The Official Romance Thread

[Prideaux]

I really dont understand the romance thing, sure it adds another layer of depth to the game but their absence doesnt upset me. And i saw that as a person who loves complex games like IE and have been playing them forever. I just dont understand why their exclusion is a red flag for so many.

[logicalconundrum]

Just my thoughts.  It should always be optional.  The PC shouldn't be treated as be-all and end-all (even in non-romance situations).

 

Flirting can be fun to read (with the PC or between the NPCs only).

 

In short, it can be done very, very well and add immensely to the depth of the character (and sometimes the story).  And most of the time I find it has been done not well at all to a total mood breaker when playing a game.  Much the same as with any media (books, film, TV, music, etc.).

 

Unfortunately, with RPG's it's going to add a multitude of different branches if you want to do it right.  Though while I understand why it might be left out, I still reserve the right to note that a romance (again, even just between NPCs and not necessarily the PC) might have added another facet to the story.

[Fredward]

I noticed in someone's vid (I think it was RPS) that one of the responses you can have for why you're on the caravan thingie is that you're looking for love. Really that's enough for me. I certainly wouldn't mind some flirting or vague implications of deeper romance but I only really need to know that love/romance isn't treated as if it doesn't exist at all and I'm happy.

[mrhorseshoe]

Lets just say if they were to release a Romance DLC I would buy it. 

[Sable Phoenix]

Lets just say if they were to release a Romance DLC I would buy it. 

Haha, you and me both.

 

Some of the most memorable relationships I've experienced with digital characters were the romances.  The Nameless One and Anna, Revan and Carth Onasi, the Grey Warden and the (both incredibly sweet) romances with Alistair and Leliana.  Of course there have been plenty of shallow and unmemorable romances as well; I don't really remember the Jade Empire romances having much resonance for example, or the KOTOR2 romances (heck, Atton Rand's actually creeped me out, but I didn't really care for any of the characters in that game anyway... different strokes for different folks I guess).

 

With Chris Avelone and all the other stellar writers at Obsidian involved, I'm sure they could pull off some deep and memorable romances in Pillars of Eternity.  Here's hoping we get that exact DLC.

[Halsy]

What about a rock? Can I fall in love with a rock? Because than I could be Romancing the Stone!

[RedSocialKnight]

I felt a closer tie with Arcade Gannon, who had no explicitly romantic dialogue, than I ever did with Zevran, my ostensible romance in DA:O. Arcade was simply well-written enough that I had a clear sense of him as a person my character was travelling with.

 

I think the same was true of Veronica -- in my roommate's mind she was absolutely his waifu even though there was no storyline about it in the game.

 

Romantic conversations in games don't usually add a lot to the creation of a three-dimensional character -- certainly, the sex scenes don't. I'd rather just have the writers spend their time on providing an interesting background to all the characters, who players can then head-canon into lovers if they choose, than on ensuring there's a menu of sexual flavors to be selected from.

 

[ETA: this is not intended as a back-handed slam against Bioware's character writing -- the love interests in DA:Inquisition were also well-written and interesting. I just think they would have been equally interesting without the skin.]

Edited March 25, 2015 by RedSocialKnight

[LeBurns]

I'd love to see it.  Most reason I have for it have already been mentioned so no point in rehashing.

 

I know that if this game did have them it would have been a day one purchase.  As it is now I'm just going to sit back and wait on a sale ... or romance DLC.

[raiiban]

I hate romances in RPG games and feel like there's no place for them whatsoever. I do acknowledge that there are plenty of people who do enjoy it and push for them to be a part of the game, but at the same time I tend to look down upon them. Can't help it! I just hate those options so much I can't fathom why anyone would want it. I've had weird experiences with certain games (*cough*bioware*cough*) trying a little too hard to make gay romance available and giving me dumb dialogue options that made the immersion go down the tubes.

 

If you have to put romance junk in a game it should be optional, and I don't mean "If you don't take a dialogue option it won't go any further" I mean I want a button in the game options that says "Enable Romance? [Y/N]" so I can uncheck that sucker and never see one single bit of that garbage in any of the game.

[Sable Phoenix]

Please don't read this in an accusatory tone, but instead in the spirit of genuine curiosity that it's intended:

 

You look down on people who enjoy RPG romances?  That's kind of bizarre to me.  Why are you so vehement about your feelings on that subject?

 

I can understand hating certain options in RPGs.  I hate evil options, I've never played an RPG where I went through as an evil, or even predominantly selfish, character.  To me, any given RPG would only be improved if all the time and effort put into developing the content in an evil playthrough was instead devoted to expanding the content of the good path.  However, I know some people like that kind of playthrough, and ultimately, I feel like broadening the potential playerbase for a game I enjoy is a good thing, even if the content developed to do so never directly benefits me.

 

I can't even fathom looking down on somebody who prefers to play things a different way than you do.  That goes for any opinion, really; looking down on someone just because they enjoy something you don't seems incredibly close-minded and judgmental.  If your best friend enjoyed RPG romances, would you still look down on him or her for it?

Edited March 25, 2015 by Sable Phoenix

[Sable Phoenix]

What about a rock? Can I fall in love with a rock? Because than I could be Romancing the Stone!

 

I regret to inform you that your punning behavior requires pun-ishment.

 

>defenestrates Halsy<

[raiiban]

Please don't read this in an accusatory tone, but instead in the spirit of genuine curiosity that it's intended:

 

You look down on people who enjoy RPG romances?  That's kind of bizarre to me.  Why are you so vehement about your feelings on that subject?

 

I can understand hating certain options in RPGs.  I hate evil options, I've never played an RPG where I went through as an evil, or even predominantly selfish, character.  To me, any given RPG would only be improved if all the time and effort put into developing the content in an evil playthrough was instead devoted to expanding the content of the good path.  However, I know some people like that kind of playthrough, and ultimately, I feel like broadening the potential playerbase for a game I enjoy is a good thing, even if the content developed to do so never directly benefits me.

 

I can't even fathom looking down on somebody who prefers to play things a different way than you do.  That goes for any opinion, really; looking down on someone just because they enjoy something you don't seems incredibly close-minded and judgmental.  If your best friend enjoyed RPG romances, would you still look down on him or her for it?

 

It's not so much that I look down on them as I tend to exaggerate things, so much as I just can't fathom why they want the romance options in the first place.

 

I've never truly had a romance story in an RPG game play out in a good way (if there's an exceptionally good one out there, let me know, I love to be proven wrong about these things), they always feel so shoehorned in and badly done that I can't imagine why anyone would want it. There are even people that say (as evidenced by this thread in fact) that having a romance option is such a big factor to them that they wouldn't buy a game without it. I'm kind of on the opposite end of that spectrum, I don't want a badly played out romance shoved in my face. After a bad experience with that kind of thing (among other bad things, of course) in Dragon Age 2, and seeing all that on display in DA3 previews I opted to skip the game entirely.

 

To me it's like people are playing the same game as me for different reasons, and since there's only so much you can fit into any game, allocating resources for a romance plot could take away from things that would be better served with more resources, similar to your example of not wanting the time and money spent on evil path options as the expense of good options/core gameplay.

 

Also I absolutely do snub my friends on certain games, as they do me. That's half the fun of talking game with people

[Fredward]

 

Please don't read this in an accusatory tone, but instead in the spirit of genuine curiosity that it's intended:

 

You look down on people who enjoy RPG romances?  That's kind of bizarre to me.  Why are you so vehement about your feelings on that subject?

 

I can understand hating certain options in RPGs.  I hate evil options, I've never played an RPG where I went through as an evil, or even predominantly selfish, character.  To me, any given RPG would only be improved if all the time and effort put into developing the content in an evil playthrough was instead devoted to expanding the content of the good path.  However, I know some people like that kind of playthrough, and ultimately, I feel like broadening the potential playerbase for a game I enjoy is a good thing, even if the content developed to do so never directly benefits me.

 

I can't even fathom looking down on somebody who prefers to play things a different way than you do.  That goes for any opinion, really; looking down on someone just because they enjoy something you don't seems incredibly close-minded and judgmental.  If your best friend enjoyed RPG romances, would you still look down on him or her for it?

 

It's not so much that I look down on them as I tend to exaggerate things, so much as I just can't fathom why they want the romance options in the first place.

 

I've never truly had a romance story in an RPG game play out in a good way (if there's an exceptionally good one out there, let me know, I love to be proven wrong about these things), they always feel so shoehorned in and badly done that I can't imagine why anyone would want it. There are even people that say (as evidenced by this thread in fact) that having a romance option is such a big factor to them that they wouldn't buy a game without it. I'm kind of on the opposite end of that spectrum, I don't want a badly played out romance shoved in my face. After a bad experience with that kind of thing (among other bad things, of course) in Dragon Age 2, and seeing all that on display in DA3 previews I opted to skip the game entirely.

 

To me it's like people are playing the same game as me for different reasons, and since there's only so much you can fit into any game, allocating resources for a romance plot could take away from things that would be better served with more resources, similar to your example of not wanting the time and money spent on evil path options as the expense of good options/core gameplay.

 

Also I absolutely do snub my friends on certain games, as they do me. That's half the fun of talking game with people

 

 

So basically it boils down to 'what you want is not what I want'?

[Sable Phoenix]

 

Please don't read this in an accusatory tone, but instead in the spirit of genuine curiosity that it's intended:

 

You look down on people who enjoy RPG romances?  That's kind of bizarre to me.  Why are you so vehement about your feelings on that subject?

 

I can understand hating certain options in RPGs.  I hate evil options, I've never played an RPG where I went through as an evil, or even predominantly selfish, character.  To me, any given RPG would only be improved if all the time and effort put into developing the content in an evil playthrough was instead devoted to expanding the content of the good path.  However, I know some people like that kind of playthrough, and ultimately, I feel like broadening the potential playerbase for a game I enjoy is a good thing, even if the content developed to do so never directly benefits me.

 

I can't even fathom looking down on somebody who prefers to play things a different way than you do.  That goes for any opinion, really; looking down on someone just because they enjoy something you don't seems incredibly close-minded and judgmental.  If your best friend enjoyed RPG romances, would you still look down on him or her for it?

 

It's not so much that I look down on them as I tend to exaggerate things, so much as I just can't fathom why they want the romance options in the first place.

 

I've never truly had a romance story in an RPG game play out in a good way (if there's an exceptionally good one out there, let me know, I love to be proven wrong about these things), they always feel so shoehorned in and badly done that I can't imagine why anyone would want it. There are even people that say (as evidenced by this thread in fact) that having a romance option is such a big factor to them that they wouldn't buy a game without it. I'm kind of on the opposite end of that spectrum, I don't want a badly played out romance shoved in my face. After a bad experience with that kind of thing (among other bad things, of course) in Dragon Age 2, and seeing all that on display in DA3 previews I opted to skip the game entirely.

 

To me it's like people are playing the same game as me for different reasons, and since there's only so much you can fit into any game, allocating resources for a romance plot could take away from things that would be better served with more resources, similar to your example of not wanting the time and money spent on evil path options as the expense of good options/core gameplay.

 

Also I absolutely do snub my friends on certain games, as they do me. That's half the fun of talking game with people

 

 

If you're using Dragon Age 2 as your metric for RPG romances, I'd suggest expanding your repertoire a little.  Frankly, Bioware's romance writing has... not been stellar, of late, not since they were acquired by EA.

 

As I've previously mentioned, Anna from Planescape:Torment had a (in my opinion) touching and organic romance, if you chose to pursue it.  Actually, so did Deionarra, even though she was a ghost... it was also very unusual because a lot of it was played out by experiencing flashbacks of TNO's relationship with her in their previous life, and then responding to those in the present.  The fact that your previous incarnation was a heartless bastard who was just using her, but that you could use this current life to make it up to her spirit and even fall in love with her retroactively in your quest to set her free, was something that made the whole romance subplot very touching and bittersweet and something unique among any RPG romance I've ever seen.

 

I've always thought that Carth Onasi's romance in KOTOR was really well done, proving that yes, BioWare CAN write romances well if they really try.  If your Revan was a little sarcastic and a little flirty (basically possessed of a well-developed sense of humor, keep in mind you DID program HK-47 after all), not overly sympathetic when he expressed his emotions to her, but not dismissive or cruel either, and always remained Light side, Carth would fall for you.  If you weren't that particular combination, he would just be your good friend.  It all felt very organic and natural.  I remember my very first playthrough my Revan was completely soft-hearted, being purely sympathetic and gentle whenever Carth opened up about his past tragedies, and despite taking flirtatious conversation options, by the end of the game he thought of her as a friend and leader but he wasn't in love with her.  My next playthrough (and others afterward) saw me playing a more snarky, irreverent Revan who wasn't afraid to verbally slap him around a little bit, and that stronger, more assertive personality meant that by the end of the game he pulled out the "I love you" card.  Which was honestly a surprise to me, as my previous playthrough had conditioned me to expect that there was no actual romance there.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Sable Phoenix

[Longknife]

Romance in games is dumb.

[Sable Phoenix]

Romance in games is dumb.

 

>crosses legs, adjusts glasses, picks up pen and notepad<

 

Interestingk.  Vhy do you feel dis vhey?

[raiiban]

 

 

Please don't read this in an accusatory tone, but instead in the spirit of genuine curiosity that it's intended:

 

You look down on people who enjoy RPG romances?  That's kind of bizarre to me.  Why are you so vehement about your feelings on that subject?

 

I can understand hating certain options in RPGs.  I hate evil options, I've never played an RPG where I went through as an evil, or even predominantly selfish, character.  To me, any given RPG would only be improved if all the time and effort put into developing the content in an evil playthrough was instead devoted to expanding the content of the good path.  However, I know some people like that kind of playthrough, and ultimately, I feel like broadening the potential playerbase for a game I enjoy is a good thing, even if the content developed to do so never directly benefits me.

 

I can't even fathom looking down on somebody who prefers to play things a different way than you do.  That goes for any opinion, really; looking down on someone just because they enjoy something you don't seems incredibly close-minded and judgmental.  If your best friend enjoyed RPG romances, would you still look down on him or her for it?

 

It's not so much that I look down on them as I tend to exaggerate things, so much as I just can't fathom why they want the romance options in the first place.

 

I've never truly had a romance story in an RPG game play out in a good way (if there's an exceptionally good one out there, let me know, I love to be proven wrong about these things), they always feel so shoehorned in and badly done that I can't imagine why anyone would want it. There are even people that say (as evidenced by this thread in fact) that having a romance option is such a big factor to them that they wouldn't buy a game without it. I'm kind of on the opposite end of that spectrum, I don't want a badly played out romance shoved in my face. After a bad experience with that kind of thing (among other bad things, of course) in Dragon Age 2, and seeing all that on display in DA3 previews I opted to skip the game entirely.

 

To me it's like people are playing the same game as me for different reasons, and since there's only so much you can fit into any game, allocating resources for a romance plot could take away from things that would be better served with more resources, similar to your example of not wanting the time and money spent on evil path options as the expense of good options/core gameplay.

 

Also I absolutely do snub my friends on certain games, as they do me. That's half the fun of talking game with people

 

 

If you're using Dragon Age 2 as your metric for RPG romances, I'd suggest expanding your repertoire a little.  Frankly, Bioware's romance writing has... not been stellar, of late, not since they were acquired by EA.

 

As I've previously mentioned, Anna from Planescape:Torment had a (in my opinion) touching and organic romance, if you chose to pursue it.  Actually, so did Deionarra, even though she was a ghost... it was also very unusual because a lot of it was played out by experiencing flashbacks of TNO's relationship with her in their previous life, and then responding to those in the present.  The fact that your previous incarnation was a heartless bastard who was just using her, but that you could use this current life to make it up to her spirit and even fall in love with her retroactively in your quest to set her free, was something that made the whole romance subplot very touching and bittersweet and something unique among any RPG romance I've ever seen.

 

I've always thought that Carth Onasi's romance in KOTOR was really well done, proving that yes, BioWare CAN write romances well if they really try.  If your Revan was a little sarcastic and a little flirty (basically possessed of a well-developed sense of humor, keep in mind you DID program HK-47 after all), not overly sympathetic when he expressed his emotions to her, but not dismissive or cruel either, and always remained Light side, Carth would fall for you.  If you weren't that particular combination, he would just be your good friend.  It all felt very organic and natural.  I remember my very first playthrough my Revan was completely soft-hearted, being purely sympathetic and gentle whenever Carth opened up about his past tragedies, and despite taking flirtatious conversation options, by the end of the game he thought of her as a friend and leader but he wasn't in love with her.  My next playthrough (and others afterward) saw me playing a more snarky, irreverent Revan who wasn't afraid to verbally slap him around a little bit, and that stronger, more assertive personality meant that by the end of the game he pulled out the "I love you" card.  Which was honestly a surprise to me, as my previous playthrough had conditioned me to expect that there was no actual romance there.

 

I never pursued Deionarra, and I won't lie, that sounds like a pretty interesting thread. More for the overall story of the characters than the romance itself. I'll make a note to take that route in my next playthrough. It could change my perspective a bit in the future, or just make me retroactively nostalgic for the times when games had actual good romance stories, haha.

[lordgarius73]

To me since this game claims Baldur's gate as one of its spiritual ancestor's and from what I've seen the writer's intense dislike of romance that is what prevent's me from buying this game ever it was on my steam wishlist no longer. Had it not mentioned that would I of bought it? Absolutely...Had the writer's showed even slightly less dislike almost bordering on hatred for romance would I of bought it? Absolutely But combining those two the almost hate for it and the fact they claimed those were spiritual ancestor's to this game show's me that might of just been using that for sales and that to me shows an arrogance that I can not deal with. If you claim baldur's gate as a spiritual ancestor most think Baldur's gate 2 as that was by far the best of the series you play Baldur's gate once the 2nd is where the memories lie it had the better writing,better banter,and yes the romances which both I and many player's loved the story was amazing yes but the interaction's and romance were major component's in how fun it was so without that yet them claiming this as a successor I shall pass on this hopefully many other's do as well and the writer's learn to respect the lineage they attempt to claim for their game and not show such a revulsion in parts of that lineage.

I just never considered the romances in BG2 to be a huge deal.  I mean there were no sex scenes or kissing or even a hug.  It was all in the dialogue...you say the right things and all of sudden one of the NPCs is in love with you.  There wasn't much of challenge there.  So I think your a little off base with PoE not truly being a spiritual successor to those games.  IWD was also mentioned and from what I understood they were taking elements from both those games.

[LeBurns]

 

To me since this game claims Baldur's gate as one of its spiritual ancestor's and from what I've seen the writer's intense dislike of romance that is what prevent's me from buying this game ever it was on my steam wishlist no longer. Had it not mentioned that would I of bought it? Absolutely...Had the writer's showed even slightly less dislike almost bordering on hatred for romance would I of bought it? Absolutely But combining those two the almost hate for it and the fact they claimed those were spiritual ancestor's to this game show's me that might of just been using that for sales and that to me shows an arrogance that I can not deal with. If you claim baldur's gate as a spiritual ancestor most think Baldur's gate 2 as that was by far the best of the series you play Baldur's gate once the 2nd is where the memories lie it had the better writing,better banter,and yes the romances which both I and many player's loved the story was amazing yes but the interaction's and romance were major component's in how fun it was so without that yet them claiming this as a successor I shall pass on this hopefully many other's do as well and the writer's learn to respect the lineage they attempt to claim for their game and not show such a revulsion in parts of that lineage.

I just never considered the romances in BG2 to be a huge deal.  I mean there were no sex scenes or kissing or even a hug.  It was all in the dialogue...you say the right things and all of sudden one of the NPCs is in love with you.  There wasn't much of challenge there.  So I think your a little off base with PoE not truly being a spiritual successor to those games.  IWD was also mentioned and from what I understood they were taking elements from both those games.

 

 

I actually much prefer the 'Fade to Black' of BG and KotOR than to the awkward scenes BioWare has now.  If all I wanted to see was the sex show anyway I have the internet for that.

[Longknife]

 

Romance in games is dumb.

 

>crosses legs, adjusts glasses, picks up pen and notepad<

 

Interestingk.  Vhy do you feel dis vhey?

 

 

 

Because romance is like the trope of tropes. You can find tons of TV shows and media where the entire thing that holds everything together is sexual tension between two people who like each other but are trying to figure out how to express their love. It's the most cliché thing imagineable, and not only that, but it being a seller for TV shows and movies does not translate well into games. Why? Because with romance you are essentially looking for someone you'd be willing to spend the rest of your life with, but in a video game she's a friggin' string of AI programming. It'll be abysmally limited in scope, and the likelihood of something coming off as cheesy, corny, awkward or plain out of character for you is incredibly high.

 

   Ultimately, I firmly believe video games function much like a pie graph. A video game is going to have a deadline for release and thus can't include everything. It's a pie graph in the sense that if you ask for better graphics, it takes time away from story or gameplay mechanics and vice versa. Here, I'm not willing to sacrifice more original and thought-provoking story elements to some cliche crap I can find literally anywhere and honestly doesn't translate that well into video games anyways, imo.

 

If you want romance so you can feel all bashful and squishy about a fictional waifu, go watch one of the dozens of harem animes or the Twilight series if you're a girl. But please, do not detract from a game's potential to have original story content by asking for the same exact thing you can get literally anywhere else.

[Jayngo]

It seems like all the RPG's I've played for the past 7-8 years include Romance. It's actually going to be resfreshing NOT to worry about Romance in this game. Just let me talk to people normally, slay monsters, and loot glorious treasure. Oh, and talk to Dragons. BTW, do Dragons talk in this world??? I sure hope so....

[lordgarius73]

 

 

To me since this game claims Baldur's gate as one of its spiritual ancestor's and from what I've seen the writer's intense dislike of romance that is what prevent's me from buying this game ever it was on my steam wishlist no longer. Had it not mentioned that would I of bought it? Absolutely...Had the writer's showed even slightly less dislike almost bordering on hatred for romance would I of bought it? Absolutely But combining those two the almost hate for it and the fact they claimed those were spiritual ancestor's to this game show's me that might of just been using that for sales and that to me shows an arrogance that I can not deal with. If you claim baldur's gate as a spiritual ancestor most think Baldur's gate 2 as that was by far the best of the series you play Baldur's gate once the 2nd is where the memories lie it had the better writing,better banter,and yes the romances which both I and many player's loved the story was amazing yes but the interaction's and romance were major component's in how fun it was so without that yet them claiming this as a successor I shall pass on this hopefully many other's do as well and the writer's learn to respect the lineage they attempt to claim for their game and not show such a revulsion in parts of that lineage.

I just never considered the romances in BG2 to be a huge deal.  I mean there were no sex scenes or kissing or even a hug.  It was all in the dialogue...you say the right things and all of sudden one of the NPCs is in love with you.  There wasn't much of challenge there.  So I think your a little off base with PoE not truly being a spiritual successor to those games.  IWD was also mentioned and from what I understood they were taking elements from both those games.

 

 

I actually much prefer the 'Fade to Black' of BG and KotOR than to the awkward scenes BioWare has now.  If all I wanted to see was the sex show anyway I have the internet for that.

 

Well and that kind of goes the sentiment that romance in video games is just awkward in general.  I recently replayed MotB and didn't even realize Safiya was romance-able until the very end and she was all like "my love" this and "my love" that.  Maybe if the dialogue is done right and carefully crafted throughout the game it could be a benefit but my experience with romances in RPGs is at best they are silly and at worst they are distracting.

[Fredward]

   Ultimately, I firmly believe video games function much like a pie graph. A video game is going to have a deadline for release and thus can't include everything. It's a pie graph in the sense that if you ask for better graphics, it takes time away from story or gameplay mechanics and vice versa. Here, I'm not willing to sacrifice more original and thought-provoking story elements to some cliche crap I can find literally anywhere and honestly doesn't translate that well into video games anyways, imo.

 

If you want romance so you can feel all bashful and squishy about a fictional waifu, go watch one of the dozens of harem animes or the Twilight series if you're a girl. But please, do not detract from a game's potential to have original story content by asking for the same exact thing you can get literally anywhere else.

 

So, again, it boils down to 'what you want is not what I want.' It takes time away from story or gameplay? Conceivably. Now what if someone else considered that sacrifice worth it? Is there any way to say whether they are objectively wrong for believing that? For having different priorities when it comes their games? By the same token you tell someone to go watch harem anime they can tell you to go play X game with no romance but a great story.gameplay.

 

It's just preference yeah? And if it was usually argued like that I wouldn't be bothered so much but often people seem to think their preferences are objectively better and they take this high-horse, upturned nose approach to anyone who doesn't share it and that view just isn't... valid.

[sparklecat]

Personally, I support the inclusion of understated romance in games - if your character and a companion NPC get along well enough and you know your PC would be interested in them, often it can feel more unrealistic and immersion-breaking that there's no possibility of suggesting you'd like the relationship to go in a different direction.  But too much development of the romance itself is not a good idea, simply because I don't think that's something that can adequately be done in this format where you're dealing with one character that's pre-written and another that's largely in the mind of the player.  Leave it at flirting, at suggestion, at "one day after this is all over," and as an added bonus the relatively small amount of such content means you can make it available on more characters, where appropriate.

[Longknife]

 

   Ultimately, I firmly believe video games function much like a pie graph. A video game is going to have a deadline for release and thus can't include everything. It's a pie graph in the sense that if you ask for better graphics, it takes time away from story or gameplay mechanics and vice versa. Here, I'm not willing to sacrifice more original and thought-provoking story elements to some cliche crap I can find literally anywhere and honestly doesn't translate that well into video games anyways, imo.

 

If you want romance so you can feel all bashful and squishy about a fictional waifu, go watch one of the dozens of harem animes or the Twilight series if you're a girl. But please, do not detract from a game's potential to have original story content by asking for the same exact thing you can get literally anywhere else.

 

So, again, it boils down to 'what you want is not what I want.' It takes time away from story or gameplay? Conceivably. Now what if someone else considered that sacrifice worth it? Is there any way to say whether they are objectively wrong for believing that? For having different priorities when it comes their games? By the same token you tell someone to go watch harem anime they can tell you to go play X game with no romance but a great story.gameplay.

 

It's just preference yeah? And if it was usually argued like that I wouldn't be bothered so much but often people seem to think their preferences are objectively better and they take this high-horse, upturned nose approach to anyone who doesn't share it and that view just isn't... valid.

 

 

 

This is what it boils down to:

 

Chris Avellone can write.

 

Chris Avellone gets paid to do what he does.

 

Chris Avellone does not want to write romance.

 

 

 

  I'm sorry, but while it is an issue of preferences, I would be more inclined to put value in his preferences over those of a stranger on the internet. Moreso because even if you and everyone on the planet from George Bush to my dead grandmother wanted romance, but Chris Avellone and others who don't actually like romance are writing the game...? Probably not ideal to force them to write something they hate writing. This would be akin to if you expected me to write a great novel about the struggles of being a Muslim in Japan when I'm not any of that.

 

 

So it's that simple. It is preference, so in that regard, what reason do YOU have to voice a vote for romance when the developers themselves clearly do not want it?

 

 

And yes, sorry, but there is going to be a degree of high horsing here and there. And yes, I am going to high horse on this subject matter. Not in some elitist belief I'm a better, more educated person and all my opinions are solid gold material mind you, but because I've given all the romance media a shot, and it's all the ****ing same.  If you have seen one, you've seen them all. I skimmed, but above there's a comment by a guy saying he's gonna have to give romance with X character from X game a shot, though it sounds as though it's still the story and character that are more compelling, not the romance aspects. This is the exact train of thought that rings true with me. Romance is just a cliche that's used over and over and over to hook people in, but when it comes to actually being original or thought-provoking in any way? It's not. How can it be? What's thought provoking about two people loving each other? Nothing unless something about one of the characters is thought-provoking, in which case the romance is something entirely different and not neccesary to the quality of that character.

 

   And to re-iterate: Again these guys made New Vegas. Excellent game, excellent story, and my money hands down for best written game of this millenia thusfar. It did not have romance. It didn't need it. The "survival of the fittest"-meets-philosophy story it had going for it was something very original and by no means overdone in media, and I loved every second of it. Had that been traded for "FIND CASS BOOZE SO SHE CAN BECOME YOUR WAIFU" then I think the game would've drastically suffered for it.  I would argue that even IF you have absolutely no interest in New Vegas' plot, an original idea holds far more worth and weight than a "good" idea (by your standards or rather the standards of an example person) just regurgitated back at us again. If Obsidian were to come on these forums right now and say'll make a new Fallout and they can either play it safe and revamp New Vegas' story elements and kinda repeat them in new ways or try a new style with new elements of war entirely, I would opt for the latter.

 

 And that's why yes, people are going to get a little high-horse about romance: it's not some belief that omg my opinion is gold so worship it, it's a desire to see new ideas and a disgust when people are begging and insisting to see the same old elements again and again and again, to the point where it drowns out any new potential stories or ideas.