The Ebola Threat

[Valsuelm]

You see if I was an African living in one of those countries I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth

 

But to be fair the criticism was from some  South Africans towards the USA on the talk show. Its easy to criticise the USA for there efforts when you are living in an Ebola free country like South Africa that has fairly decent healthcare infrastructure. But I doubt any people from the 5 affected countries are questioning the USA motives

 

 

If you were African and living in one of those countries you might not be so blind to imperialism that they've been subjected to again and again, and think instead it's somehow lofty goodly well intentioned people doing pure goodness out of the kindness of their hearts. While you might get some volunteers that indeed are legitimately wanting to save some people, nations don't operate that way, they just say they do to get folks like yourself to hop on the imperialist bandwagon that's painted with 'humanitarian' colors. The CDC in the U.S. is a pretty dirty organization, and the few thousand boots on the ground aren't there to save lives, they're there for the same reason they've been there in the past: to rape the area of it's resources, oil and other.

 

Yes, there indeed are people in those nations who doubt the intentions of the U.S. and lots of them. They would like the foreigners to gtfo, including those who say they are there to help. You can even see evidence of that in many interviews done with the well intentioned volunteers there (if you watched them). Not everyone is ignorant of history, especially the history of their own back yard, or one that includes the deaths and murders of friends and family.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

If anyone else gets it, our government will be guilty of attempted murder or actual murder.

Not at all. It would be a case of incompetence; not murder. Failing to save some one is not murder.

 

If you have the ability to save someone an intentionally choose not to, than yes it is murder.

 

Btw, the deputy who was hospitalized yesterday was tested and is OK.

 

 

Under that line of thinking, we should be sending all resources available to Africa in order to help people, given our advanced treatment capabilities.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Sure, who's going to volunteer though, we're not obligated to put ourselves in danger. Also it works a little different with your own citizens than with another country, else we'd be responsible for fixing all the world's ills.

[Namutree]

 

 

If anyone else gets it, our government will be guilty of attempted murder or actual murder.

Not at all. It would be a case of incompetence; not murder. Failing to save some one is not murder.

 

If you have the ability to save someone an intentionally choose not to, than yes it is murder.

 

Btw, the deputy who was hospitalized yesterday was tested and is OK.

 

A) You incorrectly assume the government is competent enough to consistently handle things correctly. They're not. They're idiots, not murderers. 

 

B) Murder isn't not saving people. It's only murder is YOU are the cause of their death, and you killed them deliberately. Unless the government gave them ebola; the government didn't kill them. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

[Tale]

If you have the ability to save someone an intentionally choose not to, than yes it is murder.

I'll remember that if I ever see you in a climate change thread.

[DarthDeven]

i'm really concerned about it,it would be a disaster if it spreads even more
it's not to be underestimated,it would be a big mistake
fortunately there are no cases in my country,but if they fail to keep the quarantine,it would be catastrophic
honestly i think that Ebola is going to be stopped before it will reach us,but who knows what's going to happen
i just hope they apply security high enough
 

[Woldan]

Its way too late to stop it with sloppy quarantines, experts said a spread in Europe is inevitable, if its not happening already. Whats going to be fun is that the annual flu epidemic is inbound, hysterical people with the flu will think they have contracted Ebola and vice versa, also the immune system of many people will compromised from it.  Hospitals will have to deal with a lot of chaos. 

[Valsuelm]

Its way too late to stop it with sloppy quarantines, experts said a spread in Europe is inevitable.

 

Yea.. they said the same thing for the U.S. too. And they said it about the Swine Flu, Bird Flu, SARS, et al.

 

Experts, on this topic and others, are generally full of sh*t.

 

Not to say we might not one day (and perhaps sooner than later given how increasingly unhealthy so many in this world are, as well as how chomping at the bit the technocrat eugenicist elites are that run half or more of this world are to see a large chunk of humanity die) see a real pandemic, for anyone paying attention, the 'experts' became the boy who cried wolf some time ago.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Walsingham]

ROFL the old 'experts are full of crap' line. But YOU'VE got the skinny, right?

[Zoraptor]

'Experts' haven't had a great record with the previous scares. There certainly will be another Spanish Flu type event at some stage, and even another Black Death is probably inevitable long term as well, especially if we keep on abusing antibiotics ridiculously. Ebola, as it stands, simply isn't infective enough to be either though. You still have a miniscule proportion of the population in west Africa infected even though they have very poor health care systems and Ebola has been present for months, a few thousand deaths in an area with 100s of millions of population is not going to destroy civilisation, western or otherwise.

 

There are three reasons why you end up with hysteria, it is in some people's best interests, bad news gets reported so you tend to hear from experts with strongly negative views rather than those who are more measured, and there is the potential for a genuine game changing epidemic from something which kills around half of those infected and for which there is no confirmed effective and no mass producible cure. The last two are strongly related, if you have someone say that there is little cause for concern at present, but there will be if Ebola goes airborne it tends to be the last bit rather than the first that gets the major coverage and attention.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Its way too late to stop it with sloppy quarantines, experts said a spread in Europe is inevitable, if its not happening already. Whats going to be fun is that the annual flu epidemic is inbound, hysterical people with the flu will think they have contracted Ebola and vice versa, also the immune system of many people will compromised from it.  Hospitals will have to deal with a lot of chaos.

It's inevitable because of the refusal to quarantine the countries affected, and the studies said so.

[Walsingham]

'Experts' haven't had a great record with the previous scares. There certainly will be another Spanish Flu type event at some stage, and even another Black Death is probably inevitable long term as well, especially if we keep on abusing antibiotics ridiculously. Ebola, as it stands, simply isn't infective enough to be either though. You still have a miniscule proportion of the population in west Africa infected even though they have very poor health care systems and Ebola has been present for months, a few thousand deaths in an area with 100s of millions of population is not going to destroy civilisation, western or otherwise.

 

There are three reasons why you end up with hysteria, it is in some people's best interests, bad news gets reported so you tend to hear from experts with strongly negative views rather than those who are more measured, and there is the potential for a genuine game changing epidemic from something which kills around half of those infected and for which there is no confirmed effective and no mass producible cure. The last two are strongly related, if you have someone say that there is little cause for concern at present, but there will be if Ebola goes airborne it tends to be the last bit rather than the first that gets the major coverage and attention.

 

I agree with your overall point. a pandemic that kills millions is the real concern. But I don't think it's sensible to write off ebola just yet. It isn't remotely contained, so while it has only killed a few thousand, it ain't even the end of the beginning.

 

A lack of consensus between experts doesn't mean you shouldn't pay attention to professionals. It just means to have to consider and judge their arguments. And not simply pick the one which feels sexiest.

 

Another aspect of being a grown up is to make a small effort to look to your own protection in the event of a civil emergency. Don't go nuts, just stock enough food to ride out restricted travel and food shortages. Not everyone is going to do this, so many people will freak out. But you don't have to be part of the problem.

[Walsingham]

UK Govt paper on an influenza pandemic. Not too stodgy. Interesting reading.

 

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/archives/london-prepared-London-Resilience-Pandemic-Influenza-Response-Plan-v5.pdf

 

In deference to WoD, note the predicted duration of a flu pandemic is 15 weeks, consisting of several waves. this does not mean - in my opinion - that anything less than 15 weeks food and supplies is irrelevant.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Walsingham

[Walsingham]

NHS guidance:

 

http://www.england.nhs.uk/ourwork/eprr/pi/

 

 

Information last updated: 28 August 2014

Pandemic Influenza remains the top risk for England and the UK

[Walsingham]

US guidelines on 'building a kit'.

 

http://www.ready.gov/build-a-kit

 

It really is just common sense in the event of even a power outage.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Walsingham

[Walsingham]

On a side note, why not encourage your neighbours to buy kits? Then if they die of flu you can have their food!

[Namutree]

Having an emergency stash of food is always wise. I myself have good amount of food, water, and medical supplies stored in case it is ever needed.

[Woldan]

I have food supplies that would last me approx 3 weeks, also I have my own freshwater well, but my supplies are currently at an all time low and I really need to restock soon.
Also having rifles is nice, what good are supplies if you cannot defend them against thieving hordes that did not stock on water and food?

[Wrath of Dagon]

'Experts' haven't had a great record with the previous scares. There certainly will be another Spanish Flu type event at some stage, and even another Black Death is probably inevitable long term as well, especially if we keep on abusing antibiotics ridiculously. Ebola, as it stands, simply isn't infective enough to be either though. You still have a miniscule proportion of the population in west Africa infected even though they have very poor health care systems and Ebola has been present for months, a few thousand deaths in an area with 100s of millions of population is not going to destroy civilisation, western or otherwise.

It's doubling every month, what's 2 to the power of 12? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/11/world/africa/officials-admit-a-defeat-by-ebola-in-sierra-leone.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=0 Edit: The reason it seems to start slowly is because it has a long incubation period, during which the victim is supposedly not infectious. But in the long run that's irrelevant, unless the re-infection rate is brought to below 1. Edited October 11, 2014 by Wrath of Dagon

[Zoraptor]

(Slow) exponential growth is a concern for Africa, but not for western countries. See the 15 week span for a (airborne transmission) flu pandemic, this Ebola outbreak has been going since March so is already twice as long as that projection and has infected 'only' thousands despite the poor healthcare in the effected countries. Having a slow transmission rate it is very susceptible to plain old quarantine, you are not going to get thousands infected as a single flu patient zero could easily do.

[Valsuelm]

 this Ebola outbreak has been going since March

 

December.

[Zoraptor]

Yep my bad, March was when it was acknowledged but it did actually start in December. 

[Wrath of Dagon]

(Slow) exponential growth is a concern for Africa, but not for western countries. See the 15 week span for a (airborne transmission) flu pandemic, this Ebola outbreak has been going since March so is already twice as long as that projection and has infected 'only' thousands despite the poor healthcare in the effected countries. Having a slow transmission rate it is very susceptible to plain old quarantine, you are not going to get thousands infected as a single flu patient zero could easily do.

The transmission is relatively slow, but by the same token you don't know who to quarantine until they start showing symptoms, at which point they also become infectious. A small outbreak can be contained by contact tracing, but if it ever becomes too large it'll be impossible to track all the contacts, and then it becomes an epidemic.

[Walsingham]

Thankfully not everything that could be a disaster becomes a disaster.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Well, we got the first transmission in the US. Thanks Obola, you degenerate cretin.