US tortures

[Valsuelm]

 

Because the West faces a brutal, intransigent  and unforgiving enemy in the form of Islamic Fundamentalism. And because so many  terrorist attacks have been foiled some of you guys forget what a threat they can be

 

 

 

 

We cannot say with absolute certainty that the advanced interrogation techniques did help prevent any attacks but we also can't say they didn't, so you are  looking for a hypothetical answer

 

I think you must know this ?

 

 

Cognitive Dissonance wheeee!

 

Also, there's a non Orwellian / non Culturally Marxist word for  "advanced interrogation techniques". It's the word: 'Torture'. It's seven syllables less, 24 characters shorter, and honest. You should start using it.

 

[Drowsy Emperor]

Terrorism isn't much of a threat. More people die in car accidents in a month than the sum of terrorist attacks in a western country in probably a decade. That would probably include the sum of the most pessimistic casualty outcomes of foiled plots as well.

 

It could be ended in a fortnight by leveling Riyadh and bringing the Gulf states to heel, who are its major, if not only sponsors.

 

Instead the US is fighting "terror" in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. Because the goat herders of afghanistan and two self centered autocrats were a threat to american national security.

 

Framing the discussion of this torture around terrorism is rubbish, because that's not what its about. Its about showing power: "if you annoy us we will kidnap you, stick you in a jail and rape you" outside of international law or court, and no one will know what happened to you. In fact, if these grisly details didn't leak, the whole endeavor of holding these people prisoner and torturing them (as opposed to just  shooting them and dumping them somewhere) would be utterly pointless.

[Hurlshort]

Speaking of which, I am ready for cars to start driving themselves on the freeways.  People are terrible at it.

[Rostere]

"It's cruel, it's useless, it's the CIA"

 

France getting ready to leave NATO?

 

You have got to say one thing about the CIA though - it's a great agency for doing horrendously stupid stuff that inevitably backlashes at you later. The entire aftermath of 9/11 has been one big failure on the part of the CIA. It seems as though their every move has been guided by the goal of making the US locked in an ever-worsening quagmire with the Muslim population of the world. Cui bono? Sure as hell not the US in any case.

[Gorgon]

Did someone post this already ?

 

http://digest.bps.org.uk/2014/12/rapport-building-interrogation-is-more.html

[Drowsy Emperor]

"It's cruel, it's useless, it's the CIA"

 

France getting ready to leave NATO?

 

You have got to say one thing about the CIA though - it's a great agency for doing horrendously stupid stuff that inevitably backlashes at you later. The entire aftermath of 9/11 has been one big failure on the part of the CIA. It seems as though their every move has been guided by the goal of making the US locked in an ever-worsening quagmire with the Muslim population of the world. Cui bono? Sure as hell not the US in any case.

 

The Le Pen news don't mean much unless she wins the elections. Which is probably possible for the first time around.

[Rostere]

 

"It's cruel, it's useless, it's the CIA"

 

France getting ready to leave NATO?

 

You have got to say one thing about the CIA though - it's a great agency for doing horrendously stupid stuff that inevitably backlashes at you later. The entire aftermath of 9/11 has been one big failure on the part of the CIA. It seems as though their every move has been guided by the goal of making the US locked in an ever-worsening quagmire with the Muslim population of the world. Cui bono? Sure as hell not the US in any case.

 

The Le Pen news don't mean much unless she wins the elections. Which is probably possible for the first time around.

 

It is nevertheless symptomatic of an increasing sentiment. It is sadly definitely possible that she wins the elections though.

[Gfted1]

Wait, its supposed to be a bad thing if France leaves NATO? They are just a roadblock to spreading our freedom.

[Malcador]

France has never really been cozy with NATO, I had thought.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

"It's cruel, it's useless, it's the CIA"

 

France getting ready to leave NATO?

 

You have got to say one thing about the CIA though - it's a great agency for doing horrendously stupid stuff that inevitably backlashes at you later. The entire aftermath of 9/11 has been one big failure on the part of the CIA. It seems as though their every move has been guided by the goal of making the US locked in an ever-worsening quagmire with the Muslim population of the world. Cui bono? Sure as hell not the US in any case.

 

The Le Pen news don't mean much unless she wins the elections. Which is probably possible for the first time around.

 

It is nevertheless symptomatic of an increasing sentiment. It is sadly definitely possible that she wins the elections though.

 

 

What's sad about her winning the elections? She's the only major independent politician in France. She's also the only one that has any idea how a respectable nation state should act in the international arena and has definite principles, unlike spineless characters such as Sarkozy/Hollande. 

 

All real parties of the right in the EU have been systematically demonized in european media, branded as "extreme right" and equalized with the Nazis even though they plainly do act like the traditional extreme right in any shape or form. Same with Le Pen. All because she's proposing a policy outside the dominion of Brussels and Washington.

 

Regardless, I have a feeling her bark is worse than her bite. She has not committed to getting France out of NATO if she wins, and likely won't. Politicians as a rule soften up their rhetoric the moment they come into power, so I don't expect much from her.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Drowsy Emperor

[Valsuelm]

France has about as much a chance of leaving NATO in the next decade as the U.S. does. whether Le Pen is elected or not. Both nations certainly should leave as they'd both be better off, but both nations aren't run by people who have the best interest of those nations at heart or in mind.

 

The sad truth likely is that France will leave NATO the day that NATO is dissolved and something new,  like it, and very probably more evil replaces it.

[Zoraptor]

To many practical purposes France left NATO once already, in 1966 under De Gaulle. Retained political integration but removed its military, indeed its military was only reintegrated by Nick the Hungarian in, iirc, 2009.

[Valsuelm]

De Gaulle's action in '66 was little to nothing more than political posturing, like so many other things he did. France never left NATO.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I just researched that event a bit and it does seem like De Gaulle's big "no" wasn't as big as previously thought. Ah well, live and learn

 

 

 

France never left the overarching North Atlantic Alliance, however, and within a year the practical effect of withdrawing from the integrated command was also watered down. A secret accord between U.S. and French officials, the Lemnitzer-Aillert Agreements, laid out in great detail how French forces would dovetail back into NATO's command structure should East-West hostilities break out.

[Volourn]

"Terrorism isn't much of a threat. More people die in car accidents in a month than the sum of terrorist attacks in a western country in probably a decade."

 

Dumb article is dumb.

 

P.S. As for torture, as a rule it's evil and garabge. Most people who swear by it get a perverse pleasure out of it.  The sickos who do it are usually wackos. Of course, every rule has exceptions. A lot of torture described in this article, however, just seem like the type that's done simply to get  giggles at hurting those you have power over. That's sick.

[BruceVC]

I can't speak for other countries but in South Africa the CIA actions are still regularly discussed and condemned

 

Especially when we have now been told that South Africa agreed to be used for a black site. I have been very busy on this radio station defending and trying to explain context and the American justification on this at the time. But there is  a lot of general ignorance and  anti-American sentiment at the moment. This is emboldening those that dislike the West and giving them a platform for Western diatribe. Its quite annoying

[Malcador]

You are defending the US using South Africa as a place to torture people ?

Edited December 16, 2014 by Malcador

[Volourn]

Bruce is very much 100% pro government. He believes wholeheartedly that the individual does not have any rights and exists only  to be controlled, and enslaved. It's why he thinsk so little of women.

[Rostere]

Finally, a shining ray of common sense in all this.

[Meshugger]

Well, that was a bit surprising. Even if it was loooong over due.

[Gfted1]

Who gives a damn about Cuba? What do they have to offer us (besides cigars rolled in the thighs of virgins)?

[HoonDing]

Cuban health care makes USA seem like Third World.

[Gfted1]

So?

[Valsuelm]

Finally, a shining ray of common sense in all this.

 

While I'm generally against the retarded stance the U.S. has had with Cuba over the last many decades, the President is very limited in what he can do in regards to U.S. - Cuban relations. There is a great deal of anti-Cuban legislation on the books here.

 

That said, laws and limits on his power haven't concerned Obama too much on other issues... so....

[Valsuelm]

Cuban health care makes USA seem like Third World.

 

By the very definition of the concept, the U.S. is first world. Cuba would be second world. And if you want their communist health care system please feel free to move there.