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Sensuki

What You See Is What You Get Loot System

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-Even less rewarding encounters- we don't have 'kill XP', now we also don't have meaningful loot ! 'Trash' encounters have one less reason of existence.

 

 

This is a major concern for a game that is largely about combat. There is a very real risk that combat, with all its work hours, systems, mechanisms, abilities, spell vfx etc behind it, will become boring with once's you've done it a few times if it is equally meaningful to circumvent it to get on with the story. Interesting and/or exciting loot certainly can make up for a lack of combat xp in this regard.

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If they do this, they will either need to rebalance sell prices so the PC isnt swimming in cash from selling fine items or ensure the npcs drop mostly crap versions of the gear. If enemies drop mostly crap versions of gear, looting will become a chore. It was easy in the IE games to differentiate between the magic stuff that was worth using/selling but in PoE not so much. I always end up grabbing everything and dumping it in the stash. This may end up cluttering that up a bit with items of various quality. Selling will suck...

 

Also, as an aside, even with the quick loot ui from the EE versions, I am finding looting downed enemies in IWD to be kinda cumbersome. The PoE loot ui is less easy to navigate...

 

I must say, they can have OK WYSIWYG loot if they have really clear icons that show which items are regular crap and which ones are worth it. It would also be nice if items could be taggable as junk (ala WL2) and all regular gear got tagged automatically as such. If they had that and a one click sell all junk button at stores, that would make a WYSIWYG system more attractive.

 

To do this right would take a while. Would it be worth it?

I think they need to lower the prices plate mail in BG1 was about 700 Gp plat mail in POE is like 2000 or somthing like that some crazy amount.

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I think they need to lower the prices plate mail in BG1 was about 700 Gp plat mail in POE is like 2000 or somthing like that some crazy amount.

 

 

I dont know how much a gp is, but shouldn't a plate mail be crazy expensive? Beyond making sense (i.e. "realism") it also increases the reward-feeling once you get a hold of one, making them cooler, rarer and more powerful. 

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I don't think the cost of objects needs to match Baldurs Gate ctn2003. Black Isle had the prices from the AD&D Players handbook they had to go by. (Due to pre-existing rule precedence.) The developers will have a better idea of the local technology levels and availability/cost of high grade armour and weapons. (Not only that they should have a better idea of player wealth by level to help price superior items)

 

  Additionally the game uses multiple forms of currency, so unlike AD&D with it's standard 1gp=10sp=100cp; the cost of 600gp Plate Mail is 60,000cp. Full Plate costs 2000 cp - (copper pands) in the Beta; coins are based on the metal content(like a trade good) like Real life(medieval) currency. Frankly it's one of the better things I liked about Mr. Sawyers world building, in Pen&Paper the use of multiple 10 currency, plus lack of exchange rates - is used to make the game simpler and require less math. WIth a PC game first (no base on previous Pen&Paper mythos) the computer does all the work, so why not use a realistic coinage system that is messy like real life currencies are.

 

(For instance the same Plate Mail would cost 1000 Copper Áilds used by the Glanfalthans, or 333 and 1/3 Silver Fennings used by the Aedyr Empire. IF bought off the same retailer without exchange rates.)

Edited by W.MacKinnon
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Thinking back over the various CRPGs I have played over the years I would vote for WYSIWYG loot system.  

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 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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NPCs should drop the items they're using but should be cheap enough (e.g.  destroyed status) on the market that the player would not bother with the effort to gather them all and exploit this for an easy income. And if a masochist player would choose to sell them all, there should be a diminishing return in regards to selling if he floods the market of a certain item.

On very rare occasion an item would drop unscathed for the player to have an incentive to check out the loot. Special magical or unique items/weapon/armor would always drop intact from special NPCs but they should be pretty rare in the game world.


  After my realization that White March has the same XP reward problem, I don't even have the drive to launch game anymore because I hated so much reaching Twin Elms with a level cap in vanilla PoE that I don't wish to relive that experience.

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No matter what inventory  system they use someone will be unhappy. After playing TES games for roughly seven years all I want is some decent loot from the start.  The junk can be ignored.   A place to stash things I want to keep and ideally for me a way to display some of the items.   However in my opinion inventory is not what makes for a good game other things are more important and I want to play this game before Christmas 2015

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 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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Just a small question: Why is anyone interested in collecting crap?

 

I mean, why does every enemy have to drop loot?

 

It is actually easy to justify why you would not pick that crap up, as you are under tension, being pursued, have limited carrying capacity and don't care. This way only special loot needs to be dropped/present thus negating the entire problem. 

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"The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."

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Every enemy who wears clothes should drop something imo.


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Pretty much all critters that are wielding weapons and wearing armor that could be of use to the players should be dropping those items.  I know there are enemies in the BB and the game in general that don't drop their gear right now, but they are supposed to and our area designers are making a pass to ensure that.

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Pretty much all critters that are wielding weapons and wearing armor that could be of use to the players should be dropping those items.  I know there are enemies in the BB and the game in general that don't drop their gear right now, but they are supposed to and our area designers are making a pass to ensure that.

That's reassuring news :)

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It's a shame you don't have a system that automatically drops equipped items, that would have saved a lot of design hours probably.

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We do have such a system, but the prefabs still need to be marked to do it.  Creatures like beetles and wolves don't get marked that way because they aren't going to drop their critter weapons, just pelts, shells, etc.

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Ahh right. I assume it would be done by assigning the prefab GUID to the Creature script in the Unity Inspector or something yeah?

 

Those files haven't been packaged externally as of yet, so I haven't had a look at how it's done.

Edited by Sensuki
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There is a Loot script component that gets attached to the creature prefab.  It has a flag "Drop Inventory" and another "Drop Equipment".  The former drops whatever is in the Inventory component.  The latter drops whatever is in their equipped slots (Equipment component).  You can also specify a loot list on the Loot component.  Really we can use any/all of those fields/flags as we see fit, so it's not too time-consuming to change.

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Cool, that's handy. Shouldn't be a problem then. Do you know if those files are going to be packaged as .unity3d files eventually like items/abilities/talents etc currently are?

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Every enemy who wears clothes should drop something imo.

Dirty laundry. 

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"The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."

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We do have such a system, but the prefabs still need to be marked to do it.  Creatures like beetles and wolves don't get marked that way because they aren't going to drop their critter weapons, just pelts, shells, etc.

 

I like to think that a quick/automatic way to save time, if it was possible to know that a prefab is some sort of humanoid, would be "humanoids drop whatever they have, whereas anything else do not". Of course this would prevent edge cases where we want non-humanoid creatures to drop loot, such as "epic sharp hippo tooth" or "legendary armor of the beetle king". 

Edited by Rumsteak

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... If I kill some guy equipped with Exceptional Armor, I want to be able to loot that Exceptional Armor. If the designers don't want me to get Exceptional Armor from a mook, they shouldn't equip him with Exceptional Armor....

 

 Exactly. I want to be able to loot the gear that the enemies were actually using. 

 

(I mean if they're going to go out dressed like that, they were asking for it. Amirite??) 

 

haha why have them looken good when i can look good!

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There is a Loot script component that gets attached to the creature prefab.  It has a flag "Drop Inventory" and another "Drop Equipment".  The former drops whatever is in the Inventory component.  The latter drops whatever is in their equipped slots (Equipment component).  You can also specify a loot list on the Loot component.  Really we can use any/all of those fields/flags as we see fit, so it's not too time-consuming to change.

So it's like randomly generated items in icewind dale? But not random? their just really long list's? :p

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I want what Sensuki says but with a bit of a twist. During mortal combat items get destroyed so I want WYSIWYG to determine base list of items and then a roll to see what items survived combat. Armors and shields should have least chance to survive fights while items like rings, amulets should have greatest.

Late to this thread, but I like this idea.  Crits against items could reduce their quality or damage them, or both over time (more crits, more damage).  Repair of items would be a useful thing in terms of the game.  This has probably been kicked around before though.  I'm not a big fan of Monty Haul games, so I like to have many options for the player to spend their money (a poor player is a motivated player).

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  I agree with Sensuki, dropped loot should match what the enemy was wearing/had equipped. In the old Baldurs Gate's and other Infinity engine games this was due to the game being based on a Pen&Paper game. If anyone has ever played one, players take everything and the kitchen sink when they loot.

 

  Heck if I could I'd loot the castles and temples I travel though in the game. Taking all the decorative painting, carpets, candlesticks, and statuettes that were present. (You know the pretty background stuff.) Heck even a large glowing stone pillar if I thought my character might meet someone to later sell it to. Especially the bodies of slain golems made of valuable materials, such as Adamantine ones. And to those who would say where would you put it, doesn't the player have a stronghold?  All the loot could be hauled to your headquarters via hirelings, your own muscles, and or beasts of burden pulling carts. The infinite stash is kind of a concession to this I imagine as recruiting hirelings/horse driven carts that carry loot to your stronghold is beyond the scope of the game. From a game perspective all this looting of ruins/etc would likely piss off the Glanfathans which would be entertaining to play through.

 

  Also I read someone mentioning, they don't want all the normal sword, or leather armour loot, rather only the +1 or what have you mentionable stuff. Well here's the kicker, collecting all the regular gear and selling it allows you have the coin necessary to buy the magical equipment offered in the Inns or what have you.

Yes, this was very true of Pen and Paper.  Often as a DM, I would place far more treasure than the group was capable of taking for that very reason.  On return to more, they might run into another encounter of scavengers or bandits or an entire village there picking over the rest.

 

I enjoyed that aspect of BG.  I also think that anything 'unlimited' WRT (with respect to) inventory is cheesy.  Players in table top would often want to scrounge ammo that was fired at them during the melee as their arrow supply would dwindle over time in play.  Arrows are fragile things.  Having unlimited numbers of them is quite silly, imo.

 

If those players that don't want to be bothered with this, don't loot the bodies or don't pick up what you don't want to take.  No reason why those that enjoy WYSIWYG cannot have that aspect of the game.  Those that do not enjoy it can simply not take the items.

 

Those that want an unlimited inventory ... perhaps that could be a game option you check before playing?

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Pretty much all critters that are wielding weapons and wearing armor that could be of use to the players should be dropping those items.  I know there are enemies in the BB and the game in general that don't drop their gear right now, but they are supposed to and our area designers are making a pass to ensure that.

 

Great news!

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