Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Keyrock]

 

https://archive.today/1DbIe

 

This was pretty funny. I am not sure the game is especially reveling in the deaths of hookers versus other NPCs (you get money from them regardless, right?)

He actually makes a compelling argument and raises some cogent points

 

Did you read the whole article because he answers your question, see below where he explains the difference between killing a hooker and killing other people

 

 

"What I personally find repulsive about this game is the pleasure it offers in portraying the savaging of a class of people who are already victims, in real life. This is where GTA 5 shows a lack of judgment. I take issue with the portrayal of sex workers being abused and murdered, because sex workers are already victims, and it's just not right to take your fun in abusing victims.

I know a lot of people desperately want to believe that killing a prostitute in GTA 5 is the same as killing any other character, but it's really not. Unlike gangsters or cops or business dudes or hot dog vendors, prostitutes, as a class, are despised, marginalized and abused in real life, all the time. This means that GTA 5 takes its pleasure in humiliating and abusing victims of humiliation and abuse.

In what kind of world is that not worthy of debate, above and beyond the ignorant cry of "if you don't like it, don't buy it"? "

He is basically advocating for Rockstar to remove the killing of hookers as they are already victims and it makes sense to me after reading that article. Its not unreasonable

 

The game in no way encourages you to kill prostitutes any more than it does any other civilian.  The "pleasure" the game offers for killing prostitutes is in the mind of the specific players deriving pleasure from killing virtual hookers.  The game in no way indicates or encourages deriving any more or less pleasure from killing hookers than any other type of civilians.  Some people may get off on killing virtual hookers, others may get off on killing virtual businessmen.  The game does nothing to make that distinction, it is purely in the mind of the specific individual playing the game.

 

The game is a crime satire.  Criminals do nasty things, including killing people, thus the game allows you to kill people, anybody.  Hookers exist in real life, thus they exist in the game.  You suggestion to remove hookers from the game would, by definition, be discrimination.  Same thing if you made them invulnerable.  You would be treating them differently or excluding them altogether based solely on their profession.

 

You may not find discriminating against people based solely on their profession to be unreasonable, I do.  

Edited December 11, 2014 by Keyrock

[Chilloutman]

 

I did read the whole article, he doesn't really give a good answer other than indicating he has some issues with hookers. You can kill them just like anyone else - GTA's freedom to go on rampages is part of the fun of the series - but you don't have to do so to progress the completion of the game. Killing an NPC hooker is indeed just the same as killing any other NPC - these things aren't real, I really hope he is aware of that.

 

If killing virtual hookers is bad though for whatever reason (I guess perception of them will be the best shot he can offer) - how can he be okay with killing NPCs with glasses ? elderly ones ? ANY NPC ?

But you agree this can be removed from the game without it really impacting your experience? That's his point

 

Same can be sad about - i dont know - riding a bike. Are you advocating that if someone have complain about riding a bike it should be removed because you know - you can still drive in car so it doesnt have impact on your experience? Beside who will decide what will impact MY experience and what not? Questions, Questions...

Edited December 11, 2014 by Chilloutman

[Malcador]

But you agree this can be removed from the game without it really impacting your experience? That's his point

If they get rid of prostitutes ? Nope it wouldn't change it. That isn't his point, his point is why it is needed - else he's trying some "why not?" argument, which is very poor. I did get a laugh at some comments on that - one suggested a permanent wanted level for offing hookers

[BruceVC]

 

 

https://archive.today/1DbIe

 

This was pretty funny. I am not sure the game is especially reveling in the deaths of hookers versus other NPCs (you get money from them regardless, right?)

He actually makes a compelling argument and raises some cogent points

 

Did you read the whole article because he answers your question, see below where he explains the difference between killing a hooker and killing other people

 

 

"What I personally find repulsive about this game is the pleasure it offers in portraying the savaging of a class of people who are already victims, in real life. This is where GTA 5 shows a lack of judgment. I take issue with the portrayal of sex workers being abused and murdered, because sex workers are already victims, and it's just not right to take your fun in abusing victims.

I know a lot of people desperately want to believe that killing a prostitute in GTA 5 is the same as killing any other character, but it's really not. Unlike gangsters or cops or business dudes or hot dog vendors, prostitutes, as a class, are despised, marginalized and abused in real life, all the time. This means that GTA 5 takes its pleasure in humiliating and abusing victims of humiliation and abuse.

In what kind of world is that not worthy of debate, above and beyond the ignorant cry of "if you don't like it, don't buy it"? "

He is basically advocating for Rockstar to remove the killing of hookers as they are already victims and it makes sense to me after reading that article. Its not unreasonable

 

The game in no way encourages you to kill prostitutes any more than it does any other civilian.  The "pleasure" the game offers for killing prostitutes is in the mind of the specific players deriving pleasure from killing virtual hookers.  The game in no way indicates or encourages deriving any more or less pleasure from killing hookers than any other type of civilians.  Some people may get off on killing virtual hookers, others may get off on killing virtual businessmen.  The game does nothing to make that distinction, it is purely in the mind of the specific individual playing the game.

 

The game is a crime satire.  Criminals do nasty things, including killing people, thus the game allows you to kill people, anybody.  Hookers exist in real life, thus they exist in the game.  You suggestion to remove hookers from the game would, by definition, be discrimination.  Same thing if you made them invulnerable.  You would be treating them differently or excluding them altogether based solely on their profession.

 

You may not find discriminating against people based solely on their profession to be unreasonable, I do.  

 

 

He is not suggesting you can't kill people, he is simply saying its in bad taste to kill groups of people who are already victims of society

 

For example why not allow children to be killed? Now most of us wouldn't be happy with that for a variety of reasons. So you have this automatic moral objection to the killing of children but not hookers? If in RL a hooker and hotdog stand person were watching someone  playing GTA5 and they saw someone going on a killing spree I can guarantee you the hotdog guy  would watch people killing someone in his profession and just laugh about it but the hooker wouldn't be as impressed because in RL she is subjected to that kind of treatment and abuse. The hotdog guy isn't a victim of his profession

 

And if you believe this game represents a real crime reality then where are male prostitutes and children that you can kill?

 

Hell I love the GTA series and I have been on killing sprees and killed only hookers. And this does not suggest I would ever do this in RL but after reading that article this is something Rockstar can change and should as it wont dilute your gaming experience and is the right thing to do

 

 

 

I did read the whole article, he doesn't really give a good answer other than indicating he has some issues with hookers. You can kill them just like anyone else - GTA's freedom to go on rampages is part of the fun of the series - but you don't have to do so to progress the completion of the game. Killing an NPC hooker is indeed just the same as killing any other NPC - these things aren't real, I really hope he is aware of that.

 

If killing virtual hookers is bad though for whatever reason (I guess perception of them will be the best shot he can offer) - how can he be okay with killing NPCs with glasses ? elderly ones ? ANY NPC ?

But you agree this can be removed from the game without it really impacting your experience? That's his point

 

Same can be sad about - i dont know - riding a bike. Are you advocating that if someone have complain about riding a bike it should be removed because you know - you can still drive in car so it doesnt have impact on your experience? Beside who will decide what will impact MY experience and what not? Questions, Questions...

 

 

A bike is not a real person, hookers are real people who have real emotions and feelings and many of them are victims of horrendous abuse

 

Also if you really like playing GTA5 just  so you can kill hookers that should raise some psychological questions that should concern you

[Chilloutman]

A bike is not a real person, hookers are real people who have real emotions and feelings and many of them are victims of horrendous abuse

 

Also if you really like playing GTA5 just  so you can kill hookers that should raise some psychological questions that should concern you

I have feeling you are one needing psychologist if you think that NPC in game is real person...

[BruceVC]

 

A bike is not a real person, hookers are real people who have real emotions and feelings and many of them are victims of horrendous abuse

 

Also if you really like playing GTA5 just  so you can kill hookers that should raise some psychological questions that should concern you

I have feeling you are one needing psychologist if you think that NPC in game is real person...

 

 

 

You funny

 

Of course I know a NPC is not a real person but the principle of killing someone in a game  is still relevant. Many  games do represent a form of symbolism and can tell a RL story. So we need to sometimes consider the RL impact a game may or may not have

[Keyrock]

 

 

 

https://archive.today/1DbIe

 

This was pretty funny. I am not sure the game is especially reveling in the deaths of hookers versus other NPCs (you get money from them regardless, right?)

He actually makes a compelling argument and raises some cogent points

 

Did you read the whole article because he answers your question, see below where he explains the difference between killing a hooker and killing other people

 

 

"What I personally find repulsive about this game is the pleasure it offers in portraying the savaging of a class of people who are already victims, in real life. This is where GTA 5 shows a lack of judgment. I take issue with the portrayal of sex workers being abused and murdered, because sex workers are already victims, and it's just not right to take your fun in abusing victims.

I know a lot of people desperately want to believe that killing a prostitute in GTA 5 is the same as killing any other character, but it's really not. Unlike gangsters or cops or business dudes or hot dog vendors, prostitutes, as a class, are despised, marginalized and abused in real life, all the time. This means that GTA 5 takes its pleasure in humiliating and abusing victims of humiliation and abuse.

In what kind of world is that not worthy of debate, above and beyond the ignorant cry of "if you don't like it, don't buy it"? "

He is basically advocating for Rockstar to remove the killing of hookers as they are already victims and it makes sense to me after reading that article. Its not unreasonable

 

The game in no way encourages you to kill prostitutes any more than it does any other civilian.  The "pleasure" the game offers for killing prostitutes is in the mind of the specific players deriving pleasure from killing virtual hookers.  The game in no way indicates or encourages deriving any more or less pleasure from killing hookers than any other type of civilians.  Some people may get off on killing virtual hookers, others may get off on killing virtual businessmen.  The game does nothing to make that distinction, it is purely in the mind of the specific individual playing the game.

 

The game is a crime satire.  Criminals do nasty things, including killing people, thus the game allows you to kill people, anybody.  Hookers exist in real life, thus they exist in the game.  You suggestion to remove hookers from the game would, by definition, be discrimination.  Same thing if you made them invulnerable.  You would be treating them differently or excluding them altogether based solely on their profession.

 

You may not find discriminating against people based solely on their profession to be unreasonable, I do.  

 

 

He is not suggesting you can't kill people, he is simply saying its in bad taste to kill groups of people who are already victims of society

 

For example why not allow children to be killed? 

Okay.

 

Now most of us wouldn't be happy with that for a variety of reasons. So you have this automatic moral objection to the killing of children but not hookers?

I don't.  Don't put words in my mouth.

 

If in RL a hooker and hotdog stand person were watching someone  playing GTA5 and they saw someone going on a killing spree I can guarantee you the hotdog guy  would watch people killing someone in his profession and just laugh about it but the hooker wouldn't be as impressed because in RL she is subjected to that kind of treatment and abuse.  The hotdog guy isn't a victim of his profession

 

And if you believe this game represents a real crime reality then where are male prostitutes and children that you can kill?

 

How many male prostitutes are there compared to female prostitutes?  I don't have any numbers to fall back upon, but I'm guessing the percentage of male prostitutes is minuscule compared to female prostitutes.  So, if GTA wanted to do a relatively realistic portrayal of the real world and there are, say 200 female prostitutes in the game, there might be 1 or 2 male prostitutes.  Hardly seems like it's worth making a male prostitute model that you're only ever going to use once or twice and is an insignificant civilian character.  It comes down to it not making sense for the budget. (As an aside, Saints Row has male prostitutes.  Score one for Volition) As for children.  I would personally like to see them in the game.  I imagine Rockstar and Take Two didn't include them because they already get enough flak for other stuff in the game, which is a shame.

 

Here is the ridiculous vicious circle of the SJWs.

 

Can't have group a in this game, they're already victims in real life.  Outrage!

 

Can't have group b in this game, it reflects poorly on them.  Outrage!

 

Why aren't games including group a and group b?  This is discrimination!  Outrage!

Edited December 11, 2014 by Keyrock

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I've heard a lot of comparisons between the desire of video game censorship and the Comics Code Authority. Any thoughts on that, my fellow ****lords?

 

Oh and then there's this: http://branch.com/b/gamergate-debate-video-games-free-speech-misogyny

 

Text conversation so a bit hard to read.

Edited December 11, 2014 by KaineParker

[Shallow]

 

https://archive.today/1DbIe

 

This was pretty funny. I am not sure the game is especially reveling in the deaths of hookers versus other NPCs (you get money from them regardless, right?)

He actually makes a compelling argument and raises some cogent points

 

Did you read the whole article because he answers your question, see below where he explains the difference between killing a hooker and killing other people

 

 

"What I personally find repulsive about this game is the pleasure it offers in portraying the savaging of a class of people who are already victims, in real life. This is where GTA 5 shows a lack of judgment. I take issue with the portrayal of sex workers being abused and murdered, because sex workers are already victims, and it's just not right to take your fun in abusing victims.

I know a lot of people desperately want to believe that killing a prostitute in GTA 5 is the same as killing any other character, but it's really not. Unlike gangsters or cops or business dudes or hot dog vendors, prostitutes, as a class, are despised, marginalized and abused in real life, all the time. This means that GTA 5 takes its pleasure in humiliating and abusing victims of humiliation and abuse.

In what kind of world is that not worthy of debate, above and beyond the ignorant cry of "if you don't like it, don't buy it"? "

He is basically advocating for Rockstar to remove the killing of hookers as they are already victims and it makes sense to me after reading that article. Its not unreasonable

 

Whores aren't magic special victims, they're regular people, just like you and me. It's complete bs to go off acting like prostitutes are somehow all certainly greater victims than other people, whilst they're probably demographically pretty high on an arbitrary victim scale, they're individuals, and so are hotdog salesmen. Your comment about how hotdog salesmen would be cool with watching hotdog salesmen be killed ingame but prostitutes wouldn't because all prostitutes are magic victims who constantly have people trying to kill them ridiculous, while a bigger percentage of hookers are probably killed than hotdog salesmen I assure you, there will be individual hotdog salesmen and individual hookers, who've had people try to assault or murder them, and there will be people who haven't. Regardless of whether a higher percentage of them are "victims" than a higher percentage of other people doesn't mean it's right to give them some kind of special protection status, individuals are individuals, individuals in all professions have the potential to have had horrible stuff happen to them, being a member of the victims league shouldn't be an exclusive for some genders. Stop pushing for inequality, stop pushing for people being treated based on which demographic they're in, not based on what's happened to them. Now I'm gonna pull a volo and call you an evil hateful bigot nazi. You're labeling people in an inhumane and cruel manner, you aren't looking out for individuals, or even recognizing their individuality, you're deciding that some groups that aren't directly grouped by the horrible things that have happened in their past should be treated as if they were. Hotdogstandman Bob may have been molested as a child, bullied in school, and assaulted at work, and may be extremely ashamed of the work he does, Hooker Berta might have had a perfectly good upbringing, be open with her sexuality, and be living a happy life, your ruthless generalization is spitting in both of their faces.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

https://archive.today/1DbIe

 

This was pretty funny. I am not sure the game is especially reveling in the deaths of hookers versus other NPCs (you get money from them regardless, right?)

He actually makes a compelling argument and raises some cogent points

 

Did you read the whole article because he answers your question, see below where he explains the difference between killing a hooker and killing other people

 

 

"What I personally find repulsive about this game is the pleasure it offers in portraying the savaging of a class of people who are already victims, in real life. This is where GTA 5 shows a lack of judgment. I take issue with the portrayal of sex workers being abused and murdered, because sex workers are already victims, and it's just not right to take your fun in abusing victims.

I know a lot of people desperately want to believe that killing a prostitute in GTA 5 is the same as killing any other character, but it's really not. Unlike gangsters or cops or business dudes or hot dog vendors, prostitutes, as a class, are despised, marginalized and abused in real life, all the time. This means that GTA 5 takes its pleasure in humiliating and abusing victims of humiliation and abuse.

In what kind of world is that not worthy of debate, above and beyond the ignorant cry of "if you don't like it, don't buy it"? "

He is basically advocating for Rockstar to remove the killing of hookers as they are already victims and it makes sense to me after reading that article. Its not unreasonable

 

The game in no way encourages you to kill prostitutes any more than it does any other civilian.  The "pleasure" the game offers for killing prostitutes is in the mind of the specific players deriving pleasure from killing virtual hookers.  The game in no way indicates or encourages deriving any more or less pleasure from killing hookers than any other type of civilians.  Some people may get off on killing virtual hookers, others may get off on killing virtual businessmen.  The game does nothing to make that distinction, it is purely in the mind of the specific individual playing the game.

 

The game is a crime satire.  Criminals do nasty things, including killing people, thus the game allows you to kill people, anybody.  Hookers exist in real life, thus they exist in the game.  You suggestion to remove hookers from the game would, by definition, be discrimination.  Same thing if you made them invulnerable.  You would be treating them differently or excluding them altogether based solely on their profession.

 

You may not find discriminating against people based solely on their profession to be unreasonable, I do.  

 

 

He is not suggesting you can't kill people, he is simply saying its in bad taste to kill groups of people who are already victims of society

 

For example why not allow children to be killed? 

Okay.

 

Now most of us wouldn't be happy with that for a variety of reasons. So you have this automatic moral objection to the killing of children but not hookers?

I don't.  Don't put words in my mouth.

 

If in RL a hooker and hotdog stand person were watching someone  playing GTA5 and they saw someone going on a killing spree I can guarantee you the hotdog guy  would watch people killing someone in his profession and just laugh about it but the hooker wouldn't be as impressed because in RL she is subjected to that kind of treatment and abuse.  The hotdog guy isn't a victim of his profession

 

And if you believe this game represents a real crime reality then where are male prostitutes and children that you can kill?

 

How many male prostitutes are there compared to female prostitutes?  I don't have any numbers to fall back upon, but I'm guessing the percentage of male prostitutes is minuscule compared to female prostitutes.  So, if GTA wanted to do a relatively realistic portrayal of the real world and there are, say 200 female prostitutes in the game, there might be 1 or 2 male prostitutes.  Hardly seems like it's worth making a male prostitute model that you're only ever going to use once or twice and is an insignificant civilian character.  It comes down to it not making sense for the budget. (As an aside, Saints Row has male prostitutes.  Score one for Volition) As for children.  I would personally like to see them in the game.  I imagine Rockstar and Take Two didn't include them because they already get enough flak for other stuff in the game, which is a shame.

 

Here is the ridiculous vicious circle of the SJWs.

 

Can't have group a in this game, they're already victims in real life.  Outrage!

 

Can't have group b in this game, it reflects poorly on them.  Outrage!

 

Why aren't games including group a and group b?  This is discrimination!  Outrage!

 

 

I'm not sure I'm explaining my point properly, I try through a series of questions.

 

Do you think hookers are victims of abuse in RL?

 

 

Also I don't think we will ever agree on this point because you are fine, and would even like to see, children that can be killed in games. That type of perspective is just foreign to me and its hard to debate something when you can't really get why anyone would want that ?

[Malcador]

Aren't gang members really victims of social injustice that disenfranchises them and pushes them to a life of crime as they are ostracized and isolated due to racial or soci-economic factors ? Should probably stop killing them in GTA.

 

I guess games should portray reality ?

Edited December 11, 2014 by Malcador

[Blarghagh]

Oh and then there's this: http://branch.com/b/gamergate-debate-video-games-free-speech-misogyny

 

Text conversation so a bit hard to read.

 

Everything Arthur Chu writes in there makes me feel so sorry for him. It must be hard to be so cynical and full of hate.

[Meshugger]

Infanticide is ok:

 

 

Racism, persecution and genocide is ok:

 

 

Sexism and incest is ok:

 

 

Institutionalized patriarchy and misogynic violence is ok:

 

 

 

 

 

....

...

..

.

But GTA V is problematic. Please give a counter argument why those are ok and GTA V is not. No "hahaha surely you're joking" or any snide remark. I am dead serious. Either you give logically consistent argument on why those should be allowed while GTA V shouldn't. Otherwise i will continue to meet each and every argument by mocking, laughing or with scorn.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

A bike is not a real person, hookers are real people who have real emotions and feelings and many of them are victims of horrendous abuse

 

Also if you really like playing GTA5 just  so you can kill hookers that should raise some psychological questions that should concern you

I have feeling you are one needing psychologist if you think that NPC in game is real person...

 

 

 

You funny

 

Of course I know a NPC is not a real person but the principle of killing someone in a game  is still relevant. Many  games do represent a form of symbolism and can tell a RL story. So we need to sometimes consider the RL impact a game may or may not have

 

Yeah strange that killing fathers of families doesnt have same impact on RL huh? Killing prostitutes is not RL story? It never happend in RL? You are contradicting yourself. And again, even if we consider that it may have impact on RL who will decide what have and what doesnt have impact? You?

Edited December 11, 2014 by Chilloutman

[Blarghagh]

 

Oh and then there's this: http://branch.com/b/gamergate-debate-video-games-free-speech-misogyny

 

Text conversation so a bit hard to read.

 

Everything Arthur Chu writes in there makes me feel so sorry for him. It must be hard to be so cynical and full of hate.

 

No, I take this back. He's not cynical and full of hate. He's just very, very dumb. In fact, everyone involved in this conversation is pretty dumb, even the pro-#GG side.

[BruceVC]

Aren't gang members really victims of social injustice that disenfranchises them and pushes them to a life of crime as they are ostracized and isolated due to racial or soci-economic factors ? Should probably stop killing them in GTA.

 

I guess games should portray reality ?

 

This is actually a very good point and by my logic gangbangers should also be considered victims of a social construct

 

Yet I don't feel that sorry for them..is this is wrong and I don't want them removed from games. Am I discriminating against gangbangers?  Probably...but I never said I was perfect, I think you guys need to accept that, I'm not perfect

[Keyrock]

 

-snip-

 

I'm not sure I'm explaining my point properly, I try through a series of questions.

 

Do you think hookers are victims of abuse in RL?

As someone who is not a prostitute myself, nor do I closely know anyone who is a prostitute, I don't feel I can adequately make that judgement.  I would guess that some are, maybe even many or most, but, unlike SJWs, I don't like to speak for other people and make assumptions for them.  I can make guesses, but that's the best I can do.

 

Also I don't think we will ever agree on this point because you are fine, and would even like to see, children that can be killed in games. That type of perspective is just foreign to me and its hard to debate something when you can't really get why anyone would want that ?

Just because it's possible to kill someone in a game doesn't mean you have to do it.  Beyond the first hour or so of me playing GTA 3, way back in the day, and experimenting with the game to see how far the game would let you go, more out of curiosity than anything else, I've generally tried to avoid killing civilians, going so far as to drive carefully to not run people over unless it's a time sensitive mission and I am forced to drive like a maniac, and I certainly don't target specific varieties of civilians.  If I wanted to, I could go around and only kill Hispanic looking people.  I don't, but I could, the game allows for that.  Similarly, if the game included children I could specifically go around and kill children.  I wouldn't, but I would not have a problem with the option being there.  

 

GTA, while satire, attempts to portray a somewhat realistic society, touch on real issues, and do it in at least a somewhat realistic manner (as opposed to something like Saints Row which is almost as far removed from realistic as possible), in an effort to make social commentary.  If you want to portray a somewhat realistic society and make social commentary you need to portray all of it.  You can't shy away from the squeamish stuff or the distasteful stuff.  Squeamish stuff and distasteful stuff exists in real life, it affects real people and is a part of real issues.

 

GTA is a game, a sandbox, that allows you to play in a variety of ways.  If you want to play as a savage psychopath, you can.  You can also try to play as someone who is trying to do good and stay out of trouble, but gets dragged into situations where they have no choice but to do horrible things.  That is your choice as a player.  I also believe, and I'm not a developer on the game, so this is purely speculation on my part, grain of salt and all that, that Rockstar tries in its games to relay some of the horrors of crime in its games and speak about the sacrifices (whether in loved ones or ones own sanity) people make when they descend down the dark path of crime.  (In this sense, I think Sleeping Dogs did a much better job of conveying the horrors of crime and the inner conflict of the person having to do horrible things to survive and move up in the hierarchy).

 

Killing children is terrible, but it happens in real life too.  How you react to killing children in a game is up to you.  Would some people revel in it?  Potentially yes.  It could also serve to horrify the player and make them despair over the horrible thing that happened because of the crimes they've committed.  If children were in the game, as they are in real life, then whether you go out and kill children in the game is up to you and how you react to it is dependent upon you.  It's your choice.  I'm pro-choice.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Keyrock

[Chilloutman]

 

Aren't gang members really victims of social injustice that disenfranchises them and pushes them to a life of crime as they are ostracized and isolated due to racial or soci-economic factors ? Should probably stop killing them in GTA.

 

I guess games should portray reality ?

 

This is actually a very good point and by my logic gangbangers should also be considered victims of a social construct

 

Yet I don't feel that sorry for them..is this is wrong and I don't want them removed from games. Am I discriminating against gangbangers?  Probably...but I never said I was perfect, I think you guys need to accept that, I'm not perfect

 

Oh don't worry Bruce, I think a lot of people here thinks/knows that you are miles away from statement 'perfect' (if its not in conjunction with some pejorative expression for intimate male/female parts)

[Ganrich]

Virtual worlds are not the real world.

 

I personally find Bioware's dating sim systems that lead to cheesy sex scenes tasteless. I think those conversations are there to lead you to the end result of a sex scene (anything after the first mass effect game anyway). I could even argue that they are somewhat sexist as they just give the goal of sex as a reward for talking to your npc of choice in the appropriate way. They are also a core mechanic for Bioware titles.

 

I would never ask for them to be removed from a Bioware game or anyone else's game if they were persuing that system.

 

I know you like your romances, Bruce. How would you feel about these tables being turned?

 

I would also like to say I don't really care for GTA these days, but I enjoyed Red Dead Redemption. I still wouldn't want sections of their content stripped because a small group of people (some of which don't play the games) don't like the content.

[Nonek]

Good lord, we're not seriously back to the idiotic assertion that virtual behaviour affects real life behaviour are we? It's been disproven time after time.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Good lord, we're not seriously back to the idiotic assertion that virtual behaviour affects real life behaviour are we? It's been disproven time after time.

Proof doesn't matter if you believe enough.

 

Anyways, Hotwheels just dropped a bomb where Wu apparently didn't leave her house and Chu is defending a scam artist from being revealed.

[Meshugger]

Whaaa?

[kgambit]

 

I did read the whole article, he doesn't really give a good answer other than indicating he has some issues with hookers. You can kill them just like anyone else - GTA's freedom to go on rampages is part of the fun of the series - but you don't have to do so to progress the completion of the game. Killing an NPC hooker is indeed just the same as killing any other NPC - these things aren't real, I really hope he is aware of that.

 

If killing virtual hookers is bad though for whatever reason (I guess perception of them will be the best shot he can offer) - how can he be okay with killing NPCs with glasses ? elderly ones ? ANY NPC ?

But you agree this can be removed from the game without it really impacting your experience? That's his point

 

 

Frankly considering that he considers hookers to be an already abused and marginalized class, you would have thought that he would have argued for their exclusion entirely. 

 

Besides killing them is optional.  Haven't you previously argued that people who dislike romances can simply avoid them since they're optional?

 

Disclaimer:  I don't own GTAV or any of the titles in the series for that matter.  I don't enjoy the genre or the game play.

Edited December 11, 2014 by kgambit

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Whaaa?

http://branch.com/b/gamergate-debate-video-games-free-speech-misogyny

 

Chu slams Pinsof for outing a trans because he reported that they were running a scam.

 

Hotwheels posted an image of Wu working from the same location(over the span of several months, using various interviews and the recent AJ piece) to show that she hasn't moved. I suppose one could argue she's been holed up in a different apartment, but it does look strange.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Now Chu is defending harassment.