real sense.  No, not the 'I have to eat vanilla rather than chocolate ice cream hunger,' but the 'I have had nothing to eat today and I'm trying to sleep.'  I don't want to scramble for the bottom because I've always hated the idea that I would fight with folks over who had it tougher.  There are folks who've had it far far worse and some that have had it considerably better.  The thing is, we can't these things become an excuse to...

 

You know what? I think I'd better wait until tomorrow to embark on this particular sailing before I continue.  I've been indulging a little, as is sometimes my wont, and am perhaps somewhat diminished.

[Volourn]

"For example are women really equal to men in the corporate world?"

 

Define equal.

 

Are men equal in the parenting world?

 

Are men equal in the 'right to live' world?

 

You need to take off the glasses of ignorances. There is plenty of inbred bigotry, racism, and sexism against whites and males.

 

TONS of examples. TONS.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Are men equal in the 'right to live' world?

 

Honestly I'm not sure they should be in that case, while it would be nice for 'Schrodinger's Father' to have some input ultimately it's not his body and thus not his choice (bodily autonomy/integrity and all of that). But that's a discussion that has been done plenty of times already and is a bit off topic.

[Gorth]

I am talking about this view that there is a surreptitious movement that exists in the world to undermine and marginalize white people, that I don't believe

If you look a bit outside the box, you may noticed that white males have been victimised and marginalised just as much as any other group on earth. Possibly not for that particular reason, but then all white males aren't the same. That's stereotyping. This "white males" group have been persecuted for being Gauls, for being Romans, for being living in a province belonging to a particular liege, for being Christians, for being non-Christians, for being the wrong kind of Christians, for being the wrong sexual orientation, for having the wrong last name on their birth certificate (ethnic cleansing, hello?), killed in their millions at the frontlines of various wars and so on. Simply saying people have been better of through history for being "white males" is a gross over simplification imho.

 

Edit: Yay me, that wasn't actually the specific line I wanted to quote, but you get the idea

 

Edit2: Being a real cynic, you could say, just like in nature, (white) males are usually considered expendable once they've served their purpose.

[Volourn]

"onestly I'm not sure they should be in that case, while it would be nice for 'Schrodinger's Father' to have some input ultimately it's not his body and thus not his choice (bodily autonomy/integrity and all of that). But that's a discussion that has been done plenty of times already and is a bit off topic."

 

It's also not what I was referring to either.

 

That said, since you brought up the whole abortion thing up... I do believe men should have an 'opt out' option as well were they lose  all rights and responsibliities of being a parent. But, hey, then again, we live in a world where it is legakl to inprison a man who was lied to about being a father when he actually wasn't.

 

\But, yeah, more proof that this is a 'man's world'. LMAO

 

Again, there are so many anti men stances in this world it's beyond laughable.

[Hurlshort]

Where did all the humorous posters go on these forums?  

[BruceVC]

Where did all the humorous posters go on these forums?  

 

You still active ? 

[Amentep]

(and a few other ethnic groups as well that aren't deemed 'oppressed' by people such as yourself), with things such as 'Affirmative action' and the like. Sexism with 'Title 9' and the like.

In my experience (YMMV):

 

US's "Affirmative Action" ends up amounting to "If person 'A' and person 'B' are equally suited for a job (same degree, experience, etc) you can't hire person 'A' over person 'B' because of A's race." It doesn't mean that if you have 4 Y Race people and 3 Z Race people you have to hire a Z Race person next regardless of job knowledge, experience or other pertinent hiring factors.

 

Title IX is against discrimination against men or women by a federally funded program.  We mostly know about it from collegiate athletics in education to address high disparate spending and opportunity based on gender.  A college might have, for example, a Basketball, Soccer, Lacrosse, softball, tennis and track team for gender A and a Basketball, Soccer, Tennis, Softball and volleyball team for gender b.  The participation and scholarship opportunity for gender A students is disparate with gender B.  This gives less access to gender B and under Title IX this can't happen in a program that receives federal funds.

 

It has, based on some non-sports related wording, also provided a "don't sexually harrass/rape other students" rule. 

 

 

For example are women really equal to men in the corporate world? 30 years ago many people thought that a women's role was in the kitchen getting the dinner ready, the TV series Mad Men highlights just how bad and institutionalized sexism was

 

Not sure I would have went with a "fictional show illustrates how life was like 50 years ago" example, but maybe it'll work out for you.

[pseudonymous]

Where did all the humorous posters go on these forums?  

 

They're wondering why it's "racist" for a white woman to sing along to the chorus of "All Gold Everything".  Would you complain if it was Oprah?