What You See Is What You Get Loot System

[Seari]

 

 

Beamdog has WotCs ear and will like to make another D&D game similar to IE games using either IE engine or even PoE engine.

I sincerely doubt that.

 

Read this then: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2msl96/we_are_beamdog_developers_of_baldurs_gate_i_ii/

 

All I can find is adventure Y, that as far as I know is a connection between bg1 and 2, and completely uneeded.

 

And that they want to make BG3, but WotC thankfully isn't budging. They should leave the BG series the **** alone, it's a finished deal.

 

Frankly the only content I liked from them is the NPC Baeloth in BG:EE, the rest is horrible. I haven't played BG2:EE, nor do I plan to(mod incompatibility), but I doubt that their writting improved.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Seari

[archangel979]

It did for the part I played. I took Neera and new NPC in my group and they are OK. BG2EE is on my secondary weak computer and I only play it on that one when I cannot access my main one so the campaign is going very slow.

 

But from that AMA, they seem almost sure they will get to do in future full D&D cRPGs.

[Shevek]

@Seari:

 

BG2:EE original content is so-so. The vampire NPC was pretty bad but the Wild Mage bits were ok. If they want a crack at BG3 or some such, let 'em. Maybe they can call it "BG: Something Something." Whatever they make would certainly be a more true successor than BG: Dark Alliance and the more of these kinds of games get made the better. 

 

As an aside, I am playing a bit of IWD:EE and its pretty good. The performance is much better and its nice to have all the kits/etc and the quick loot ui. You can even disable Sawyer's nerf of Cleric/Rangers just by editing the ini file. That being said, I am still upset that for 20 bucks they can't fix quick weapon slots so you can switch between dual wielding, sword and board and ranged weapon set ups.

[prodigydancer]

I don't see how it could be a spiritual successor to IE games without full (WYSIWYG) loot. The loot system is very important and I've had enough of random drops nonsense in D:OS. Leave random loot to ARPGs where it belongs, please.

[Shevek]

@prodigydancer:

 

IWD has semi-random loot (in chests, but you get my drift).

Edited November 25, 2014 by Shevek

[TheisEjsing]

I got Messerschmidt's Reaver from a bat in Diablo 1. That seemed pretty legit. Why keep immersion with boring +1 ****, when you can have epic loot.

[CaptainMace]

Although I'd prefer humanoids to drop what they use too, I would not mind if it wasn't the case. This kind of design choice seems easy to make but it actually concerns more than just the loot you get. It's a matter of game balance and character design. IE games gave me the sensation of a legit believable system because of this very feature, the fact any armor/weapon that any NPC uses is actually there, in his/her inventory, and dropped at death really reenforced immersion.
Since IE games were D&D adaptations, every creature/NPC had its own character sheet and inventory, so such a system made sense and you just had to put these items in his/her inventory. Another game design could make it a painful feature to realize though.

[Gairnulf]

The concept that enemies should only drop useful loot leads to the conclusion that any loot dropped is useful, which eliminates good uncertainty from the game. If I know any loot is usefult, I'll just vacuum all loot I come across without looking at it. I want to be curious when checking out loot - wil I find something useful, interesting, expensive, or not.

[Quantics]

I completely agree with this suggestion as well. 

Edited November 25, 2014 by Quantics

[Gairnulf]

The question of what and how much loot is dropped is connected to the item/weight limitations of the inventory. Since that system is in a messed up state, and we have a LIMITLESS inventory, it is only normal that the devs are trying to limit the loot that it's possible to vacuum from enemies in the first place, to prevent the natural practice of exploiting a badly concieved function such as a limitless inventory.

[Quadrone]

Normally I'd support WYSIWYG, but at this point and with how PoE handles loot, I don't know.

The economy would have to be heavily overhauled, killing any group of humanoids would always guarantee loads of cash in form of items.

This in turn seems to favour hoarders since with the stash feature "loot all" is the only logical option. You can't be encumbered and leaving stuff on the ground equals throwing away free money.

This might also require new loot placement when - for example - a group of bandits suddenly is actually worth more then what the chest they were guarding contains.

Lastly it might also affect encounters. The devs might have to reconsider if they really want the evil champion to be decked out in magical plate armor when, after the fight, it now will go right into the possession of your parties fighter. That might be a big power leap, so instead of facing you alone wearing plate he'd now have to wear leather and be accompanied by a couple monsters.

 

If PoE had been designed with WYSIWYG from the start most of this might not be much of a problem, I just fear that this change would be a lot of work so close to release.

[Gairnulf]

Th estrategy you describe would not be possible if there were limits to the inventory size. Even the way it is now, merchants have a fixed amount of cash, so you can't sell all the loot you vacuum off enemies.

[Sensuki]

The merchant cash limit is a dumb idea as well, particularly when you can just exit the building and go back in to reset it lmao

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I would like to get what I see very much. It worked really well in BG where you had to grab ammo where you could find it.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I would like to get what I see very much. It worked really well in BG where you had to grab ammo where you could find it.

Sorry. Arrows, bolts, bullets, etc, are endless in PoE. I was one of those people who wanted them to be finite, btw.

[Gairnulf]

The merchant cash limit is a dumb idea as well, particularly when you can just exit the building and go back in to reset it lmao

Lol, I didn't know that :D I thought it stupid enough that I can even see it, as if every merchant will show me exactly how much cash he has.

 

I would like to get what I see very much. It worked really well in BG where you had to grab ammo where you could find it.

Exactly!

 

 

I would like to get what I see very much. It worked really well in BG where you had to grab ammo where you could find it.

 

Sorry. Arrows, bolts, bullets, etc, are endless in PoE. I was one of those people who wanted them to be finite, btw.

Now infinite ammo is just horrible. What is this, Dragon Age?! Edited November 25, 2014 by Gairnulf

[Quadrone]

Th estrategy you describe would not be possible if there were limits to the inventory size. Even the way it is now, merchants have a fixed amount of cash, so you can't sell all the loot you vacuum off enemies.

 

But there is no such limit, thats why I'm pointing it out.

As long as everything automaticly goes to the stash, even with the limited trader cash, it still stands that hoarders can just go through all traders in town and come out with thousands of coppers and "free" rare items on top.

[Gairnulf]

 

Th estrategy you describe would not be possible if there were limits to the inventory size. Even the way it is now, merchants have a fixed amount of cash, so you can't sell all the loot you vacuum off enemies.

 

 

But there is no such limit, thats why I'm pointing it out.

As long as everything automaticly goes to the stash, even with the limited trader cash, it still stands that hoarders can just go through all traders in town and come out with thousands of coppers and "free" rare items on top.

I know what you mean. I wanted to point out how wrong it is to have infinite inventory.

[IndiraLightfoot]

This thread alone is a little showcase of a pretty big discrepancy between what really is featured in PoE and what some people assume is in PoE (often based on the IE games), and this really worries me, and it ought to worry Obsidian too. Imagine how many thousands of backers who aren't aware about endless stash, endless ammo, no combat xp, and so on. There will be plenty of unhappy faces come release day.

Edited November 25, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Clean&Clear]

 

 

Th estrategy you describe would not be possible if there were limits to the inventory size. Even the way it is now, merchants have a fixed amount of cash, so you can't sell all the loot you vacuum off enemies.

 

But there is no such limit, thats why I'm pointing it out.

As long as everything automaticly goes to the stash, even with the limited trader cash, it still stands that hoarders can just go through all traders in town and come out with thousands of coppers and "free" rare items on top.

I know what you mean. I wanted to point out how wrong it is to have infinite inventory.

 

 

The fact that the limitless stash is in right now doesn't mean it can't be changed before release.. And even if we all think it is not likely to happen, it doesn't mean we can't express our opinion and fight for it. For me personally it's one of the most disappointing design decisions in PoE. On top of that, absence of WYSIWYG loot and using some ARPG-like loot system sounds terrible.

 

Immersion is maybe an overused term on these forums but limitless stash accesible from anywhere (so Dimension door is actually present in PoE, but only works on items??) and absence of WYSIWYG loot is probably sitting on the top of my immersion killers list. :-/

[Lord Wafflebum]

Wow, so much hate for Bioware gamers.

 

I like this. I took great joy in murdering Flaming Fist soldiers for their sweet gear. I killed them because I wanted to be like them and have their stuff. I know Sensuki said he doesn't like the limited money pool of the merchants, but it seems like that would be a good way to keep the economy balanced? As per most of my remarks, that is based solely off a feeling and absolutely no data.

 

Also, I'm Commander Shepherd and this is my favorite thread on the Citadel.

[Shevek]

Gairnulf:

I dont mind the endless regular ammo but I do wish we could equip limited stacks of special arrows (fire, poison, dispelling, frost, etc).

[YunikoYokai5]

I'm just going to throw in my two cents here. 

 

From what I have been able to understand from everything that has been said, all I have to say is that I would be very happy with a mixture of 

 

I want what Sensuki says but with a bit of a twist. During mortal combat items get destroyed so I want WYSIWYG to determine base list of items and then a roll to see what items survived combat. Armors and shields should have least chance to survive fights while items like rings, amulets should have greatest.

 

and

 

archangel979: That is a pretty neat idea! I like it. And I'd like to add to that cool idea: If you have more of some skill like Lore or a higher stat, say Perception, you get slightly better rolls for good items to survive or be found/noticed.

 

Personally, if you are fighting someone, obviously you are going to damage - or even destroy if you wail on it enough - items in the process, as such, while the weapon is salvageable, it is damaged and would need repair. I can understand why some people want the exact same armour and weapons that people are dropping - it is very nice from my experience of WYSIWYG loot systems - but I'm on the fence. It may be because I am used to sparse/random loot systems like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Final Fantasy etc instead of systems like BG (which I am playing just now) or even Skyrim.

 

Personally, if they were going to do a drop everything style of loot, I would prefer they put a limit on the stash (either x number of spaces or based on your strength stat) and introduce an item weight system like BG (where the strength stat determines how much you can carry) and Skyrim has. It means you have to prioritise items when looting (most power/worth the most) and maybe make you consider running back and picking up the rest later if you ran out of space (as I have done several times in Skyrim). I was never keen on an infinite stash, as much as I would love it to grab everything I can carry and sell as much crap as I can later on. Unless you have a magical black hole bag that can cough out everything, I don't think you could carry 15 full suits of armour after a raid on some bandits or something. 

 

Just my opinion coming from a new player to isometric/IE style RPGs. I expect a lot of people won't like or agree with it though. 

 

(I also think merchants should have limited gold on them. But that might just be because I believe they have learned to keep only a certain amount on them since I keep pickpocketing their pockets for everything they are worth in Skyrim...)

Edited November 25, 2014 by YunikoYokai5

[Gfted1]

Immersion is maybe an overused term on these forums but limitless stash accesible from anywhere (so Dimension door is actually present in PoE, but only works on items??) and absence of WYSIWYG loot is probably sitting on the top of my immersion killers list. :-/

Afaik, the stash is only accessible while resting (Inn, camping).

[Shevek]

In all fairness, BG2 had a defacto infini-inventory once you started getting gem bags, potion cases, ammo bags, scroll cases and (especially) bags of holding. And you use those whenever and wherever.