Drama in indy gaming and games journalism

[HoonDing]

Kobani is falling. GG won.

 

[Elerond]

 

One thing that I would like to see in gaming press is that they would establish The Good Journalistic guidelines and found self-regulatory organ that would seek that press follows those guidelines. Similar model that for example Finnish and other Nordic countries presses use instead of purely market driven regulation, but as most of gaming press is US based I don't see that such thing could ever become industry wide thing, as US press is very vehemently against any sort regulation, even voluntary one done by press themselves.

But isn't half of gamergate opposition exactly against this?

It seems to me that since journalists chose solidarity over competition then they would naturally reject any attempts of outside control.

 

 

Self-regulating bodies aren't about competition but tool to keep hold on ethics even highly competitive environment. 

 

Current model for most of the publications is that it is for consumers and advertisers to decide if content is ethical enough for them.

 

In self-regulation model there is body that customers and other publications can complain that one or more publications have broken ethical standards that members of that self-regulating body have promised to uphold and then that body checks if that is case and if they fine that publication has broken those standards it gives that publication fine and that publication has to print out article of the breach that it has done.

 

In market regulating model there is no general ethical standards that publications have promised to hold, but instead it assumes that consumers will abandon those publications that don't follow ethical code that their consumers want them to follow and that advertisers go where consumers go. 

 

I don't have even tiniest clue what gaming press especially in US thinks about self-regulation model and consistent ethical standards for all the publications. But even though self-regulation model don't stop market regulation model from working as well, it don't stop many people especially members of press from thinking that all kinds of regulation of press is threat for freedom of press/speech, but I think Finnish self-regulation model works quite (but I am not member of press and I don't have close ties to any member of press so I can only judge from consumer's point of view) well and it has not stopped Finnish press' freedom to been ranked, by members of press, having highest levels of freedom of press in the World.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Elerond

[Meshugger]

http://jonstonechannel2.tumblr.com/post/99246356388/why-bother-with-gamergate

 

#Gamergate explained from point of view of its opposition.

 

Meh, could've been muuuuch better, but instead it barely touched the surface. I wasn't even sure if the author saw anything wrong with the industry as it is.

[Elerond]

 

http://jonstonechannel2.tumblr.com/post/99246356388/why-bother-with-gamergate

 

#Gamergate explained from point of view of its opposition.

 

Meh, could've been muuuuch better, but instead it barely touched the surface. I wasn't even sure if the author saw anything wrong with the industry as it is.

 

 

I would guess basin on his writing that he is mostly contend with current status quo, particularly because his confirmation bias (jumps to conclusions) seems to favor current standing instead of movement asking change.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Elerond

[Oerwinde]

In regards to harassment within GamerGate, there are essentially two options, harrass the harrassers, which is hypocrical, or attempt to censor them, ehich is against one of the fundamental issues of GamerGate.

[Volourn]

"Typical Finnish response, totally out of touch with reality "

 

Wow. Look at that bigotry.

[BruceVC]

"Typical Finnish response, totally out of touch with reality "

 

Wow. Look at that bigotry.

 

Volo that is very nasty, I was only joking

[Orogun01]

 

 

http://jonstonechannel2.tumblr.com/post/99246356388/why-bother-with-gamergate

 

#Gamergate explained from point of view of its opposition.

 

Meh, could've been muuuuch better, but instead it barely touched the surface. I wasn't even sure if the author saw anything wrong with the industry as it is.

 

 

I would guess basin on his writing that he is mostly contend with current status quo, particularly because his confirmation bias (jumps to conclusions) seems to favor current standing instead of movement asking change.

 

Nonsense, just because a man wades through thousands of tweets, researches key figures in movement and the records of a conflict that's slowly approaching War and Peace in length just so he can discredit it, doesn't mean that he's biased 

[Longknife]

http://jonstonechannel2.tumblr.com/post/99246356388/why-bother-with-gamergate

 

#Gamergate explained from point of view of its opposition.

 

"Say that it began as a harassment campaign targeting a female indie developer, as reported by credible news sites"

 

 

And that's where I stopped reading.

[Elerond]

You can't claim (or more accurately you can but I would say that you don't actually mean what you claim) to want objective view of things if you don't read opinions from people that hold views that oppose those that you hold.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Elerond

[Bryy]

 

http://jonstonechannel2.tumblr.com/post/99246356388/why-bother-with-gamergate

 

#Gamergate explained from point of view of its opposition.

 

"Say that it began as a harassment campaign targeting a female indie developer, as reported by credible news sites"

 

 

And that's where I stopped reading.

 

Why?

 

Because it's been pretty well documented that it was.

[Malcador]

Greg Tito was funny today, acting sad and upset over people wanting Alexander fired or squeezing Gamasutra's income.

[Orogun01]

Greg Tito was funny today, acting sad and upset over people wanting Alexander fired or squeezing Gamasutra's income.

I understand that he's close to some of these people and that he may fear that GG will set a precedent to revolt every time we don't get our way (Highly unlikely) But when a group of people declare you dead and begin to speak for you there is little room for compromise. The reason why GG is targeting sites is because they've become havens for the people that are striking against gamers.

 

If indeed GG has it wrong and are wrongfully targeting a journalist then conversation might clear that up and if the site has any common sense they will rid themselves of these toxic journalists.

[Volourn]

Not to mention calling all gamers white male rapists and comparing them to ISIS who brag and show off cutting off people's heads not to mention that ISIS actually does go around raping women and men. Oh yeah, I forgot, SJWs feminists don't believe men can be raped. L0L

[Longknife]

You can't claim (or more accurately you can but I would say that you don't actually mean what you claim) to want objective view of things if you don't read opinions from people that hold views that oppose those that you hold.

  I was joking dude.

 

 

 

 

http://jonstonechannel2.tumblr.com/post/99246356388/why-bother-with-gamergate

 

#Gamergate explained from point of view of its opposition.

 

"Say that it began as a harassment campaign targeting a female indie developer, as reported by credible news sites"

And that's where I stopped reading.

Why?

 

Because it's been pretty well documented that it was.

Because it refers to websites like kotaku as "credible" and makes the argument all fallacy that the journalists must be right about things because they're journalists, when that clearly is NOT the case here. I'm not saying there weren't people who probably harassed her, but was she the main focus and interest? Are those websites truly credible? Hell no.

[kirottu]

An SJW speaks against abusive online SWJ culture:

http://theflounce.com/harassment-abuse-apologism-sanitizing-abuse-social-justice-spheres/

 

And because so many people equate actions with personal compassion, we begin to sanitize our community’s wrongdoings. We assume that anyone fighting the good fight can be given a little leeway for unhealthy actions. Who cares if a white male equates video gamers with “ISIS with Steam accounts?” Who cares if you call someone a “scummy neckbeard with Cheetos,” because the concerns behind those insults are all in good faith, huh? Who cares if a critically acclaimed writer tells a fan “I hope you die,” because, hey, they’re fighting the good fight – right? And if a powerful forum owner and feminist ally decides to enter the discussion, does it really matter if he openly mocks a non-feminist woman’s genitals? He simply meant to fight misogyny with misogyny, right?

...

This is not fighting the good fight. This is not positive. This is not liberation. This is oppressive. It promotes oppressive hegemonies that exist regardless of intent. It promotes online harassment, which is a form of abuse regardless of its motivation. Hateful vitriol can be weaponized against regressives in ways that are still hurtful. Abuse is abuse, regardless of whether loaded sociocultural dynamics further compound the abuse. You can defend intersectional feminism, and still do so in an inflammatory and inappropriate way. You do not get a free pass just because feminist liberation is a vital part of 21st century activism. Weaponizing oppression through harassment sets a hurtful precedent for our future activist spheres, because it actively sanitizes abuse in the eyes of the larger community. We must learn instead to view abuse and harassment as a serious concern in and of itself, which has no room in any social justice activist sphere.

Edited October 8, 2014 by kirottu

[BruceVC]

I don't understand why some of you guys get so offended by the characterization or generalizations about white, male gamers?

 

I am a white, male gamer and we are least most discriminated demographic in the world. We really aren't the victims of real bigotry in almost all cases. Who cares if someone associates us with ISIS, its an utterly pointless insult because its just not true. Its like someone calling me a pygmy child molester. I don't concern myself with things that aren't valid.

 

Why the outrage? Do you these insults really bother you

[kirottu]

I really don't understand how your brain works sometimes.

 

The act of harassment itself is bad. It doesn't matter if the harassed one can take it or not.

 

The act of harassment itself is bad. Why would it even matter if I haven't been harassed before as much as someone else?

 

If the news start to call you child molester you would be okay with it? Really? News sites control the narrative. They affect the public opinion. It's totally different than someone in some internet forum saying untrue things. Nobody is going to know of that guy anyway.

 

Edit: And why would my gender or skin color make more okay to be harassed? The more you post the more you're starting to prove Volourn right.

Edited October 8, 2014 by kirottu

[BruceVC]

I really don't understand how your brain works sometimes.

 

The act of harassment itself is bad. It doesn't matter if the harassed one can take it or not.

 

The act of harassment itself is bad. Why would it even matter if I haven't been harassed before as much as someone else?

 

If the news start to call you child molester you would be okay with it? Really? News sites control the narrative. They affect the public opinion. It's totally different than someone in some internet forum saying untrue things. Nobody is going to know of that guy anyway.

 

Edit: And why would my gender or skin color make more okay to be harassed? The more you post the more you're starting to prove Volourn right.

 

Okay so you genuinely feel harassed as a white, male gamer?

 

And just to be clear this harassment is coming from feminists and gaming journalists?

[Volourn]

"I don't understand why some of you guys get so offended by the characterization or generalizations about white, male gamers?"

 

I dunno. Maybe it's because I'm crazy. Maybe it's because thre is soemthing wrong with my brain. But, I just don't like being calla white male gamer rapist.

 

 

"And just to be clear this harassment is coming from feminists and gaming journalists?"
 

Well, they are accusing me of being a white male gamer rapist sexist so, yeah, very much so.

 

 

 

"we are least most discriminated demographic in the world. We really aren't the victims of real bigotry in almost all cases."

 

L0L This has been proven false so much i is ridiculous. repeating your bigoted brainwashed nonsense doesn't make it true.

[BruceVC]

"I don't understand why some of you guys get so offended by the characterization or generalizations about white, male gamers?"

 

I dunno. Maybe it's because I'm crazy. Maybe it's because thre is soemthing wrong with my brain. But, I just don't like being calla white male gamer rapist.

 

 

"And just to be clear this harassment is coming from feminists and gaming journalists?"

 

Well, they are accusing me of being a white male gamer rapist sexist so, yeah, very much so.

 

 

 

"we are least most discriminated demographic in the world. We really aren't the victims of real bigotry in almost all cases."

 

L0L This has been proven false so much i is ridiculous. repeating your bigoted brainwashed nonsense doesn't make it true.

 

Okay, that's fine. We will never agree on this point and  that's fine

 

We can agree to disagree

[Oerwinde]

I don't understand why some of you guys get so offended by the characterization or generalizations about white, male gamers?

 

I am a white, male gamer and we are least most discriminated demographic in the world. We really aren't the victims of real bigotry in almost all cases. Who cares if someone associates us with ISIS, its an utterly pointless insult because its just not true. Its like someone calling me a pygmy child molester. I don't concern myself with things that aren't valid.

 

Why the outrage? Do you these insults really bother you

 

I'm not a very social person, so I tend to socialize more online than anywhere else. This is my main hangout and though I don't post really frequently, I'm probably browsing the forums a couple hours a day. My other main hangouts are Kotaku and io9, and white males are the #1 discriminated group there, and the sick thing is its mostly white males that throw around the vitriol. I live in a city that has seen whites become a smaller and smaller portion of the population, with a larger and larger chinese population, and chinese are some of the most racist people in the world, especially against whites. They have chinese only malls, and its not considered racist, its considered "accommodating". The attitude towards racism against whites seems to be acceptance. And I don't know if its white guilt or whatever, but it seems like the ones who have the attitude that its somehow deserved due to top dog position of whites in history is ****ing white people. More and more we're being subtly told that we deserve to be treated like crap because our ancestors did it to others, and more and more white people are getting on board. I see more and more similarities to the Anders and  Haken in The Soul of the Fire all the time. White people are more and more feeling bad about being white, and its sick.

[Volourn]

I also don't get this 'whites ahve dominated history' when you have countries like China and India. Not to mention the entirety of the ME dominated by non whites. or the SA countries. Not to mention Japan, Koreas, etc., etc. Plenty of places where whites don't dominate. It just seemds like that whites 'dominate' because 'whites' are the creator of so called 'western culture'. (which many people hate for silly reasons).

[BruceVC]

 

I don't understand why some of you guys get so offended by the characterization or generalizations about white, male gamers?

 

I am a white, male gamer and we are least most discriminated demographic in the world. We really aren't the victims of real bigotry in almost all cases. Who cares if someone associates us with ISIS, its an utterly pointless insult because its just not true. Its like someone calling me a pygmy child molester. I don't concern myself with things that aren't valid.

 

Why the outrage? Do you these insults really bother you

 

I'm not a very social person, so I tend to socialize more online than anywhere else. This is my main hangout and though I don't post really frequently, I'm probably browsing the forums a couple hours a day. My other main hangouts are Kotaku and io9, and white males are the #1 discriminated group there, and the sick thing is its mostly white males that throw around the vitriol. I live in a city that has seen whites become a smaller and smaller portion of the population, with a larger and larger chinese population, and chinese are some of the most racist people in the world, especially against whites. They have chinese only malls, and its not considered racist, its considered "accommodating". The attitude towards racism against whites seems to be acceptance. And I don't know if its white guilt or whatever, but it seems like the ones who have the attitude that its somehow deserved due to top dog position of whites in history is ****ing white people. More and more we're being subtly told that we deserve to be treated like crap because our ancestors did it to others, and more and more white people are getting on board. I see more and more similarities to the Anders and  Haken in The Soul of the Fire all the time. White people are more and more feeling bad about being white, and its sick.

 

 

This is a very relevant post and is worth discussing further.

 

Are you saying that there are  Chinese malls in Canada  where white people aren't allowed to go to? If so this is completely unacceptable and I agree. I wonder if anyone else on these forums has similar experiences? In South Africa we are sensitive around racial harmony due to Apartheid, but I am opposed to reverse racism which is what many people say Affirmative Action and Black Economic Empowerment  (BEE) is. But in the South African context there is no place or area that white people can't go because its considered a black area only. So your experience around the Chinese is very interesting

[Oerwinde]

To clarify, the malls don't explicitly state chinese only, they are just designed specifically to exclude non-chinese. There is only chinese signage, they use only chinese text, no universal picture signage like mens/womens bathroom signs or anything, prices aren't marked with numbers, and the staff at all stores will only speak chinese even though most of them can speak english. A chinese friend admitted they are designed this way to discourage non-chinese from going because its illegal to outright say "chinese only"