11 people killed at a French satirical Newspaper

[BruceVC]

Riots in Niger over cartoons;

4 dead, 45 injured. Fires in French cultural center, 3 churches set ablaze, christian stores demolised.

 

Apparently they didn't get the "Not all muslim are like the Charlie-attackers" memo... such a peaceful religion...

 

I can understand how  easy it can be  to look around the world and say " Muslims are getting more and more extreme and intransigent" 

 

But thats a spurious view, we know there are pockets of Islamic fundamentalist throughout the world. And you ALWAYS gets riots and venting and burning of Western flags in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan. Thats a given. but thats because the people of those countries dislike the West for a variety of unreasonable reasons.

 

We need to accept that, its a reality that the world faces a threat on different levels from extremism. People like myself have been saying this for the last 14 years....yes 9/11 really happened and was committed by Al-Qaeda

 

But that doesn't mean that the  vast majority of Muslims support violence. So we mustn't exaggerate this problem which leads to a tacit and open increase of Islamophobia. And we want to avoid this

[Valsuelm]

 

...we know there are pockets of Islamic fundamentalist throughout the world. And you ALWAYS gets riots and venting and burning of Western flags in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan. Thats a given. but thats because the people of those countries dislike the West for a variety of unreasonable reasons.

LOL

 

Yea... it's totally unreasonable to dislike some folks because they attack and bomb where you live over a period of years. Totally!

[BruceVC]

 

 

...we know there are pockets of Islamic fundamentalist throughout the world. And you ALWAYS gets riots and venting and burning of Western flags in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan. Thats a given. but thats because the people of those countries dislike the West for a variety of unreasonable reasons.

LOL

 

Yea... it's totally unreasonable to dislike some folks because they attack and bomb where you live over a period of years. Totally!

 

 

Sure, but apart from the bombings and the invasions there reason are unreasonable   

[Darkpriest]

Well the riots are not only in Nigeria.

 

We are talking about mass riots in around 15 other countries, including attacks on embassies, churches and places related to France. Quite a few officials from Middle-East called the new drawing irresponsible etc.

 

yeah, muslism, much peace, so wow....

[licketysplit]

 

Well the riots are not only in Nigeria.

 

We are talking about mass riots in around 15 other countries, including attacks on embassies, churches and places related to France. Quite a few officials from Middle-East called the new drawing irresponsible etc.

 

yeah, muslism, much peace, so wow....

 

Why would a religion invented by a warlord in the middle ages know of peace? Islam is about assimilation.

Edited January 17, 2015 by licketysplit

[Neifirst]

Oh my f***ing god... Just grow up world. I came on this forum to try and escape some of the Charlie bull****. I should have known better. I've seen some of the most ignorant, islamaphobic crap on here... Jeez, some of you guys just like being told who's the bad guy and who's threatening your civil liberties, don't you? Lapping it up there. For the record:

1. More guns would not have made this better. That's less guns you're thinking of. LESS guns.
2. Islam is not the bad guy - no more than all the (many more) acts of terrorism caused by atheists and Christians, for instance.
3. This is not about freedom of speech - this about war. It's about dead children (of whatever country or faith), in which we are all complicit. Take responsibility - it'll help.
4. Did it ever occur who profits from this?

Apologies if this seems harsh, and the mods may be like, 'Nooooo ho ho ho', but I've been nursing a rant about this for some time.

:S

Cheers!

 

[Volourn]

Defending killers again? I bet you never defended Catholics when they were targeting abortion clinics right?

 

Hypocrites.

 

Why is it so taboo to point out the obvious faults in certain religions and not others?

 

\Catholics, christians, jews, etc. can be (rightfully) criticiczed for failings but not Islam? Get over it's pedophile founder's  ****.

\

\Plenty of good people who are muslims but the religion has major weaknesses causing it to be dragged down. Stop defending it stop making excuses for murderers. And, no bringing up  evil done by other religions is NOT a good defense.

 

L0L 'many more acts of terrorism causes by athiests and christians'. HAHAHAA!

 

That right there says everything I need to know about  this bigot.

[Neifirst]

Defending killers again? I bet you never defended Catholics when they were targeting abortion clinics right?

 

Hypocrites.

 

Why is it so taboo to point out the obvious faults in certain religions and not others?

 

\Catholics, christians, jews, etc. can be (rightfully) criticiczed for failings but not Islam? Get over it's pedophile founder's  ****.

\

\Plenty of good people who are muslims but the religion has major weaknesses causing it to be dragged down. Stop defending it stop making excuses for murderers. And, no bringing up  evil done by other religions is NOT a good defense.

 

L0L 'many more acts of terrorism causes by athiests and christians'. HAHAHAA!

 

That right there says everything I need to know about  this bigot.

Wow, never been known as a bigot before. I'm not making excuses for killing. Clearly. I'm just saying that by having a go at Islam, or religion in general, *you* are excusing all other religious/atheist/other crimes (which demonstrably make up the majority in the longue duree) . Essentially, you're missing the point. You're the apologist. All crimes are bad. People can be bad. Focusing on one type (not even really related to Islam) shows your bigotry. Doesn't it?

 

Please don't fall for this bulls***.

[Hurlshort]

Oh my f***ing god... Just grow up world. I came on this forum to try and escape some of the Charlie bull****. I should have known better. I've seen some of the most ignorant, islamaphobic crap on here... Jeez, some of you guys just like being told who's the bad guy and who's threatening your civil liberties, don't you? Lapping it up there. For the record:

 

1. More guns would not have made this better. That's less guns you're thinking of. LESS guns.

2. Islam is not the bad guy - no more than all the (many more) acts of terrorism caused by atheists and Christians, for instance.

3. This is not about freedom of speech - this about war. It's about dead children (of whatever country or faith), in which we are all complicit. Take responsibility - it'll help.

4. Did it ever occur who profits from this?

 

Apologies if this seems harsh, and the mods may be like, 'Nooooo ho ho ho', but I've been nursing a rant about this for some time.

 

:S

 

Cheers!

 

Welcome to the forums!  

[Neifirst]

 

Oh my f***ing god... Just grow up world. I came on this forum to try and escape some of the Charlie bull****. I should have known better. I've seen some of the most ignorant, islamaphobic crap on here... Jeez, some of you guys just like being told who's the bad guy and who's threatening your civil liberties, don't you? Lapping it up there. For the record:

 

1. More guns would not have made this better. That's less guns you're thinking of. LESS guns.

2. Islam is not the bad guy - no more than all the (many more) acts of terrorism caused by atheists and Christians, for instance.

3. This is not about freedom of speech - this about war. It's about dead children (of whatever country or faith), in which we are all complicit. Take responsibility - it'll help.

4. Did it ever occur who profits from this?

 

Apologies if this seems harsh, and the mods may be like, 'Nooooo ho ho ho', but I've been nursing a rant about this for some time.

 

:S

 

Cheers!

 

Welcome to the forums!  

 

Fanks!

[BruceVC]

Oh my f***ing god... Just grow up world. I came on this forum to try and escape some of the Charlie bull****. I should have known better. I've seen some of the most ignorant, islamaphobic crap on here... Jeez, some of you guys just like being told who's the bad guy and who's threatening your civil liberties, don't you? Lapping it up there. For the record:

 

1. More guns would not have made this better. That's less guns you're thinking of. LESS guns.

2. Islam is not the bad guy - no more than all the (many more) acts of terrorism caused by atheists and Christians, for instance.

3. This is not about freedom of speech - this about war. It's about dead children (of whatever country or faith), in which we are all complicit. Take responsibility - it'll help.

4. Did it ever occur who profits from this?

 

Apologies if this seems harsh, and the mods may be like, 'Nooooo ho ho ho', but I've been nursing a rant about this for some time.

 

:S

 

Cheers!

 

Why who does profit from this ?

 

And please don't say that the USA is behind the rise of Islamic extremism so they can money from it

[JadedWolf]

 

Oh my f***ing god... Just grow up world. I came on this forum to try and escape some of the Charlie bull****. I should have known better. I've seen some of the most ignorant, islamaphobic crap on here... Jeez, some of you guys just like being told who's the bad guy and who's threatening your civil liberties, don't you? Lapping it up there. For the record:

 

1. More guns would not have made this better. That's less guns you're thinking of. LESS guns.

2. Islam is not the bad guy - no more than all the (many more) acts of terrorism caused by atheists and Christians, for instance.

3. This is not about freedom of speech - this about war. It's about dead children (of whatever country or faith), in which we are all complicit. Take responsibility - it'll help.

4. Did it ever occur who profits from this?

 

Apologies if this seems harsh, and the mods may be like, 'Nooooo ho ho ho', but I've been nursing a rant about this for some time.

 

:S

 

Cheers!

 

Why who does profit from this ?

 

And please don't say that the USA is behind the rise of Islamic extremism so they can money from it

 

 

It's the lizardmen from Mars. Tjeez.

 

Get with the program.

 

To Neifirst: don't take the posters here too seriously, it's bad for your blood pressure.

[Walsingham]

 

 

Oh my f***ing god... Just grow up world. I came on this forum to try and escape some of the Charlie bull****. I should have known better. I've seen some of the most ignorant, islamaphobic crap on here... Jeez, some of you guys just like being told who's the bad guy and who's threatening your civil liberties, don't you? Lapping it up there. For the record:

 

1. More guns would not have made this better. That's less guns you're thinking of. LESS guns.

2. Islam is not the bad guy - no more than all the (many more) acts of terrorism caused by atheists and Christians, for instance.

3. This is not about freedom of speech - this about war. It's about dead children (of whatever country or faith), in which we are all complicit. Take responsibility - it'll help.

4. Did it ever occur who profits from this?

 

Apologies if this seems harsh, and the mods may be like, 'Nooooo ho ho ho', but I've been nursing a rant about this for some time.

 

:S

 

Cheers!

 

Why who does profit from this ?

 

And please don't say that the USA is behind the rise of Islamic extremism so they can money from it

 

 

It's the lizardmen from Mars. Tjeez.

 

Get with the program.

 

To Neifirst: don't take the posters here too seriously, it's bad for your blood pressure.

 

 

Does it make your blood pressure worse ... or better?

[Hildegard]

Heldegard, great links, and while I don't agree with the firing  however you made one HUGE mistake. Nobody died there. How you equate firings with mass murder and try to equate them on a moral level? That's friggin' insane.

 

I didn't make a mistake because you missed my point. I was only trying to point out the hypocrisy behind the whole Freedom of speech which is everyone's mouth these days. It's freedom of speech when you draw cartoons of Mohammed but when you draw cartoons of an orthodox Hebrew it's antisemitism. 

[Hassat Hunter]

Do tell me about what terrorist attacks by "Jesus Ahkbar!" Christians or "Die Religious People!" atheists I've completely missed hearing about...

[Azdeus]

Do tell me about what terrorist attacks by "Jesus Ahkbar!" Christians or "Die Religious People!" atheists I've completely missed hearing about...

 

They use more insidious methods, such as "Evolution is just a theory" campaigns, or "Abortion is murder".

[JadedWolf]

Do tell me about what terrorist attacks by "Jesus Ahkbar!" Christians

 

You slept through the whole Northern-Ireland thing then? And that's just in Europe. In Africa and Asia there are plenty of examples to find of Christian terrorist groups. Sure, they don't have the impact that Islamic terrorists have, but they do exist.

 

Here's a nice start to begin looking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

 

Not to dig at religion, though. I have never quite understood it, but I suppose everyone needs an imaginary friend every now and then, and if they find their comfort that way who am I to judge. People will always find excuses to kill each other anyway. if it isn't religion, they'll think of something else.

[Valsuelm]

Claiming that everyone that doesn't buy into conspiracy theories is brainwashed really undercuts your otherwise interesting assertions and opinions.

 

Not really. The vast majority of people 'buy into conspiracy theories'. There are few people out there so skeptical as to not believe anything, or so stupid as to not think conspiracies happen. There are many though that have been brainwashed to not realize what it is they are even thinking, and that they've been conditioned to not think.

 

You happen to be one of the people who use 'conspiracy theory' as a pejorative. As a student of history you should know better.

 

The entire purpose of 'conspiracy theory' being a pejorative is to marginalize points of view, and stymie questioning and lines of thought that might be contrary to the official narrative as given by government(s) and mainstream media, whatever that may be. Nevermind that what the official narrative is might be a conspiracy theory itself. Nevermind that most people on planet earth have participated in a conspiracy of some sort at some point in their lives. Many of us a great many. Though I suppose this is less true for the growing number of anti-socials out there (as one needs more than just oneself to conspire).

 

If you want to debate and offer other possibilities in regards to 'conspiracy theory' X that's ever brought up, go for it. Do it on the merits of the evidence and those ideas. To dismiss evidence or a possibility out of hand as a 'conspiracy theory' because it doesn't jive with what you think already happened or is possible is foolish at best.

 

I'm not calling people who don't necessarily 'believe in' (it's not a matter of faith for most people) X brainwashed, I'm calling the people who would dismiss X as 'crazy', a 'conspiracy theory', or whatever out of hand before they even consider the evidence brainwashed. They have been conditioned to reject alternative viewpoints and evidence that might contradict their world view out of hand.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Valsuelm]

Staging this would be a massive undertaking that would require a fairly sizeable amount of conspirators.  This is the biggest problem with conspiracy theories, the more people involved, the less likely it is because most people are terrible at keeping secrets.  

 

The people who would take part in such a coverup definitely do not fall under the 'most people' banner. Most people would not partake in such a thing. But there are plenty of people out there world wide who would, and also know how to keep their mouths shut.

 

In the modern age of social media it's hard for many (especially those who participate in social media) to understand and appreciate those who can keep their mouths shut and why they might do it, about anything. Vanity and 'look at me' is a huge aspect of things like Facebook, Twitter, et al. So for people who are constantly wearing it all on their sleeve it's hard to imagine how some never roll up their sleeves. There are plenty of people who don't though, and when anyone is looking to hire someone for a job they look to hire people with certain qualifications, whatever they are. Whatever you want in a prospective employee is out there somewhere.

 

All that said, there's plenty of examples in history of people successfully keeping their mouth shut about X. As a student of history you should know this. Anyone who has ever looked at anything that's been declassified should know this as well.

[BruceVC]

 

Claiming that everyone that doesn't buy into conspiracy theories is brainwashed really undercuts your otherwise interesting assertions and opinions.

 

Not really. The vast majority of people 'buy into conspiracy theories'. There are few people out there so skeptical as to not believe anything, or so stupid as to not think conspiracies happen. There are many though that have been brainwashed to not realize what it is they are even thinking, and that they've been conditioned to not think.

 

You happen to be one of the people who use 'conspiracy theory' as a pejorative. As a student of history you should know better.

 

The entire purpose of 'conspiracy theory' being a pejorative is to marginalize points of view, and stymie questioning and lines of thought that might be contrary to the official narrative as given by government(s) and mainstream media, whatever that may be. Nevermind that what the official narrative is might be a conspiracy theory itself. Nevermind that most people on planet earth have participated in a conspiracy of some sort at some point in their lives. Many of us a great many. Though I suppose this is less true for the growing number of anti-socials out there (as one needs more than just oneself to conspire).

 

If you want to debate and offer other possibilities in regards to 'conspiracy theory' X that's ever brought up, go for it. Do it on the merits of the evidence and those ideas. To dismiss evidence or a possibility out of hand as a 'conspiracy theory' because it doesn't jive with what you think already happened or is possible is foolish at best.

 

I'm not calling people who don't necessarily 'believe in' (it's not a matter of faith for most people) X brainwashed, I'm calling the people who would dismiss X as 'crazy', a 'conspiracy theory', or whatever out of hand before they even consider the evidence brainwashed. They have been conditioned to reject alternative viewpoints and evidence that might contradict their world view out of hand.

 

 

Sorry Vals but somethings I can just dismiss without the need to have a debate, I'm fortunate like that. I know when something is nonsense 

[Hurlshort]

Val, you seem to be accusing me of generalizing all conspiracy theories, which is not my intention.  I am simply saying that your habit of generalizing most people as brainwashed undercuts your otherwise well stated arguments.  

 

Now conspiracy theories by their nature are the less than likely scenario.  In the classroom, I do a tremendous amount of cause and effect scenarios and I love to let my students come up with whatever possibilities they can.  I leave my personal opinions out of it.  As a history teacher, I actually see my personal beliefs as dangerous, for many of the reasons you have stated on here.  So this is a good place for me to be opinionated, it gives me an outlet away from the classroom.  

 

So I am going to look skeptically at most conspiracy theories.  If you would stop calling me brainwashed because of that I would appreciate it.  

[Valsuelm]

 

 

Claiming that everyone that doesn't buy into conspiracy theories is brainwashed really undercuts your otherwise interesting assertions and opinions.

 

Not really. The vast majority of people 'buy into conspiracy theories'. There are few people out there so skeptical as to not believe anything, or so stupid as to not think conspiracies happen. There are many though that have been brainwashed to not realize what it is they are even thinking, and that they've been conditioned to not think.

 

You happen to be one of the people who use 'conspiracy theory' as a pejorative. As a student of history you should know better.

 

The entire purpose of 'conspiracy theory' being a pejorative is to marginalize points of view, and stymie questioning and lines of thought that might be contrary to the official narrative as given by government(s) and mainstream media, whatever that may be. Nevermind that what the official narrative is might be a conspiracy theory itself. Nevermind that most people on planet earth have participated in a conspiracy of some sort at some point in their lives. Many of us a great many. Though I suppose this is less true for the growing number of anti-socials out there (as one needs more than just oneself to conspire).

 

If you want to debate and offer other possibilities in regards to 'conspiracy theory' X that's ever brought up, go for it. Do it on the merits of the evidence and those ideas. To dismiss evidence or a possibility out of hand as a 'conspiracy theory' because it doesn't jive with what you think already happened or is possible is foolish at best.

 

I'm not calling people who don't necessarily 'believe in' (it's not a matter of faith for most people) X brainwashed, I'm calling the people who would dismiss X as 'crazy', a 'conspiracy theory', or whatever out of hand before they even consider the evidence brainwashed. They have been conditioned to reject alternative viewpoints and evidence that might contradict their world view out of hand.

 

 

Sorry Vals but somethings I can just dismiss without the need to have a debate, I'm fortunate like that. I know when something is nonsense 

 

 

We all think we can do that, and to some degree or another most can. However some are far better at it than others.

 

From what I've seen on this forum however, your 'bull**** meter' as I usually refer to it, doesn't function all that well. I've seen you dismiss a number of things out of hand without ever looking at the evidence, and you yum up a good chunk of the bull**** that mainstream media or politican X splurts out.

 

That you'd even have to ask:

 

 

 

Oh my f***ing god... Just grow up world. I came on this forum to try and escape some of the Charlie bull****. I should have known better. I've seen some of the most ignorant, islamaphobic crap on here... Jeez, some of you guys just like being told who's the bad guy and who's threatening your civil liberties, don't you? Lapping it up there. For the record:

 

1. More guns would not have made this better. That's less guns you're thinking of. LESS guns.

2. Islam is not the bad guy - no more than all the (many more) acts of terrorism caused by atheists and Christians, for instance.

3. This is not about freedom of speech - this about war. It's about dead children (of whatever country or faith), in which we are all complicit. Take responsibility - it'll help.

4. Did it ever occur who profits from this?

 

Apologies if this seems harsh, and the mods may be like, 'Nooooo ho ho ho', but I've been nursing a rant about this for some time.

 

:S

 

Cheers!

 

Why who does profit from this ?

 

And please don't say that the USA is behind the rise of Islamic extremism so they can money from it

 

... tells me you are not paying attention or thinking things through all that much. Anyone with even smidgeon of knowledge of world politik should be able to theorize a number of folks and entities who could profit from this. It's actually pretty obvious at this point that some people are profiting from this (note this doesn't mean they actually perpetrated it).

Edited January 17, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Namutree]

3. This is not about freedom of speech - this about war. It's about dead children (of whatever country or faith), in which we are all complicit. Take responsibility - it'll help.

 

Actually it isn't about war. None of the killers were motivated by France's foreign policy. They were simply offended by the cartoon and decided that the penalty of offending them should be death. France could be the most peaceful country in all human history and the killers would have been the same. They still would have been offended, they still would have been Islamic radicals, and they still would have gunned down the satirists.

 

You know what will actually help? Addressing the issue rather than deflecting it by changing the subject. Freedom of speech was attacked the these radicals; NOT France's (or the west's if you prefer) foreign policy.

 

2. Islam is not the bad guy - no more than all the (many more) acts of terrorism caused by atheists and Christians, for instance.

 

At least this is true. Nearly all religions contain bat**** crazy nonsense that is extremely dangerous to society if acted upon. Islam is no exception.

[Valsuelm]

Val, you seem to be accusing me of generalizing all conspiracy theories, which is not my intention.  I am simply saying that your habit of generalizing most people as brainwashed undercuts your otherwise well stated arguments.  

 

Now conspiracy theories by their nature are the less than likely scenario.  In the classroom, I do a tremendous amount of cause and effect scenarios and I love to let my students come up with whatever possibilities they can.  I leave my personal opinions out of it.  As a history teacher, I actually see my personal beliefs as dangerous, for many of the reasons you have stated on here.  So this is a good place for me to be opinionated, it gives me an outlet away from the classroom.  

 

So I am going to look skeptically at most conspiracy theories.  If you would stop calling me brainwashed because of that I would appreciate it.  

 

Nothing wrong with being skeptical. I myself start skeptically looking at pretty much everything, when I begin looking at something. And I would agree you should generally do your best to not inflict your view point (whatever it is) upon your students. I don't know what era of history you teach, but whatever it is, I do hope you mention the dubious aspects of things like the incident that gave us the phrase 'Remember the Maine!', the Lusitania, or the Gulf of Tonkin incident, for those things that would be pertinent to the era of history you teach.

 

If you want to stop being lumped in with the brainwashees on this forum, please refrain from making comments like this:

 

We should have a conspiracy theorist scoring system.  Each conspiracy is rated and then you check off which ones you believe, and then you get a rating.  Moon landing, JFK, 9/11, and now Charlie Hebdo.

 

This adds nothing positive to the conversation, and legitimizes some of the even less positive things that are mentioned in this forum.

 

That said, of the four things you mention, one of them is definitely not as was told (and usually is told) to us in the mainstream media and by our government officials (most of them anyways). I'm as sure of that as I'm sure I have two legs, as the evidence is overwhelming. All four things however, are worth looking into a great deal, because even if at the end of the day you're not convinced there was a 'conspiracy' (for the record: I am not in regards to all four) you'll still learn a great deal that is not commonly known. And that's all I'll say on this as to say more really opens up a can of worms of sorts that has little to do with the subject at hand, and this forum is not very conducive for intelligent discussions on these subjects (in part due to comments like yours above).

[Namutree]

Please tell me you think it's JFK. I don't believe in any of those conspiracy theories, but that one is the most reasonable.