Kickstarter in-game item / Pre-order in-game items

[Luckmann]

As per the topic, are these the same thing?

Because I can't find any information about what the Kickstarter in-game item is.

I'm very much "Gotta catch 'em all" when it comes to games and I always want the "full" game experience without things cut out. There's nothing I hate more than when a game starts screwing me over, making it impossible for me to acquire items because I missed some real-life event or couldn't fly half across the world, couldn't buy four different pre-order versions of the game or this and that. Ultimately, it doesn't incentivize participation, it promotes exclusion and fuels piracy out of necessity.

I was unable to participate in the Kickstarter, but now I'm looking at actually pre-ordering when I may have some cash over, and I just thought I'd check. If I pre-order now, do I get the whole thing, or do I get shafted on the bling?

 

And if the pre-order in-game items and the Kickstarter in-game item are not the same, then what's the Kickstarter item going to be? I've been out of the loop for quite some time, so I apologize if this is something that's otherwise considered ubiquitous knowledge.

Just thought I'd ask.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Luckmann

[Lephys]

Ultimately, it doesn't incentivize participation, it promotes exclusion and fuels piracy out of necessity.

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? As the sheer existence of video games isn't even a necessity, much less the possession of them.

[rjshae]

A free potion for Kickstarter participants promotes piracy?

 

Does everybody have to employ hyperbole these days just to make a trivial point?

[Snoozer]

Would you like my Kickstarter icon on the forums? Because with that you're missing out on the full Pillars of Eternity experience!

 

Obsidian has been smart about their pre-order giveaways as there are no quests/characters blocked off behind a pay wall. Even high paying kickstarter backers (not me) receive the same electronic "boosts" as you and I do. Namely, if you pre-order (checking GOG) the champion pack, you get a pet and an item. Preordering the Hero edition, same thing. PoE on Steam? Ibid. Quick, call the internet pirates, unfair! Champion edition provides you with the soundtrack among other things; unless you are a fetishist for every scrap of promotional artwork and junk, you might have wanted to kickstart back in the day for 1k...or not.

 

In conclusion, you are getting "the full experience". There is nothing within the game that has been parceled and distributed as pre order incentives (that I have seen). I, too, hate it when publishers divvy up content and sell it as DLC or pre-order incentive. There is none of that here.

[Luckmann]

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? As the sheer existence of video games isn't even a necessity, much less the possession of them.

Even so, a lot of people, if they want to play something, they want the full monty. Faced with the choice of buying an inferior product or pirating a superior one, they are going to go with the better option.

 

A free potion for Kickstarter participants promotes piracy?

 

Does everybody have to employ hyperbole these days just to make a trivial point?

It's not hyperbole, nor is it intended as a trivial point. It might be trivial to you, especially since you are already a backer, I understand that it's hard to empathize. I would not say that it promotes piracy, but unwittingly incentivizes it. Look at any (non-online-only) game with a large amount of exclusivist (not sure if that's a word) content and you'll also see a lot of people that ends up pirating it because they can't get everything they want in the legal copy, even if they wanted to.

 

Borderlands 2 is a great example of this, filled with exclusive skins and nuggets that you can only get if you went to Event X or participated in the 2013-something Y. So either you live with a neutered version, pirate only the additional content you are locked out of (and thus invalidate your legal copy regardless) or you pirate it straight up from top to bottom. Mass Effect 2 is (was?) another great example.

 

I'm not endorsing piracy in any way, I'm merely underlining a point that was brought up in relation to the topic.

 

Would you like my Kickstarter icon on the forums? Because with that you're missing out on the full Pillars of Eternity experience!

 

Obsidian has been smart about their pre-order giveaways as there are no quests/characters blocked off behind a pay wall. Even high paying kickstarter backers (not me) receive the same electronic "boosts" as you and I do. Namely, if you pre-order (checking GOG) the champion pack, you get a pet and an item. Preordering the Hero edition, same thing. PoE on Steam? Ibid. Quick, call the internet pirates, unfair! Champion edition provides you with the soundtrack among other things; unless you are a fetishist for every scrap of promotional artwork and junk, you might have wanted to kickstart back in the day for 1k...or not.

 

In conclusion, you are getting "the full experience". There is nothing within the game that has been parceled and distributed as pre order incentives (that I have seen). I, too, hate it when publishers divvy up content and sell it as DLC or pre-order incentive. There is none of that here.

 

Nah, I can live without the Kickstarter icon and anything outside of the game, as long as I can still get the full game. All those extra things I think are perfectly fine, as long as it doesn't touch upon the content of the game itself, and I just wanted to make sure that I'm not missing out, because back when the Kickstarter was going on, it was referred to as a Kickstarter Exclusive.

 

I had a hunch that the Kickstarter Exclusive In-Game Item was the same as the Pre-Order stuff (the Giant Miniature Space Piglet and the Pledge of Gaun Ring) and I had the general feeling that Obsidian had made the right calls on most things like this, but I just wanted to make sure before I actually pre-order, and I couldn't find anything specific about it anywhere.

 

I still feel that Pre-Order exclusives like this is a bad idea, but if I pre-order myself, at least it won't be an issue for me personally.

 

Thanks a lot.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Luckmann

[Lephys]

Even so, a lot of people, if they want to play something, they want the full monty. Faced with the choice of buying an inferior product or pirating a superior one, they are going to go with the better option.

That doesn't make any sense. Why is "pirate the inferior product" not a choice?

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that, matter-of-factly speaking, piracy is based on incentives. But, generally, they're "I want something for nothing." No one's like "Awww, man, I'm all about integrity here, so I buy everything. But, it turns out I can't get a pet mecha-dragon in this game without going back in time and being a Kickstarter backer, or buying that $2 add-on in the store. COMPULSION TO PIRATE, RISING! *berzerk*

 

Besides... when you're talking about tiny exclusive tidbits, why wouldn't "hack/mod that in" be the considered option here? In what way does piracy solve the problem of your missing out on some little exclusive add-on to a game?

[Luckmann]

 

Even so, a lot of people, if they want to play something, they want the full monty. Faced with the choice of buying an inferior product or pirating a superior one, they are going to go with the better option.

That doesn't make any sense. Why is "pirate the inferior product" not a choice?

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that, matter-of-factly speaking, piracy is based on incentives. But, generally, they're "I want something for nothing." No one's like "Awww, man, I'm all about integrity here, so I buy everything. But, it turns out I can't get a pet mecha-dragon in this game without going back in time and being a Kickstarter backer, or buying that $2 add-on in the store. COMPULSION TO PIRATE, RISING! *berzerk*

 

Besides... when you're talking about tiny exclusive tidbits, why wouldn't "hack/mod that in" be the considered option here? In what way does piracy solve the problem of your missing out on some little exclusive add-on to a game?

 

That's.. actually exactly kinda how a lot are, except for the hyperbolic sarcasm - also, I'm talking specifically about things that can no longer be acquired, so the "...or buying that $2 add-on in the store" does not apply to the argument. But in a nutshell, that's pretty much it. A lot of people just want the full game; they'd prefer to buy it, but if they can't or the cost is utterly unreasonable (such as buying multiple copies of the game for multiple pre-order bonuses, or an extensive laundry-list of piecemeal DLC), they will resort to piracy if necessary.

 

And obviously, hacking/modding that in is definitely considered an option, but in a lot of cases, that is considered just as bad as pirating it outright, or result in incompatibilities. Nevermind that there isn't always the possibility to even do that without violating copyright laws; I remember a DA:O mod that aimed to do exactly that, but it didn't actually add the Pre-Order exclusives, because those had to be downloaded, it just mimicked the effects.

 

Piracy solves it because you get all the content of the game, no ifs or buts or nos. And that's not the way it should be. And as Snoozer clarified, it's not the way it is with Pillars of Eternity. :3

[Katarack21]

I don't think you're right. In my backer portal, the "What does this include?" tab specifically states "Kickstarter only in-game achievement and item" on the list.

Meanwhile, over in the pre-order page, it says "Already a backer? You get the pre-order bonus items for free!". It calls them pre-order bonus items. That's not the same thing as what the backers get, at least I don't think so.

I don't know what the Kickstarter-only in-game achievement and item will be. I hope it's cool.

[Luckmann]

I don't think you're right. In my backer portal, the "What does this include?" tab specifically states "Kickstarter only in-game achievement and item" on the list.

 

Meanwhile, over in the pre-order page, it says "Already a backer? You get the pre-order bonus items for free!". It calls them pre-order bonus items. That's not the same thing as what the backers get, at least I don't think so.

 

I don't know what the Kickstarter-only in-game achievement and item will be. I hope it's cool.

 

Hmm.. I was just going of of what Snoozer said, but based on what you're saying, I better just hold off pre-ordering, then. I hope that Obsidian clarifies this before it's too late, I'd hate to miss out on pre-ordering and then find out that the Kickstarter In-Game item and the Pre-Order items were the same all along after all.

[Hassat Hunter]

A free potion for Kickstarter participants promotes piracy?

Pirates aren't exactly digging deep to "justify" their actions... all to masquerade the real thruth... they just dont want to pay for someone else's hard work. Any excuse made otherwise is just that, an excuse.

 

If it's not this kickstarter thing it will be something else, always an 'excuse'...

[Guest Matt Sheets]

The Kickstarter item is not the same as the pre-order items.

 

We haven't revealed the Kickstarter item as of yet.

[Luckmann]

The Kickstarter item is not the same as the pre-order items.

 

We haven't revealed the Kickstarter item as of yet.

Well dang, I guess that's that, then.

[Snoozer]

Sorry for the misinformation Luckmann.

[rjshae]

 

A free potion for Kickstarter participants promotes piracy?

Pirates aren't exactly digging deep to "justify" their actions... all to masquerade the real thruth... they just dont want to pay for someone else's hard work. Any excuse made otherwise is just that, an excuse.

 

If it's not this kickstarter thing it will be something else, always an 'excuse'...

 

Right, but it's not "promoting" piracy, any more than any other add-on component. The argument I read goes like this: there's an exclusive item only available to some buyers; ergo this promotes piracy; hence there should be no exclusive items. It's nonsense.

[Kjaamor]

I read the OP's post and got a massive sense of Deja Vu. Has the OP asked about this before?

 

Personally, my grand thoughts on the topic this time are the same as they were last time.

 

'Whatever.'

[Luckmann]

 

 

A free potion for Kickstarter participants promotes piracy?

Pirates aren't exactly digging deep to "justify" their actions... all to masquerade the real thruth... they just dont want to pay for someone else's hard work. Any excuse made otherwise is just that, an excuse.

 

If it's not this kickstarter thing it will be something else, always an 'excuse'...

 

Right, but it's not "promoting" piracy, any more than any other add-on component. The argument I read goes like this: there's an exclusive item only available to some buyers; ergo this promotes piracy; hence there should be no exclusive items. It's nonsense.

 

 

/shrug

 

If that's what you think, I'm certainly not going to change your mind. The fact remain that it's true for a great many.

 

 

I read the OP's post and got a massive sense of Deja Vu. Has the OP asked about this before?

 

Personally, my grand thoughts on the topic this time are the same as they were last time.

 

'Whatever.'

 

I don't think so. I haven't been active on the boards for years. If it's been discussed before, I apologize, I tried to do a search for it across the web and couldn't find any confirmation on it - or any information whatsoever as to the nature of the in-game exclusives. I get the feeling that they're keeping it on the down-low to not turn people away. I think most people pre-ordering the game think they're getting the full game.

 

 

Sorry for the misinformation Luckmann.

 

No worries, it was a reasonable assumption.

[Katarack21]

 

A free potion for Kickstarter participants promotes piracy?

Pirates aren't exactly digging deep to "justify" their actions... all to masquerade the real thruth... they just dont want to pay for someone else's hard work. Any excuse made otherwise is just that, an excuse.

 

If it's not this kickstarter thing it will be something else, always an 'excuse'...

 

Actually, that's not true. There's a *direct* correlation between money and piracy. Rich people don't pirate nearly as much as poor people. The fact is, a large proportion of pirates are only committing piracy because they can't afford to buy the object they want.

 

There's a difference between not *wanting* to pay and being truly unable to.

[middydj]

"Ultimately, it doesn't incentivize participation, it promotes exclusion and fuels piracy out of necessity."

 

You must know a lot  of pirates or be  up on the data on piracy. Many times I don't get exclusives you speak of and I WON'T pirate a game. I just buy the game.

Thats life in general. You will be excluded from many things as you grow older. Its how you deal with it which is what matters..

[Nakia]

Some people who cannot afford the game may turn to piracy but not all.  I am on a fixed income and have to make my game choices carefully and I have not ever pirated a game.  I know quite a few other people in the same situation and they do not pirate games.  They buy what they can, wait for sales, or sacrifice something else to buy a game.  Those who pirate games are actually pushing the price of games up for those of us who prefer integrity and believe the laborer is worthy of his hire.

 

As for the Kickstarter items those are thank you gifts from Osidian because we believed in them and took the risk of pledging to them in the hope of getting a game we really wanted to play.  If someone feels that it is wrong that is their opinion and if they wish to wait to buy the game that is their choice.

 

The bottom line is that the game exists because 77,000 people believed in Obsidian.

[Lephys]

That's.. actually exactly kinda how a lot are, except for the hyperbolic sarcasm - also, I'm talking specifically about things that can no longer be acquired, so the "...or buying that $2 add-on in the store" does not apply to the argument.

It wasn't sarcasm (it was simply an example of a mindset I'd argue no reasonable person has), for the record.

 

And I realize that you're talking about things that were one-time exclusives, or whatever phrase you'd like to use to describe things that could've been gotten but no longer can (or... no longer "may," I guess, so we cut out any technicalities). The reason I referenced $2 add-ons is... they're typically not an entirely different game. It's some small component that's a fraction of what constitutes an entire game package. Therefore, the thought process "Since if I bought the game, I wouldn't get that small, extra thing, I'm going to steal the game" is like saying "Well, since they don't sell that car with that color paint anymore, I'm going to steal someone's car."

 

Not being able to get that one (or handful of) tiny extras in no way justifies the stealing of the entire product. Now, if you somehow figure out a way to hack/mod in those extras, then more power to you, I say. But how does that make it in any way reasonable to not-buy the game that you were going to buy anyway? Even if you got the version with the extras you wanted, you weren't going to get the game for free, and just pay for the extras.

 

Methinks you missed the part, in what you highlighted in red, where I said they aren't all about integrity AND make that decision. Someone who decides something like that doesn't have any integrity.

 

And I don't doubt that's how some people are (wanting to pirate with the excuse that they can't get some extras for purchase anymore), but you're attributing that directly to the availability of some extras. That's like saying "If you jewelers wouldn't make valuables, you wouldn't be promoting thievery." Like people were just fine with not-stealing, until you went and nudged them toward stealing.

[Katarack21]

Some people who cannot afford the game may turn to piracy but not all.  I am on a fixed income and have to make my game choices carefully and I have not ever pirated a game.  I know quite a few other people in the same situation and they do not pirate games.  They buy what they can, wait for sales, or sacrifice something else to buy a game.  Those who pirate games are actually pushing the price of games up for those of us who prefer integrity and believe the laborer is worthy of his hire.

 

As for the Kickstarter items those are thank you gifts from Osidian because we believed in them and took the risk of pledging to them in the hope of getting a game we really wanted to play.  If someone feels that it is wrong that is their opinion and if they wish to wait to buy the game that is their choice.

 

The bottom line is that the game exists because 77,000 people believed in Obsidian.

Have you ever had to choose between a video game and food? Have you had to choose between a video game and medical appointments? These aren't conscious decisions people make, mind you. It's not "I can spend this 50 bucks on food or video games...food it is, I'll pirate the game."

 

It's "I spent every single dollar I have within the first 8 days of the month on necessities such as food, rent, and medicine and now I have no money left of any sort, disposable or otherwise. Not one single penny. I am still going to play a video game and watch a movie at some point during this month."

 

I'm not morally justifying this, I'm simply explaining the logic that goes on here. You talk about "buying what you can", "buying games carefully" and "sacrificing for what you want". This indicates a fundamental lack of understanding of what I'm talking about. You are still going on the idea of people who have some degree of disposable income. I'm not talking about that.

 

I'm talking about a reasonable proportion of pirating individuals who are simply pirating games that they are incapable of playing otherwise. It's a common argument in the pirating community that the "costs" of pirating to companies are inflated because they are counting "lost profits" from many individuals who *would not be purchasing the products regardless*.

 

Another example to provide: I have a friend who I shall call Bob. Bob is a huge Star Trek fan. He's extremely poor because he is incapable of finding employment while taking care of his sick, dying grandmother (although she has been sick and dying for nearly a decade now). He has a Star Trek book collection (gifts), Star Trek T-shirts and Christmas Ornaments (also gifts), etc.

 

Long ago, in the days long long *LONG* before Netflix added Star Trek, this guy pirated and burned off all of Star Trek available at the time. ALL of it. All three seasons of TOS, and all seven seasons each of TNG, DS9 and Voyager, and all the movies, and all the animated series. Enterprise was not out at the time.

 

He spent a freaking ridiculous amount of time and effort doing this, and it was not free (he paid for the DVD's he burned it to). It was days of downloading, days of converting to a format playable on the plain DVD players of the time period, and hours and hours of burning. He didn't do all this to stick it to Paramount, and he didn't do all this just to get a free DVD collection. He would have *GLADLY* spent all the hundreds and hundreds of dollars to own the actual DVD's, with all the special features and such. That collection would have been his *baby*. Do you understand what I mean? He would blow all that money on Star Trek, probably to his own detriment, if he had it to blow. He didn't. So he pirated like mad.

 

This happens. It's by no means everybody, but it's fairly common in my personal experience.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Katarack21

[Bryy]

As per the topic, are these the same thing?

 

Because I can't find any information about what the Kickstarter in-game item is.

 

I'm very much "Gotta catch 'em all" when it comes to games and I always want the "full" game experience without things cut out. There's nothing I hate more than when a game starts screwing me over, making it impossible for me to acquire items because I missed some real-life event or couldn't fly half across the world, couldn't buy four different pre-order versions of the game or this and that. Ultimately, it doesn't incentivize participation, it promotes exclusion and fuels piracy out of necessity.

 

I was unable to participate in the Kickstarter, but now I'm looking at actually pre-ordering when I may have some cash over, and I just thought I'd check. If I pre-order now, do I get the whole thing, or do I get shafted on the bling?

 

And if the pre-order in-game items and the Kickstarter in-game item are not the same, then what's the Kickstarter item going to be? I've been out of the loop for quite some time, so I apologize if this is something that's otherwise considered ubiquitous knowledge.

 

Just thought I'd ask.

Everything you just said is ridiculous and harmful to the industry. You want less DRM? Shed this BS "if I don't see Shepard breathe for a half second after the credits it's not the full gaaaaaaaaaaaaame" attitude. I'm sick of hearing about how people are being "forced" to buy 5 copies of the game.

 

1) Yes it is the full game. Just because other outlets have incentives doesn't mean they are essential. In fact, it means the opposite.

2) You are the only one that thinks it is neccesary to pirate.

[Luckmann]

 

As per the topic, are these the same thing?

 

Because I can't find any information about what the Kickstarter in-game item is.

 

I'm very much "Gotta catch 'em all" when it comes to games and I always want the "full" game experience without things cut out. There's nothing I hate more than when a game starts screwing me over, making it impossible for me to acquire items because I missed some real-life event or couldn't fly half across the world, couldn't buy four different pre-order versions of the game or this and that. Ultimately, it doesn't incentivize participation, it promotes exclusion and fuels piracy out of necessity.

 

I was unable to participate in the Kickstarter, but now I'm looking at actually pre-ordering when I may have some cash over, and I just thought I'd check. If I pre-order now, do I get the whole thing, or do I get shafted on the bling?

 

And if the pre-order in-game items and the Kickstarter in-game item are not the same, then what's the Kickstarter item going to be? I've been out of the loop for quite some time, so I apologize if this is something that's otherwise considered ubiquitous knowledge.

 

Just thought I'd ask.

Everything you just said is ridiculous and harmful to the industry. You want less DRM? Shed this BS "if I don't see Shepard breathe for a half second after the credits it's not the full gaaaaaaaaaaaaame" attitude. I'm sick of hearing about how people are being "forced" to buy 5 copies of the game.

 

1) Yes it is the full game. Just because other outlets have incentives doesn't mean they are essential. In fact, it means the opposite.

2) You are the only one that thinks it is neccesary to pirate.

 

 

I didn't know you defined what parts of a game was considered essential or not. I apologize.

 

And I never said it's necessary to pirate. It may be, if you want the full game, but I in no way endorse piracy as such - it may seem like it, because some latched on to my mention of the fact that piecemeal chop-up of games helps fuel piracy due to aforementioned reasons, but that was never my intent, nor was my intent to spark a lengthy and futile argument regarding the nature and morality of piracy.

 

For all we know, there'll be perfectly legal ways to acquire the various scattered parts - but it might also not be. Part of the problem is that we have no clue whether this problem can be solved without piracy or not, which makes the discussion academic at best, and as for me personally, I'm not going to buy the game (or pre-order it) before I know whether I'll be able to get the full thing or not.

 

If I knew for sure, I would've pre-ordered two days ago.

[Bryy]

Sorry, you don't get to hide behind "I don't condone it" when you write bull**** like these two gems.

And I never said it's necessary to pirate. It may be, if you want the full game

 

"Ultimately, it doesn't incentivize participation, it promotes exclusion and fuels piracy out of necessity."

[Luckmann]

Sorry, you don't get to hide behind "I don't condone it" when you write bull**** like these two gems.

And I never said it's necessary to pirate. It may be, if you want the full game

 

"Ultimately, it doesn't incentivize participation, it promotes exclusion and fuels piracy out of necessity."[/size]

 

Are you daft? Since when is understanding piracy the same thing as condoning it? It's like saying understanding the mechanisms of debt slavery implies supporting it.

 

X leads to Y and therefore Y is good? What kind of backwards logic is that?

 

Again, though, the intent of the thread was not to spark a lengthy and futile debate regarding the nature and morality of piracy. To avoid further confusion on your part, since I think I can't really make myself any more clear than I have on the subject (straight-out saying it in cleartext) and the topic itself has been settled, I propose it be locked before people intent on sparking needless debate and mistakenly assigning blame through (frankly odd) over-interpretation can pull it further off track.

 

It would be nice to keep it open in case other people show up with the same (or similar) question(s), but at this point, I think it's a bit hard to keep it productive with the tone taken by some.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Luckmann