The Beginning of the End of ISIS?

[BruceVC]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/22/world/meast/u-s-airstrikes-isis-syria/index.html

 

I thought this discussion deserved its own thread because its reached a melting point and for the first time since the campaign against ISIS began the USA has started bombing ISIS in Syria.

 

Several points that are worth discussing that include the fact Assad wasn't consulted so what will the Syrians response be? I don't think they will do anything as ISIS is a threat to Assad reign so I think despite there initial protests there will be tacit support. I noticed Russia saying " the sovereignty of Syria needs to be respected".... ...after Ukraine I am surprised any Russian official can seriously make statements like that without  laughing

 

Anyway ISIS over played there hand, they made a fatal mistake that Obamas conciliatory view around military intervention as thinking that the USA is weak. They publically beheaded several American citizens and now they are facing the consequences

 

 

Now that the USA is targeting them within Syria I believe there days are numbered

 

Also what's very different about this military action is that several Middle East countries are actively involved in this new " coalition of the willing ". They include the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan and Bahrain

Edited September 23, 2014 by BruceVC

[Malcador]

Probably a very large number of days left for them.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I keep thinking these are Archer threads.

[BruceVC]

Probably a very large number of days left for them.

Yeah I agree but remember something very important. One of the reasons ISIS has been so successful is that no one has seriously threatened there home base in Syria, this is a game changer. So there military effectiveness may be curtailed quicker than you think

[Volourn]

A group named ISIS may be around for an indefinite time but that's different than actually have power of large areas of land and runn ing it like some sort of pseudo government out in the open like they basically were/are.

[Namutree]

I don't feel ISIS has been all that successful; their goals will not be realized, and they never even came close. One need only remember the war between Hannibal & Rome to understand what I mean. There was never any hope for ISIS; all they've accomplished is to draw our enemies out of their rabbit holes and into the open where we can kill them at our leisure. 

 

There's a reason al-Qaeda didn't want to get mixed up with them. Idiots in the media thought it was because ISIS were such brutes, but the real reason is that the leadership understood that ISIS had no future. I suspect the group will disperse to preserve the organization after they are routed, but not until after taking massive casualties.

[BruceVC]

A group named ISIS may be around for an indefinite time but that's different than actually have power of large areas of land and runn ing it like some sort of pseudo government out in the open like they basically were/are.

 

Agreed, even if they get completely defeated in Syria that doesn't mean the ISIS ideology will vanish. You can never really defeat an ideology through military means. But the honeymoon of there safe haven in Syria is basically over and that's a goods thing

[Shallow]

The main reason ISIS has been succesfull is that they've stuck to Syria, which is in a massive civil war as is, and Iraq, which is one of the most incompetent nations in the middleeast, and badly needs to be split in three. The secondary reason is that they operate like a nonguerrilla army and not like a terrorist orgazation, which means that they'll need to bottoms up restructure their organization the second someone competent bothers coming after them. Then finally there is the fact that the civilians either prefer them to their current leadership, or are little entitled brats waiting for someone else to come in and save them, or demanding refugee status in Europe.

[obyknven]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/22/world/meast/u-s-airstrikes-isis-syria/index.html

 

Yep, US begin war against Syria at last. They make long path to make this real. Firstly with help of Turkish ally they create ISIS. But ISIS fail own goal and has been defeated by Syrian army and Kurdish selfdefence. Then US organise ISIS "invasion" into Iraq, where they:

Cut Kurdish supply lines. Syrian Kurdish self-defence has been weakened.

Has been armed by newest US weapons (Iraq army just delivers all these toys to them and flee without fight).

After this well armed US-backed terrorist return to Syria for finishing own work. And US use this situation for attack  of Syria without declaration of war or permission from UNN (We make war against terrorists, trust to us).... Profit.

It's so good really. Syrian Trap triggered.

[BruceVC]

The main reason ISIS has been succesfull is that they've stuck to Syria, which is in a massive civil war as is, and Iraq, which is one of the most incompetent nations in the middleeast, and badly needs to be split in three. The secondary reason is that they operate like a nonguerrilla army and not like a terrorist orgazation, which means that they'll need to bottoms up restructure their organization the second someone competent bothers coming after them. Then finally there is the fact that the civilians either prefer them to their current leadership, or are little entitled brats waiting for someone else to come in and save them, or demanding refugee status in Europe.

 

I think your criticism about the civilians who live in ISIS occupied territory is harsh and unfair. ISIS has had 3 years of fighting in Syria to hone and improve there combat skills. When they first invaded Iraq the Iraqi army capitulated and retreated. ISIS may not be as effective as any conventional army but they are still a dangerous force. And they have no issue with extreme violence, mass killings  and they have a complete disregard for human rights. You can't expect your average civilian to reasonably oppose them. So of course non-combatants   will either flee from them or accept living under there anachronistic and extremist interpretation of Islam

[BruceVC]

Something else that I mentioned  that is very significant is that this is the first time, I can recall in recent times, that various Middle East countries are directly involved in airstrikes against ISIS or any enemy for that matter. For example the Jordanian air force is really bombing ISIS positions. Normally Middle East countries just supply logistical support.

 

 

This is a real "coalition of the willing " and I'm glad the USA has obviously made it clear that they will get involved but not if other countries don't also contribute militarily. This makes sense on a number of levels.

Edited September 23, 2014 by BruceVC

[HoonDing]

Hopefully our Western "moderates" who joined ISIS will never return.

 

Also I wonder how those Austrian girls are doing. Probably already married to some Chechen rabble and with child.

 

 

 

[BruceVC]

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/22/world/meast/u-s-airstrikes-isis-syria/index.html

 

Yep, US begin war against Syria at last. They make long path to make this real. Firstly with help of Turkish ally they create ISIS. But ISIS fail own goal and has been defeated by Syrian army and Kurdish selfdefence. Then US organise ISIS "invasion" into Iraq, where they:

Cut Kurdish supply lines. Syrian Kurdish self-defence has been weakened.

Has been armed by newest US weapons (Iraq army just delivers all these toys to them and flee without fight).

After this well armed US-backed terrorist return to Syria for finishing own work. And US use this situation for attack  of Syria without declaration of war or permission from UNN (We make war against terrorists, trust to us).... Profit.

It's so good really. Syrian Trap triggered.

 

 

 

Wait so you are suggesting that the USA created ISIS as a reason to actually invade Syria?

 

Please tell me even you don't believe this .....  

[Namutree]

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/22/world/meast/u-s-airstrikes-isis-syria/index.html

 

Yep, US begin war against Syria at last. They make long path to make this real. Firstly with help of Turkish ally they create ISIS. But ISIS fail own goal and has been defeated by Syrian army and Kurdish selfdefence. Then US organise ISIS "invasion" into Iraq, where they:

Cut Kurdish supply lines. Syrian Kurdish self-defence has been weakened.

Has been armed by newest US weapons (Iraq army just delivers all these toys to them and flee without fight).

After this well armed US-backed terrorist return to Syria for finishing own work. And US use this situation for attack  of Syria without declaration of war or permission from UNN (We make war against terrorists, trust to us).... Profit.

It's so good really. Syrian Trap triggered.

 

 

 

Wait so you are suggesting that the USA created ISIS as a reason to actually invade Syria?

 

Please tell me even you don't believe this .....  

 

Not to mention that this whole ISIS situation will almost certainly ensure that Assad will remain in power. Also ISIS has made Iran more powerful than ever. If making ISIS were our plan; it sure blew up in our face. Not to mention there is really no room for profit here. 

[obyknven]

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/22/world/meast/u-s-airstrikes-isis-syria/index.html

 

Yep, US begin war against Syria at last. They make long path to make this real. Firstly with help of Turkish ally they create ISIS. But ISIS fail own goal and has been defeated by Syrian army and Kurdish selfdefence. Then US organise ISIS "invasion" into Iraq, where they:

Cut Kurdish supply lines. Syrian Kurdish self-defence has been weakened.

Has been armed by newest US weapons (Iraq army just delivers all these toys to them and flee without fight).

After this well armed US-backed terrorist return to Syria for finishing own work. And US use this situation for attack  of Syria without declaration of war or permission from UNN (We make war against terrorists, trust to us).... Profit.

It's so good really. Syrian Trap triggered.

 

 

 

Wait so you are suggesting that the USA created ISIS as a reason to actually invade Syria?

 

Please tell me even you don't believe this .....  

 

Not only US of course. Main ISIS bases placed on Turkish territory (but Turkey is NATO member), they begin offence against Syria from Turkey. Probably main Turkish interest is kill so many Kurds as they can prevent creating of independent Kurdistan. Also Israel involved in this, IDF constantly support ISIS by airstrikes during Syrian civil war, probably they are true masters while US only play role of puppets (Hodor!). Also Britts very tied with these medieval Arabic monarchies who also backed ISIS. In Summ US, Israel, UK, Turkey stay behind created by ISIS crysis.

[Walsingham]

Hopefully our Western "moderates" who joined ISIS will never return.

 

Also I wonder how those Austrian girls are doing. Probably already married to some Chechen rabble and with child.

 

 

I've been fighting this mental reflex literally for years, but can contain myself no more:

 

Does anyone else think the whole finger in the air thing looks like the subject has been caught freezeframe while dancing?

 

Point up, one clockwise waggle, point to side, hip shimmy, return to point finger at ceiling, HEY MACARENA!

 

EDIT: Russia makes money from Syria and North Iraq simply by reducing the overall available petrochems. Less in the market, more money for Russian petrochems. I despise being so simplistic about motivations, but the link is there.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Walsingham

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/22/world/meast/u-s-airstrikes-isis-syria/index.html

 

Yep, US begin war against Syria at last. They make long path to make this real. Firstly with help of Turkish ally they create ISIS. But ISIS fail own goal and has been defeated by Syrian army and Kurdish selfdefence. Then US organise ISIS "invasion" into Iraq, where they:

Cut Kurdish supply lines. Syrian Kurdish self-defence has been weakened.

Has been armed by newest US weapons (Iraq army just delivers all these toys to them and flee without fight).

After this well armed US-backed terrorist return to Syria for finishing own work. And US use this situation for attack  of Syria without declaration of war or permission from UNN (We make war against terrorists, trust to us).... Profit.

It's so good really. Syrian Trap triggered.

 

 

 

Wait so you are suggesting that the USA created ISIS as a reason to actually invade Syria?

 

Please tell me even you don't believe this .....  

 

Not to mention that this whole ISIS situation will almost certainly ensure that Assad will remain in power. Also ISIS has made Iran more powerful than ever. If making ISIS were our plan; it sure blew up in our face. Not to mention there is really no room for profit here. 

 

 

Exactly, the USA has no intention of bombing anyone in Syria except for ISIS targets

[obyknven]

Hopefully our Western "moderates" who joined ISIS will never return.

 

Also I wonder how those Austrian girls are doing. Probably already married to some Chechen rabble and with child.

 

Probably they just prefer true men from Chechnya instead of feminine Europeans.

[Shallow]

I think your criticism about the civilians who live in ISIS occupied territory is harsh and unfair. ISIS has had 3 years of fighting in Syria to hone and improve there combat skills. When they first invaded Iraq the Iraqi army capitulated and retreated. ISIS may not be as effective as any conventional army but they are still a dangerous force. And they have no issue with extreme violence, mass killings  and they have a complete disregard for human rights. You can't expect your average civilian to reasonably oppose them. So of course non-combatants   will either flee from them or accept living under there anachronistic and extremist interpretation of Islam

 

Despite all the brutality the civilians in ISIS lands still vastly outnumber the militants, the people there have the tools they need for the most basic defense, can't blame them for not wanting to risk life and limb over Iraqs government which alianates them, or Syrias other civil war factions who are gonna bring just as much violence, but in the end, civilians need to realize they have what they need to fight, and that it is their own damn responsibility to fight. If you're not willing to die for your freedom, why should other people be? If Iraq wasn't such a badly managed failure of a state the Iraqi civilians in the north would maybe prefer them over ISIS enough to fight, if the south didn't essentially have the army consist 100% of Shia southerners the army might've given a **** and not just walked away as they'd be protecting their home and not just a region their country doesn't want to stop oppressing and exploiting. Whether you like it or not it is however still ultimately your own responsibility to do something about it when someone wants to take away parts of your freedom or your life that you aren't willing to part with.

 

The fault of this whole thing spilling into Iraq is on many people, ISIS for being ISIS, Iraq for being a failed state, the US for everything they've ever done in Iraq and Syria in recent history, but ultimately the blame lands on the civilians for understandably not giving that much of a **** and then demanding refugee status in Europe or for someone else to intervene.

[Erez]

Things are way more complicated than whats meets the eye here, regarding your question though, it doesn't look like Isis are going anywhere any time soon. There have too many sunnis-ISIS supporters who consider the average American, Europan and all christians for that matter to be infidels, for Isis supporters, atheists are even worse.

[Erez]

Also Israel involved in this, IDF constantly support ISIS by airstrikes during Syrian civil war, probably they are true masters while US only play role of puppets (Hodor!). Also Britts very tied with these medieval Arabic monarchies who also backed ISIS. In Summ US, Israel, UK, Turkey stay behind created by ISIS crysis.

 

Just like you advocate the destruction of earth by living right?

[obyknven]

 

Also Israel involved in this, IDF constantly support ISIS by airstrikes during Syrian civil war, probably they are true masters while US only play role of puppets (Hodor!). Also Britts very tied with these medieval Arabic monarchies who also backed ISIS. In Summ US, Israel, UK, Turkey stay behind created by ISIS crysis.

 

Just like you advocate the destruction of earth by living right?

 

Do you think the criticism of Israel cause destruction of Earth?

[BruceVC]

 

Also Israel involved in this, IDF constantly support ISIS by airstrikes during Syrian civil war, probably they are true masters while US only play role of puppets (Hodor!). Also Britts very tied with these medieval Arabic monarchies who also backed ISIS. In Summ US, Israel, UK, Turkey stay behind created by ISIS crysis.

 

Just like you advocate the destruction of earth by living right?

 

 

Don't take what Oby says seriously, most of us don't

[obyknven]

 

Hopefully our Western "moderates" who joined ISIS will never return.

 

Also I wonder how those Austrian girls are doing. Probably already married to some Chechen rabble and with child.

 

 

I've been fighting this mental reflex literally for years, but can contain myself no more:

 

Does anyone else think the whole finger in the air thing looks like the subject has been caught freezeframe while dancing?

 

Point up, one clockwise waggle, point to side, hip shimmy, return to point finger at ceiling, HEY MACARENA!

 

Actually this sighn meant: "God is great!". Do you has problems with this?

[obyknven]

Allahu  above us, West beneath us! Allahu Akbar!

 

http://youtu.be/5EiJOkcONpM

 

Yep, true Muslims can't be allies for Israel as ISIS do. ISIS are heretics, neo-Khawarij who begin war against Muslims. Actually modern events in Middle East strongly remind Reformation religious  wars in Medieval period, when Protestants ( named as Jewish heretcs at this time ) take power during bloodbath.