Combat XP - What Just Happened..?

[Immortalis]

So half the forum wanted Combat XP / Objective XP for doing things besides quests that were challenging so they didn't feel exhausted or unstimulated by large amounts of trash mobs while exploring the world outside of questing.

 

The other half of the forum wanted Quest Driven XP so that progression was not based on how many things you killed but just followed the pacing of the game and you would be equally rewarded no matter how you solved objectives.

 

There are a few other people who want to be snowflakes and will say they had some special middle ground.. nobody cares.

 

=========

After 6ish Capped threads at 500 posts.. and several polls..

 

Adding in minor bestiary, exploration, lock, and trap XP rewards to increase the regularity of XP rewards across the game.

 

Josh's solution is rewarding Xp for opening locks and disabling traps.. the one thing from Baldurs Gate 2 nobody wanted to see make a return.

 

What the hell just happened?

Edited October 6, 2014 by Immortalis

[Namutree]

He's throwing out ideas and seeing what sticks.

 

Just stick with exploration.

[Hormalakh]

he's trying really hard to come up with a reason for players to get the "lore skill." still near worthless value.

[AlekzanderZ]

I voted for all of them.

[Cantousent]

Who the hell you calln' a snowflake, boney?

 

Anyhow, I think throwing out the whole lock/trap thing is truly moronic.  I mean, at some point, you have to wonder why they're going to include XP for every incidental type of activity *except* for combat.  If I didn't know better, I'd think it's almost like they're giving a big middle finger to the folks who're really invested in it.  I'd be grabbing a pitchfork and fiery brand and joining the rest of the villagers if I'd been in that camp.

[Immortalis]

I would argue this is one of the most unbiased polls so far.

 

Take notes.

[redneckdevil]

Im gonna say first off, finally a decent poll.

i voted quests, quest section, exploration, and special boss/scenarios.

im still iffy about exploration and i may delete it because i really cant thinknof a reason for it to be there of u are gonna be rewarded with special boss/scenario and/or loot so i think i will delete that.

traps/lockpicking...no. as much as i am enjoying no combat exp in this game, i think trap/lock exp would be totally worse. Because then u feel "cheated" if u unlock/disabled it instead of using it against ya or feel compelled to have someone specced in that for the sole reason of that extra exp. Basically same boat if not worse than combat exp imho.

[Immortalis]

Im gonna say first off, finally a decent poll.

 

Thanks.. I agree.. With this part.. not the rest.. Combat XP is obviously the best choice.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Voted options 2,3,5, and 6 cause I that's how I run PnP games.

[Immortalis]

Voted options 2,3,5, and 6 cause I that's how I run PnP games.

 

You run a Bestiary in your PnP games? Common..

[Matt516]

Let's hope this poll gets tons of votes - it's probably the best one yet.

[Cantousent]

Read your own poll you onery bastard!

[Immortalis]

Read your own poll you onery bastard!

 

I'm just having some fun.

[Namutree]

Voted options 2,3,5, and 6 cause I that's how I run PnP games.

I voted the same.

[curryinahurry]

Voted 2,3,5.  6 sounds good but is redundant with either 3 or 5 so it really shouldn't even be an option if the designers are setting up any of the other 2 correctly.  The fact is, all obsidian has to do beyond making quests a bit more granular is tie modest xp rewards to all of the scripted sequences, thus rewarding exploration.  All of the lockpicking, bestiary stuff is a silly give away and serves no purpose.

[Namutree]

Voted 2,3,5.  6 sounds good but is redundant with either 3 or 5 so it really shouldn't even be an option if the designers are setting up any of the other 2 correctly.  The fact is, all obsidian has to do beyond making quests a bit more granular is tie modest xp rewards to all of the scripted sequences, thus rewarding exploration.  All of the lockpicking, bestiary stuff is a silly give away and serves no purpose.

So in the case of 6; why would it matter if 3 or 5 are done correctly? The Spider Queen is a special battle that has nothing to do with any quests.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Namutree

[curryinahurry]

Incomplete beta isn't a good indicator of how certain things like the Spider Queen would be handled in the final game...all the designers need to insert is a rumor about a spider infestation, have a scripted interaction in the area of the Queen's lair, and poof!  exploration experience!  

 

My point is that almost any unique monster battle can be handled this way, or through sidequests.  It makes for a clear system for xp rewards and less ad hoc figuring for the designers...which was a lot of the reason for going to quest xp system.

 

One thing I would like to see implemented int his game is a rumor system associated with merchants, tavern, npc's etc....They have the seeds of this with the Bandits on the road stuff you get from Hendyna.  All Obsidian needs to do is add a rumors tab under quests and tasks, and if the rumor is true, then tracking down its source  (like the spider queen example) would yield an xp reward...if not, it stays as a rumor in your journal.

[Cantousent]

On the flip side, if the player hasn't heard the rumor previously, the PC could himself be the source of a rumor that he can spread, recording the encounter in his journal and spreading his account of the encounter to others.  Makes the PC's place in the world a little more dynamic and that would *really* be exploration.  Hell, if the player finds ol' Spidey Mommy before he hears a rumor, or better yet, there isn't even a rumor worth spreading before he meets her, then he's not just chasing after what others have said.  He's searching out new things for himself.  He could even make it a five year mission.  Whether he actually spreads the rumor or just keeps it to himself would be *his* choice.  Write a ballad of your own exploits, have it commissioned, or simply leave it all in the dark cave where you fought her.  ...And some encounters might entice the player to do something shameful or illegal and he would go to great lengths to hide his activities.

[Sensuki]

Lock and Trap XP is retarded, and Lore is worthless (in combat).

Edited October 7, 2014 by Sensuki

[curryinahurry]

@ Cantousent

 

Either way, it can be handled via scripted interaction.  The rumor system serves as a departure point, but any actual interaction occurs at the point of the activity/encounter.  It also makes getting past obstacles like the Dragon Egg or The Skaen Cultist Ravine part of a parallel exploration system.

 

BTW, if you found the Spider Queen just through spelunking and killed her, you would no longer be spreading a rumor as much as spreading the tale of your party's own adventures.

Edited October 7, 2014 by curryinahurry

[IndiraLightfoot]

I see no problem in voting yes to all of them, but I miss one of the presumtptions about the xp system before it became clear that "objective xp" meant "quest xp only", and it was my favourite:

Per encounter xp!

 

Every time you kill a bunch of critters OR manage to sneak by them undetected once (all the way, not just a few of them), then you get a bit of xp.

That would have been interesting, and also, give loot to the killers, and potential loot for pickpocket freaks.

 

EDIT: And if you once have snuck by them ,then you wont get xp for killing them afterwards, obviously.

Edited October 7, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Cantousent]

I get you, Curry, and that's really the point.  I've never really thought that it should be a question of quest or kill XP.  I continue to believe that XP should be awarded for achieving objectives and better results should yield better rewards.  Essentially, I like 'quest' XP just fine as long as it's sufficiently broad to cover more things than just 'talk to the farmer, kill the ogre, and return to the farmer.'  I also don't mind some objectives or 'quests' being combat centric or even exclusive to combat.  I mean, I'd like to see a fair sprinkling of 'quests' that can only be accomplished by certain approaches.  I think the beastiary idea is a pretty shoddy attempt to placate folks, but since it has actually worked to placate a lot of folks, I guess it does what it needs to do.  I'd rather have some objectives with real meat on their bones that net XP for combat people.  Put in some stuff in there for smooth talkers, cheats, and sneaks also.

 

EDIT:  Damn it.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Cantousent

[Hiro Protagonist II]

The Bestiary pages is a shoddy attempt at combat xp. If it takes five spiders to kill to receive a page of that spider and there's still another 6 spiders in the dungeon, then I'm going to leave those 6 spiders. I received my xp reward, time to move on.

[archangel979]

I clicked on all options. I want as many sources of XP as possible :D

Does that make me that special snowflake?

[Namutree]

The Bestiary pages is a shoddy attempt at combat xp. If it takes five spiders to kill to receive a page of that spider and there's still another 6 spiders in the dungeon, then I'm going to leave those 6 spiders. I received my xp reward, time to move on.

It has some advantages over kill-xp; assuming game balance is a major design goal. For example:

 

With kill-xp one could grind on enemies until the player is a really high level; making most of the game super easy. With the beastiary system you can get some xp, but not enough to break the first half of the game.