Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[JadedWolf]

So here's what I'm curious about:

 

Why do so many anti-GG proponents blatantly ignore stuff like this? Certainly a large chunk of their community are misguided individuals who simply want equality for everyone. Why do those same individuals blindly follow authority or the group without question?

 

 

I know someone like that. My grandfather. He was a Nazi. C:   (actually true too, every portion of it. Dude literally has no will of his own and will blindly follow any order. Pretty sad and pathetic)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

 

Cognitive dissonance theory is founded on the assumption that individuals seek consistency between their expectations and their reality. Because of this, people engage in a process called dissonance reduction to bring their cognitions and actions in line with one another. This creation of uniformity allows for a lessening of psychological tension and distress. According to Festinger, dissonance reduction can be achieved in four ways^. In an example case where a person has adopted the attitude that they will no longer eat high fat food, but is eating a high-fat doughnut, the four methods of reduction would be:

• Change behavior or cognition ("I will not eat any more of this doughnut")
• Justify behavior or cognition by changing the conflicting cognition ("I'm allowed to cheat every once in a while")
• Justify behavior or cognition by adding new cognitions ("I'll spend 30 extra minutes at the gym to work this off")
• Ignore or deny any information that conflicts with existing beliefs ("This doughnut is not high fat")

They mostly seem to choose option 4.

[BladeO]

At this point, let me just state: I despise both sides of this argument and wish only the worst on them. I have been reading all these happening somewhat half-heartedly, and none of the two sides seem very nice. Anti-GG: neurotic fools and sociopaths GamerGate: /pol/**** and hypocrites. When will this all end? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't everything turn a million times worse ever since GamerGate appeared? Did this really start out of a talentless indie developer saying some **** about dating a journalist?

 

 

I know someone like that. My grandfather. He was a Nazi. C:   (actually true too, every portion of it. Dude literally has no will of his own and will blindly follow any order. Pretty sad and pathetic)

Did you consider that just maybe your grandfather actually believed that Hitler was right? That he had good reason to fight for him? I know that all the propaganda teaches us that nazis were less than human bullet sponges, basically evil incarnate, but look beyond that.

[Chilloutman]

I know someone like that. My grandfather. He was a Nazi. C:   (actually true too, every portion of it. Dude literally has no will of his own and will blindly follow any order. Pretty sad and pathetic)

Did you consider that just maybe your grandfather actually believed that Hitler was right? That he had good reason to fight for him? I know that all the propaganda teaches us that nazis were less than human bullet sponges, basically evil incarnate, but look beyond that.

 

Please don't derail this topic, this is question for different thread

[Meshugger]

But to keep on topic, i would like to ask Blade0 on how /pol/ managed to make advertizers to pull from Gawker, Gamasutra and such, make FTC update their FAQ on how media should report their sponsorships and how IGN and the Escapist updated their ethics policies.

 

Did i miss something?

[kirottu]

But to keep on topic, i would like to ask Blade0 on how /pol/ managed to make advertizers to pull from Gawker, Gamasutra and such, make FTC update their FAQ on how media should report their sponsorships and how IGN and the Escapist updated their ethics policies.

 

Did i miss something?

And how's that somehow million times worse than things were?

[Longknife]

At this point, let me just state: I despise both sides of this argument and wish only the worst on them. I have been reading all these happening somewhat half-heartedly, and none of the two sides seem very nice. Anti-GG: neurotic fools and sociopaths GamerGate: /pol/**** and hypocrites. When will this all end? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't everything turn a million times worse ever since GamerGate appeared? Did this really start out of a talentless indie developer saying some **** about dating a journalist?

 

 

I know someone like that. My grandfather. He was a Nazi. C:   (actually true too, every portion of it. Dude literally has no will of his own and will blindly follow any order. Pretty sad and pathetic)

Did you consider that just maybe your grandfather actually believed that Hitler was right? That he had good reason to fight for him? I know that all the propaganda teaches us that nazis were less than human bullet sponges, basically evil incarnate, but look beyond that.

 

 

Trust me, you dunno my grandfather. You would be AMAZED at how little will this guy has. If person A and person B have a fight, he will take the side of whichever was the last person to talk to him and argue their side. No joke, he's THAT pathetic. This has happened.

 

It was kind of an eye opener into how the Nazi army could've come to exist. Not saying Germans are normally like this (hell no) but wasn't aware such outrageously passive people existed. Now looking back he says the Nazi army was horrible, but honestly you could probably sit him down again, convince him Hitler was good and he'd buy into it all over again. Pathetic.

[JadedWolf]

 

At this point, let me just state: I despise both sides of this argument and wish only the worst on them. I have been reading all these happening somewhat half-heartedly, and none of the two sides seem very nice. Anti-GG: neurotic fools and sociopaths GamerGate: /pol/**** and hypocrites. When will this all end? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't everything turn a million times worse ever since GamerGate appeared? Did this really start out of a talentless indie developer saying some **** about dating a journalist?

 

 

I know someone like that. My grandfather. He was a Nazi. C:   (actually true too, every portion of it. Dude literally has no will of his own and will blindly follow any order. Pretty sad and pathetic)

Did you consider that just maybe your grandfather actually believed that Hitler was right? That he had good reason to fight for him? I know that all the propaganda teaches us that nazis were less than human bullet sponges, basically evil incarnate, but look beyond that.

 

 

Trust me, you dunno my grandfather. You would be AMAZED at how little will this guy has. If person A and person B have a fight, he will take the side of whichever was the last person to talk to him and argue their side. No joke, he's THAT pathetic. This has happened.

 

It was kind of an eye opener into how the Nazi army could've come to exist. Not saying Germans are normally like this (hell no) but wasn't aware such outrageously passive people existed. Now looking back he says the Nazi army was horrible, but honestly you could probably sit him down again, convince him Hitler was good and he'd buy into it all over again. Pathetic.

 

 

Hush now, Longknife. The random stranger from the internet knows your grandfather a lot better than you do from the single paragraph you typed about him.  Just go with it.

 

Seriously though, kudos for giving such a polite response to such an obnoxious statement.

[Gorgon]

Whenever I return to this thread it's a little more of this

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

[Longknife]

Whenever I return to this thread it's a little more of this

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

 

 

Supporting equality is all about being a part of the in crowd!

[Shallow]

 

Trust me, you dunno my grandfather. You would be AMAZED at how little will this guy has. If person A and person B have a fight, he will take the side of whichever was the last person to talk to him and argue their side. No joke, he's THAT pathetic. This has happened.

 

It was kind of an eye opener into how the Nazi army could've come to exist. Not saying Germans are normally like this (hell no) but wasn't aware such outrageously passive people existed. Now looking back he says the Nazi army was horrible, but honestly you could probably sit him down again, convince him Hitler was good and he'd buy into it all over again. Pathetic.

It's probably not lacking will, it's probably lacking reflection whilst still having an open mind. Lacking will implies that the guy is just easily subdued and doesn't have the drive to do anything. Lacking reflection either means accepting any argument regardless of how nonsensical it is, or accepting the first argument you hear and refusing to listen to anything else. I obviously don't know your grandfather, but from your description a lack of reflection seems a lot more probable than a lack of will, and while neither thing is great, I'd never be able to respect someone without the least bit of will, whereas someone without reflection can deserve some respect for other achievements than thought, therefore I feel I should state that you may be performing a poor mischaracterization, perhaps giving you a lesser view of someone than is warranted, of course I don't know, but it seems a lot more plausible.

[Longknife]

Why is everyone trying to insist my ****ty Nazi grandfather isn't such a bad guy...?

[BladeO]

Seriously though, kudos for giving such a polite response to such an obnoxious statement.

 

I know I sounded obnoxious, but I just go blind with rage whenever I smell the good old bull**** "nazis are evul, the worst on the planet!" I don't claim to know anyone's grandfather better than them, but I'm just wary of any nazi bashing bs. I remember Rochus Misch's daughter in that documentary - I didn't know whether to rage or laugh. Basically she was saying how much of a sheep her father was, when she was basically saying the most cookie cutter generic "evul nazi" opinion.

Edited November 28, 2014 by BladeO

[Chilloutman]

 

Seriously though, kudos for giving such a polite response to such an obnoxious statement.

 

I know I sounded obnoxious, but I just go blind with rage whenever I smell the good old bull**** "nazis are evul, the worst on the planet!" I don't claim to know anyone's grandfather better than them, but I'm just wary of any nazi bashing bs. I remember Rochus Misch's daughter in that documentary - I didn't know whether to rage or laugh. Basically she was saying how much of a sheep her father was, when she was basically saying the most cookie cutter generic "evul nazi" opinion.

 

 

Are you saying that nazis were not evil?

[Shallow]

Why is everyone trying to insist my ****ty Nazi grandfather isn't such a bad guy...?

You said yourself he'd agree with anything he was told, thus him being an ex Nazi isn't him having an intense hatred for the Jews and Commies, and wanting to further Aryan race at the expense of everyone else, it's him having heard some people say that and then thought "Yeah sure, that sounds reasonable." without really thinking about what any of it means, the end result is him along with others contributing to stuff I find detestable, but you don't make him seem intentionally malicious, regardless of whether he's a pathetic spineless coward or someone who doesn't think about stuff very much. Therefore, from what little information you've provided, him being a bad guy just isn't necessary, him having been involved in a lot of bad stuff is though, but that doesn't make him a bad guy.

[BladeO]

Are you saying that nazis were not evil?

Yes. Because guess what? They weren't, they were just products of their age, and most importantly: they were people like you and me. They had a reason why they thought the way they did. People think of them as irredeemable because of the holocaust, but they don't say the same **** of the communists who committed even worse atrocities (holodomor, Gulags) since Stalin was with the Allies. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Edited November 28, 2014 by BladeO

[Shallow]

 

Are you saying that nazis were not evil?

Yes. Because guess what? They weren't, they were just products of their age, and most importantly: they were people like you and me. They had a reason why they thought the way they did. People think of them as irredeemable because of the holocaust, but they don't say the same **** of the communists who committed even worse atrocities (holodomor, Gulags) since Stalin was with the Allies. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

You picked the wrong person to give the commie analogy to...

[Blarghagh]

So you wish the worst on both sides of the GamerGate debate, but the Nazis were just misguided?

[BladeO]

So you wish the worst on both sides of the GamerGate debate, but the Nazis were just misguided?

"Worst" is just a word I used, I don't actually want them to be raped, tortured and murdered but I do hope they would get a bad cold or their girlfriends / boyfriends would cheat on them. And the nazis did what they did because they geniunely believed what they were doing would change the world for the better. GamerGate debate is about e-**** size, simple as that.

Edited November 28, 2014 by BladeO

[Longknife]

 

Why is everyone trying to insist my ****ty Nazi grandfather isn't such a bad guy...?

 

You said yourself he'd agree with anything he was told, thus him being an ex Nazi isn't him having an intense hatred for the Jews and Commies, and wanting to further Aryan race at the expense of everyone else, it's him having heard some people say that and then thought "Yeah sure, that sounds reasonable." without really thinking about what any of it means, the end result is him along with others contributing to stuff I find detestable, but you don't make him seem intentionally malicious, regardless of whether he's a pathetic spineless coward or someone who doesn't think about stuff very much. Therefore, from what little information you've provided, him being a bad guy just isn't necessary, him having been involved in a lot of bad stuff is though, but that doesn't make him a bad guy.

Maybe it's just me but I personally consider someone who is so unbelievably spineless that they'd go along with ANYTHING they're told to the point where they find themselves mowing down Russians with a machine gun, then that person is on the same level of scum as the very people who are genuinely bigoted towards other races as he lacks any moral compass, any cause or any self worth to stand up for and ultimately amounts to a meager existence as nothing more than a tool for more malicious people to utilize.

 

 

There's a quote from New Vegas I found difficult to see the wisdom in at first, but every so often it seems to apply perfectly:

 

"Ignorance is a choice."

 

 

 

 

 

And if none of that has convinced you, we're talking about the same guy who...my father maliciously kept me out of contact with my grandparents out of spite for a poor upbringing he went through, I didn't meet them until I was 18 years old thanks to the combined efforts of myself and my uncle, and then despite being frustrated with my father for never providing us with a way to contact one another, he immediately bent to the will of my father when my father told him I was evil and should not be spoken with. No questions asked, he just slammed the door on me cause my father said to do so, and clearly my father has never been wrong or done anything wrong, right...?

He would later go on to serve as a magnificent pawn when my father decided to sue his very own brother for money, lying about an exchange of cash that went on between them in order to make it appear my father was owed a debt. Despite having factually spoken with my uncle in ways that contradicted my father's claims, he accepted my father's claims above his own experiences and WISELY my father alerted my grandfather that my uncle was a lying malicious snake and SHOULDNT be spoken to, so as to prevent my uncle from simply switching my grandfather over to his side with one brief conversation. (And yes this almost happened) He would also use my grandfather to work the inheritance in such a way that my uncle would see none of it.

 

 

I find it kinda nice and endearing that you guys wanna see the best in people, and it's a good mindset to have, but I simply cannot overstate how spineless and devoid of a self that my grandfather in. It quickly went from a travesty of never getting to know him in great detail due to intervention of my father to "why on earth would I want to know someone so pathetic anyways?" I essentially learned about his background from old friends of the family who all confirmed how spineless he's always been (I theorized that maybe he followed orders with the rationale of "if I'm simply following orders it's not my fault" in order to cope with his being a nazi, but I was told that no, he was always that pathetic well before the Nazis) and basically warned me that my entire German family is rather toxic, and I'd be better off going my own way rather than trying to get to know them.

This is simply a case of "TRUST ME GUIS, I KNO WUT IM TALKIN BOUT."

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So pro-corruption drives a women off twitter and Longknife's grandpa was a spineless Nazi who many here in the forum know better than Longknife.

 

This never slows down does it?

[Chilloutman]

 

Are you saying that nazis were not evil?

Yes. Because guess what? They weren't, they were just products of their age, and most importantly: they were people like you and me. They had a reason why they thought the way they did. People think of them as irredeemable because of the holocaust, but they don't say the same **** of the communists who committed even worse atrocities (holodomor, Gulags) since Stalin was with the Allies. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

 

I say same **** about commies...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

Are you saying that nazis were not evil?

 

Yes. Because guess what? They weren't, they were just products of their age, and most importantly: they were people like you and me. They had a reason why they thought the way they did. People think of them as irredeemable because of the holocaust, but they don't say the same **** of the communists who committed even worse atrocities (holodomor, Gulags) since Stalin was with the Allies. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

I say same **** about commies...

Doesn't everyone say the same about the Commies?

[Shallow]

Ignorance isn't a choice, in that you're ignorant by default, you have to actively choose not to be ignorant to not be ignorant.

 

For someone who appears (from what you've written) to put as little thought into his existence as your grandfather, how could he possibly ever even choose to be ignorant, or to seize being ignorant, when he's probably never even thought about it? The one kind of person I could never possibly bring myself to respect is a spineless coward, I'd have an easier time respecting someone who was essentially evil, which is why I'm saying there's a good chance he's just someone who's got absolutely no thought, as opposed to him being someone with absolutely no spine. It takes spine to fight a war, an ideal footsoldier is supposed to have physical strength, determination, and to not think about things. Whilst a complete lack of reflection and information filtering is nearly as bad a personality trait as a complete lack of a spine, I'd still consider such a person a better overall person, someone without a spine goes along with whatever he's told because he doesn't want to deal with the trouble, someone without critical thinking goes along because it seems right. Someone lacking critical thinking may be just as annoying to deal with as someone lacking a spine, but they really do deserve that tiny inch of respect because, even though it isn't worth anything, for intention's never worth anything, it isn't because they think it's the easier way out that they act the way they do, it's because they simply don't think.

 

While most of the middle stuff is highly debatable, and who you should give what respect is insanely subjective, the first sentence is in this post is still objectively true, ignorance isn't the choice, lack thereof is, and to make that decision it's a requirement that you aren't completely ignorant, for then you couldn't even know that the choice existed.

[BladeO]

I say same **** about commies...

Yes, but its not considered kewl. There's always something about the Holocaust, but very rarely does anyone talk about the Holodomor or the Gulags. In fact, nowadays there are some people who claim that people in the Soviet Union had it good and they all want Communism back, but that's a plain lie. At least my grandmother would like to argue with them, or any one of my family who have suffered at the hands of Communist dictators. I could tell stories, but I'm sure you know how it went.

Of course, it would be hypocritical of me to say that communists are evil, when I say the nazis were people just like us, and I'm not saying that, I think the same of Communist dictatorships as Nazi Germany. However, there's a great gap between the generic "evul nazi" representations and the represntation of Communist in today's world. eg: Che Guevara posters are okay, while Rudolf Hess posters would be considered distasteful.

[Longknife]

So pro-corruption drives a women off twitter and Longknife's grandpa was a spineless Nazi who many here in the forum know better than Longknife.

 

This never slows down does it?

 

 

I promise guys, I know I was the one to derail that Thanksgiving thread BUT I SWEAR IT WASN'T ME DIS TIME.

 

 

Inb4 a pro- and anti- Longknife's grandfather movement breaks out.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Longknife