[392] Prio Issues for Obsidian to Fix

[IndiraLightfoot]

There are so many good threads and informative bug reports, where plenty of diligent people like Sensuki, Luckmann and PrimeJunta are spoiling us with good feedback that I reckon it would be a shame if the best of these just drowned in among posts of bickering, small talk and points of lesser urgency or importance.

 

Hence, this topic. Here you get to post your prio issues with the current PoE BB, and only those, so please try to refrain to include pet peeves like kill xp, no disengagement mechanics, and such - just post prio issues that's fixable until PoE's spring release.

 

Just off the top of my head, I'd like to include these ensuing issues:

-Fix the combat-only restriction, preferably so that when combat is initiated by the player, he or she should be able to use whatever skill as if "in combat". As it is now, you have to jog the pause function until combat begins for real. It would help the game flow and the feel of player control immensely.

-Add a greater combat readiness to all encounters. The ability to position your entire party around any soon-to-be-hostile encounter places them at a serious disadvantage.

-Make the ranger class a bit sexier. There are rumours of a cool dual-wielding saber build that's almost working,

and drop the shared health pool with their animal companion

-Having played 392, I must say that too many spell FX are still far too bright, stark and lingering. It's pretty much a mess. Please, tone it down.

-(Stolen straight off JFSOCC's great post): the small weapons should get a speed buff, and attack speed should be a much more significant factor in combat than it is now. I also think that perhaps conditionals that trigger on even a graze could make faster smaller weapons better, if you want to focus on not just dealing damage but also weakening your opponents. Just a thought. As someone who wants to play a rogue this way, I'm currently very tense to see if I get to player my character concept the way I want to.  [and see Sensuki's complimentary post on this issue just below! ]

Edited January 6, 2015 by IndiraLightfoot

[Sensuki]

Fast weapons actually attack very quickly (especially when dual-wielded) they just don't do very much damage. The weapon damage ranges need adjustment because vs any DT at all, faster weapons lose out.

 

Unless you are a Rogue or you are scoring crits, you'll be doing single digit damage with light weapons against armor. You can make all of that up with just a single 2H hit, which is most of the time, far more effective.

 

I think there's also a few bugs regarding 2W fighting, they seem to attack too quickly sometimes, even in armor.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Sensuki

[Luckmann]

Our developers who arth at Obsidian,

hallowed be thy name.

Your concepts come,

your games be done,

on our battlestations, as it is in your office.

 

Give us this day our daily nuggets,

and forgive us our bickering,

as we also have forgiven our fellow forumites.

And lead us not into contrived mechanics,

and deliver us from hairloss.

 

Please pay attention to the Discussion Forum,

even when we suck.

Amen.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Luckmann

[Namutree]

Make the game run smoothly.

The Ranger class needs an upgrade.

[Few]

Massive stability issues with the mac version still. Id put that up there on the priority list. 

 

Also I know its too late and blah blah blah nostalgia etc but the whole combat system needs to be scrapped totally. Replace it with turn based or make the combat more like DA:O. 

[Sensuki]

make the combat more like DA:O

 

 

More like, make it more like IWD:HoW  / BG2 / IWD2 (but that won't happen so we'll have to mod it).

Edited January 6, 2015 by Sensuki

[Few]

Id even be happy with them making the combat more like Age of Empires at this point  

[Sensuki]

Age of Empires combat is more similar to the Infinity Engine games than this is

 

Do you find the amount of micromanagement involved too much and the pace of combat too quick ?

If so, the slow button might offer you some respite.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Sensuki

[Few]

Im not sure what the biggest issue about the combat really is. It just feels.. messy? Sort of like  you don't really have much control over whats going on and for me it feels like I'm fighting against the games mechanics and ui than against the enemies.

 

Also I think there is some really bad spell bloat with the priest compared to other classes.

 

also I really think they should have got rid of the per rest uses for spells. They should use cooldowns instead. I mean having to rest to get spells back for major encounters is severely immersion breaking. Stopping and waiting 6 hours or whatever it is and the whole world just stops what its doing to wait for you. It was my most hated part of the BG games and its such a shame they carried it over into this. 

[GordonHalfman]

also I really think they should have got rid of the per rest uses for spells. They should use cooldowns instead.

 

       

[Sensuki]

Haha, the backers at large (myself included) really did not want to see cooldowns in this game, because that doesn't feel very D&D or Infinity Engine.

 

I myself am an DotA 2 player. DotA 2 has cooldowns. I enjoy cooldown-based gameplay. But I didn't want to see it in this game, because I backed this game because I want to have an Infinity Engine experience again.

 

I do agree with you about combat messiness. There are also several AI bugs with party members that cause them to not do what you told them to do as well. The messiness is a combination of a fairly large list of factors, you're correct that it's not really any single thing, it's a lot of things together.

I think many people would disagree with you about having to rest to get spells back immersion breaking, because that's what happens in a lot of RPGs (especially Pen & Paper RPGs). Modern RPGs have edged more towards cooldowns, but also many modern RPGs don't include resting.

I think the use of per-encounter abilities makes per-rest abilities not really worth it, if you're given a choice between a per-encounter or a 3xrest ability. That makes it very hard to balance classes and abilities in general.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Sensuki just posted a nice thread about why the Druid shapeshift forms are far under par, and I reckon it's indeed a prio to fix it for PoE before release, so I'll add the link to his OP here:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69941-druid-spiritshift-is-really-bad-and-needs-to-be-improved/

[Razsius]

Im not sure what the biggest issue about the combat really is. It just feels.. messy? Sort of like  you don't really have much control over whats going on and for me it feels like I'm fighting against the games mechanics and ui than against the enemies.

 

Also I think there is some really bad spell bloat with the priest compared to other classes.

 

also I really think they should have got rid of the per rest uses for spells. They should use cooldowns instead. I mean having to rest to get spells back for major encounters is severely immersion breaking. Stopping and waiting 6 hours or whatever it is and the whole world just stops what its doing to wait for you. It was my most hated part of the BG games and its such a shame they carried it over into this. 

 

That's because this game from the top down is basically designed to limit as much player agency as humanly possible while still being called a "game".  It's easy for every design decision you see to simple ask "Will this limit me as a player?" and I guarantee your answer will almost always be a resounding "yes" whenever it comes to the design decisions Josh has made for this game.  Take for example prebuffing, there's more than one way to limit and/or "improve" it than flat out not allowing a player to cast said buffs till combat starts.  Anything from having short duration buffs to having buffs that degrade over time.  Engagement, attack resolution and even armor mechanics all also suffer from such limitations.  Damn near every single facet has this new (or maybe not so new... I dunno) breed of design exacting hellbent control how you play your game.  I'd say this directly flies in the face of everything the IE games actually stood for.

 

It's why Mr. M felt that the magic system in the game doesn't feel like "magic".

 

It's why Sen complains about wildly swingy damage variance on weapons and spells.

 

It's why a good chunk of players utterly loathe the engagement system.

 

...

 

Though i'm not sure everyone understands why this sort of design would be bad... and that does indeed make me a little sad.

[TrueMenace]

I would like if the Devs acknowledge if they are actually listening to our suggestions by communicating to us on the forums...

[Namutree]

 

also I really think they should have got rid of the per rest uses for spells. They should use cooldowns instead. 

[Kjaamor]

Good concept for a thread.

 

Alas...

[Luridis]

I'd rather have them make the game they want to make and hopefully accept our input on what we find not so great. But, you can't sit here and tell them how to prioritize their work, that's nutty. They're probably 2 builds ahead of beta and they're working on more than stuff you can see. There's a good chance they're still working on content to some degree, or at least getting it into the game and/or debugging it.

 

So, in other words...

 

http://youtu.be/GqAUwGEJgLM

[IndiraLightfoot]

I'd rather have them make the game they want to make and hopefully accept our input on what we find not so great. But, you can't sit here and tell them how to prioritize their work, that's nutty.

Heh! Funny, that! :D

 

Regardless, this is exactly what we are doing here, on their own backer beta forums. I'm pretty sure they don't want it any other way, and since they have considered plenty of posts over the years on PoE and implemented suggestions and such, I guess that would make the Obsids nutty too. All this talk about "nutty" reminds me that I've had far too many nuts over X-mas, btw.

[Luridis]

 

I'd rather have them make the game they want to make and hopefully accept our input on what we find not so great. But, you can't sit here and tell them how to prioritize their work, that's nutty.

Heh! Funny, that! :D

 

Regardless, this is exactly what we are doing here, on their own backer beta forums. I'm pretty sure they don't want it any other way, and since they have considered plenty of posts over the years on PoE and implemented suggestions and such, I guess that would make the Obsids nutty too. All this talk about "nutty" reminds me that I've had far too many nuts over X-mas, btw.

 

 

I used nutty to avoid the more obvious "rude". Not nice when someone comes to your work and tells you how to run your own schedule. There's a difference between input, which they do see, I've seen them sit in a thread for hours, and armchair quarterbacking their job.

[Starwars]

I think more work is still needed on the visual side of things, there is still a ways to go in the visual clarity side of things. That's still my number one problem.

 

Other than that, I hope they'll keep offending the self-proclaimed IE die-hards.

 

[Few]

I think more work is still needed on the visual side of things, there is still a ways to go in the visual clarity side of things. That's still my number one problem.

 

Other than that, I hope they'll keep offending the self-proclaimed IE die-hards.

 

 

 

Yeah I think thats one of the biggest things really. If perhaps the little bar over the characters heads was bigger and less see through it would make things seem less messy. Perhaps also have a window showing your characters portrait and the enemy they are targeting with the enemy health, the current action being taken on them etc....

 

Also wow I didn't realise people liked the whole rest thing so much ^^ In that case I think that should stay then :D (personal I still hate it ) 

[Quadrone]

 

I think more work is still needed on the visual side of things, there is still a ways to go in the visual clarity side of things. That's still my number one problem.

 

Other than that, I hope they'll keep offending the self-proclaimed IE die-hards.

 

 

 

Yeah I think thats one of the biggest things really. If perhaps the little bar over the characters heads was bigger and less see through it would make things seem less messy. Perhaps also have a window showing your characters portrait and the enemy they are targeting with the enemy health, the current action being taken on them etc....

 

 

 

You just keep on digging...

[Few]

 

You just keep on digging...

 

 

 

Why? Is having clarity not cool?

[Rumsteak]

Hence, this topic. Here you get to post your prio issues with the current PoE BB, and only those, so please try to refrain to include pet peeves like kill xp, no disengagement mechanics, and such

 

... guys?

Edited January 6, 2015 by Rumsteak

[wanderon]

 

Hence, this topic. Here you get to post your prio issues with the current PoE BB, and only those, so please try to refrain to include pet peeves like kill xp, no disengagement mechanics, and such

 

... guys?

 

And then the world stood still...