How Should Obsidian Market Pillars of Eternity

[Sheikh]

I took a deep breathe and thought a bit what I was going to write, instead of just emotionally crying out my first impulse.

This topic title is written on some first emotional impulse (that is horrible) and dealing with it does not deserve anything better.

 

Meaning that is what the topic is about. The topic and what it is about is the OPs decision, not yours. Meaning if the OP decides this topic is about being codependent with Obsidian (which it is), then it is. That is because when it comes to marketing this game, there is simply nothing to discuss without codependency being present. In fact not only is the OP having a codependent affair with Obsidian by thinking that Obsidian cant market the game without his thoughts about the subject, but you are having a codependent affair with him by thinking that the OP cant decide on what a topic is about without you suppressing your emotions and "helping" him along on that. You are both dead wrong.

 

And additionally, you Osvir think I am incapable of thinking and expressing my thoughts in a refined fashion without you letting me know when I am not doing it. I mean this is just unbelievable.

 

This sort of codependency is not going to get you anywhere good, ever.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Sheikh

[ManifestedISO]

mmm, no, not quaaludes ... xanax dusted with PCP

[ISC]

This topic title is written on some first emotional impulse (that is horrible) and dealing with it does not deserve anything better.

 

Meaning that is what the topic is about. The topic and what it is about is the OPs decision, not yours. Meaning if the OP decides this topic is about being codependent with Obsidian (which it is), then it is. That is because when it comes to marketing this game, there is simply nothing to discuss without codependency being present. In fact not only is the OP having a codependent affair with Obsidian by thinking that Obsidian cant market the game without his thoughts about the subject, but you are having a codependent affair with him by thinking that the OP cant decide on what a topic is about without you suppressing your emotions and "helping" him along on that. You are both dead wrong.

 

And additionally, you Osvir think I am incapable of thinking and expressing my thoughts in a refined fashion without you letting me know when I am not doing it. I mean this is just unbelievable.

 

This sort of codependency is not going to get you anywhere good, ever.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

A: No one has said that Obsidian cant market the game without his thoughts about the subject.

B: No one has said that the OP cant decide on what a topic is about without him/her suppressing hist/her emotions and "helping" him along on that.

C: And no one is claiming that you are incapable of thinking and expressing your thoughts in a refined fashion without him/her letting you know when you are not doing it.

 

Also, this sort of obsession with the term codependency is not going to get you anywhere good, ever.

[Sheikh]

Yeah, the OP is.

[anameforobsidian]

They should market it with bloodspray everywhere and Marilyn Manson.

[Bryy]

They should market it with bloodspray everywhere and Marilyn Manson.

No.

 

Dragula.

[Katarack21]

They should market it with bloodspray everywhere and Marilyn Manson.

Chrome and fire. Copious amounts of both. Have a Fire Godlike, glowing, holding fire weapons and doing some crazy Cipher attacks in a sweet CGI cut scene.

 

 

No.

 

Dragula.

 

Set it to this. Or Super Beast.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Katarack21

[Stun]

How do we think Pillars of Eternity can best market the game?

"when you left-click, something awesome happens!"

[Bryy]

 

How do we think Pillars of Eternity can best market the game?

"when you left-click, something awesome happens!"

 

Contrary to popular belief, this is sound game design.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Bryy

[Elerond]

 

All these ehtics. Lets be a little pragmatic here, the more profit Obsidian makes the greater the chance that we get more similar games in the future.

Not the profit, the sales. If it sells much, we'll have more games, sure.

The profit of this game is guaranteed because no money is spent by Obsidian in it.

 

 

Never said those other games were not expensive. Though, Blackguards was not crowd-funded (that means someone put their own money in it) and D:OS was partialy crowd-funded.

Anyway that was mostly a complain about this game's prize since it is 100% crowd funded, meaning OE paid 0 $ from their pockets to develop it and Paradox will gain money from the sells of a game they didn't also put a dime in. These for me are good enough reasons that the game should be of much lower price than 40$.

 

And to point something else out, selling a game so high when it cost you nothing, is unethical.

 

 

There is couple factors that you should take account:

 

Kickstarter pays development of the game, but not it's marketing and support, which are things that Paradox has to take account when they set price for the game

Obsidian has promised to make expansion for the game with profits that they get from selling it, so they actually produce at least decent amount of money.

Game's development has extended over the point of the time when Obsidian estimated that they run out KS funds, so they probably need to use some of their own money (or pre-sale money)  to finish the game.

Also Obsidian has hopes that they can develop Pillars of Eternity their own inner product that can be self reliant so that they don't need to go to publishers or crowd funding to pay next installments that they make in the series.

Paradox also plans to get retailers to sell physical copies of the game, which usually means that they can't sell digital copies in too low prices.

[Nakia]

I don't understand why people do not think that Obsidian did not put any money into PoE.  They have a studio that costs money to run, employees that need to be paid, legal fees, accounting fees, taxes, insurance all the costs that most businesses have.  Crowfunding made it possible for them to make the game but that does not mean that hey themselves have not invested money directly or indirectly into the game.

 

As Elerond has pointed out there are costs to promoting and selling the game.    The retail price is not exorbitant, I would place it as moderate, maybe high moderate but certainly not expensive.  Profits will go to making the expansion and future games.  We will all benefit if PoE sells well but it does need to make a profit for Obsidian.

[Katarack21]

The price seems perfectly reasonable to me. This is a big, complex game. What it lacks in graphical whizbang was instead spent on length, complexity, and gameplay design. Right now DA:I will run you fifty bucks in the store. Do you honestly think less time, effort, or skill went into PoE? This isn't an indie game by an unknown company. This is a major release by Obsidian. FO:NV sold 5,000,000 copies. KOTOR 2 sold 475,000 within the first month.

Some of that was because sequels based on popular licensed properties, but the developer is well-known in the gaming community, and recognized outside of it. The way the development was funded doesn't change the fact that Obsidian needs to generate enough profit to both keep paying the normal business costs (rent, employees, etc.) but also pay for the future development of other projects (including future projects based on this new IP). They don't want to KS all the time; they want to be a self-sustaining, profit-generating game development studio that produces quality games of their own devising without being held to publishers or large conglomerates whims.

Our investment allowed them to remain solvent while they focused on the production of a game that no publishers would let them make. In return, they promised us a free copy of this product once it was made, along with various other non-monetary rewards for our investment. The goal is to sell enough copies, to make enough profit, so that they can keep making games and running the company on their own terms.

[Lord Wafflebum]

As Elerond and Nakia pointed out, and has been discussed in other threads we have NO IDEA how OE is spending money. I would be shocked to find out that OE did NOT put any of their own money into this game- especially considering the extended development timetable.

 

That said, I doubt OE would have partnered up with Paradox if Paradox didn't have a solid marketing plan to pitch. Considering OE hasn't specified a release date I doubt we'll see any marketing until then. I'm still going to annoy my friends about buying the game tho. I want it to do well because I like what I've experienced in the beta and I suspect I'll want more.

 

I wouldn't consider that codependent either. That assumes OE is relying on me to sell the game for them. While I don't KNOW that OE and Paradox haven't had a meeting about the esteemed Lord Wafflebum selling their game for them I feel it's rather unlikely. 

[Shevek]

At 40 bucks, this game is a steal.

[Nakia]

 I know how Obsidium and Paradox should market this game.  Use  Shevek's playthroughs.  http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69644-bb-v364-playthrough/  Excellent work in my opinion.

[Stun]

I would be shocked to find out that OE did NOT put any of their own money into this game- especially considering the extended development timetable.

Yeah, I've been wondering about that. 6 months ago, one of the top people at Obsidian (either Feargus or Josh, I can't remember which) flat out said that the game will come out in winter of 2014 because 'that's when the money runs out' (their words). Now they're saying 2015.

 

Well? Did the money suddenly not run out? Or are they paying for it out of their own pockets?

Edited December 14, 2014 by Stun

[Bill Gates' Son]

I think $45 is a "bit" expensive.  At least, more so than you average indie game with a similar scale.  I think $40 is the sweet spot for this kind of game.  That's exactly what D:OS, WL2, Blackguards, and even AAA looking games like The Talos Principle cost.  I certainly hope the more expensive price doesn't hamper sales.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Bill Gates' Son

[Sheikh]

 

I would be shocked to find out that OE did NOT put any of their own money into this game- especially considering the extended development timetable.

Yeah, I've been wondering about that. 6 months ago, one of the top people at Obsidian (either Feargus or Josh, I can't remember which) flat out said that the game will come out in winter of 2014 because 'that's when the money runs out' (their words). Now they're saying 2015.

 

Well? Did the money suddenly not run out? Or are they paying for it out of their own pockets?

 

We dont know. Only Obsidian know.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Sheikh

[Shevek]

They need to get over the "Bug-sidian" rep they have built up. Even after South Park, which had minimal bugs really, they were still getting nailed for bugs in the press. So, let them tale the time they need. If they have to use their own funds a bit, it doesnt really matter; they will make that back easily. Ultimately, putting out a game with few bugs after having broken away from the publisher model will make a statement that they need to make.

[Snoozer]

Value for price will differ from person to person so trying to find commonality in that respect is moot. Obsidian could charge 10, 50, 90 or whatever amount and some will still say it's too expensive (or not enough, weirdly). The price is whatever the buyer is paying for the product. Marketing can be whatever Paradox imagines as the game in all likelihood will end up on sale or discount within half a year to a year.

 

They've got a sales target (e.g. 100k units sold in a week) for X price; they hit that, they are happy. Don't concern yourselves with price point or day to day minutia. They've got people for that.

[Hassat Hunter]

Starting by lowering the price of the game at least 20$.

This is an already paid game.  It's price is very high compared to other kickstarter projects.

Economics: It's a hard concept...

Doesn't matter what game I hear people about... people are all shocked and outraged over companies needing to make money (profit). It's not *that* hard is it? Or is it really that baffling to the ordinary person?

 

Infact, the risk of not making a profit is all the higher with Pillars of Eternity since many of the people they aim at already have their copy. If all they do is get even that's a VERY bad situation for Obsidian.

So no, "it's already paid for" doesn't mean they can give away their game, actually it makes it more vital to reach additional people to buy and make a profit.

 

Aaaaaaaaanyway, I think they should marketize it as the spiritual sequel to Baldur's Gate... did them well on Kickstarter after all, and it's the goal. And with the EE's of the BG's and soon IceWind Dale (where are you; Planescape Torment?) it's likely more people are familiar now with the game than 2 years ago!

[Bryy]

I always facepalm when people donate to KS campaigns but then ask "why do you guys need money?" .

 

It happened during the DFA financial stupidity, and it happened after they explained the DFA financial stupidity and why they had to break up Broken Age into two parts. They literally had one of the documentary episodes be ALL ABOUT the budget, and the VERY FIRST comment was asking them why money mattered.

[Yellow Rabbit]

Imo, some people just have wrong impression about Kickstarter being something completely different from traditional publisher-developer model. In fact KS is just another source of money to fund development, coming without directives and restrictions from people agree with the pitch, and therefore allowing devs more freedom. Nothing else changes. Need to sell finished product stays right where it was, it's part of the point in starting a project.

 

Besides, managing money is a tricky job. It's practically nature's decree that one always needs more money to make something than he estimated. Don't like to think about that.

 

On topic, I think in the end "word-by-mouth" will do (already does, in fact) far more fruitful job in promoting PoE than any ads. Ads won't hurt either, though, but that is something Paradox should be capable of without advising.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Yellow Rabbit

[Katarack21]

 

I would be shocked to find out that OE did NOT put any of their own money into this game- especially considering the extended development timetable.

Yeah, I've been wondering about that. 6 months ago, one of the top people at Obsidian (either Feargus or Josh, I can't remember which) flat out said that the game will come out in winter of 2014 because 'that's when the money runs out' (their words). Now they're saying 2015.

 

Well? Did the money suddenly not run out? Or are they paying for it out of their own pockets?

 

And then, suddenly pre-orders went on sale...

[Sensuki]

I wouldn't be surprised if the game is $45 partially because it got delayed. Part of paying for that time is likely the higher price for the game, meaning more return on release. Paradox's delay tax on the consumer

Edited December 15, 2014 by Sensuki