Please Change the Might Attribute

[Tartantyco]

 

They're not going to change it, because separating physical and magical damage only creates dump stats. Instead of complaining about how you're so confused by a very simple abstraction, maybe you should ask yourselves why they did it this way.

they did it to make it simple and easy. its not a dump stat its a standard attribute for anyone who is serious in rpgs. I am not confused by it I am annoyed they are dumbing it down and making it simple. All the other ones make sense except this one, all they have to do is remove the damage increase for magic and its over.

 

Nonsense detected. You're just proving me right with your reply here. Because you are either unwilling or unable to understand the current PoEt attribute system, you do not actually discuss the issue that is relevant to the development of the game, you simply insist that your opinion should be considered the correct opinion.

[Hamenaglar]

 

 

 

Might Attribute is just all wrong a Wizard is just as Strong as a fighter and then on top of that a can wield more power full spells.

 

Dont try to re invent the attribute system and stream line it its not what the old BG or RPGs were about. I am suprised you just didnt create 2 atributes power and reflex and leave it at that.

 

Bring back Strength for how strong some one is and will power and inteligence for magic user classes.

There is nothing wrong with might except maybe the name. I bet if they renamed it power or potency then less people whould whine about muscle wizards.

 

 

No I wouldn't because strength is would still be missing, you can not have a bow that requires a strength to pull it back or a proper ecumbrance system, and kills role play. This game is supposed to be a spiritral successor to the BG series but the might attribute is more akin to a tribute to world of Warcraft. There could never be a way to allow bashing in of doors or chests.

 

Its flawed. It allows the most powerful or mighty wizard to hit someone with a two handed sword as it does a fighter. That's wrong.

 

Two things:

 

1. BG didnt have a very good encumbrance system either. In fact, its inventory system was a mess that was only remedied by potion bags, bags of holding, ammo bags, and gem bags (which all effectively negated the need for inventory slots or a strength score).

 

2. You are looking at it all wrong. Who is to say that magical power CAN'T make you swing a sword better? Hell, worked pretty good for this guy...

 

 

You do understand that Gandalf is a demi-god/angelic creature?

[Cantousent]

I don't mind having an attribute that governs physical and magical prowess.  I simply find it offputting that it is called 'Might.'  I know that might can reference more than physical strength, but in a fantasy RPG, I associate it with muscle.  I think of 'Might and Magic.'  I firmly believe, and I may be wrong of course, that *a lot* of players will come in and run afoul of the Might attribute because they'll have the same intuitive thought.  Call it Soul Power or something is all I'm saying.  Not everyone who plays will be a number crunching game theorist.  Folks will learn, but why use a term that, by common use, is so weighted towards physical attributes?

[No idea]

 

Eh, that video doesn't really answer my question. He talks about extremes(dexterous character that isn't good at dodging), but I'm talking about an archetype, a physically weak wizard that has incredible power. But that character can't exist in this attribute system. Wait... the dexterous character that's bad at dodging can't either... I understand that attributes are tricky to design, and you can't appease everyone, but this is just eh... questionable.

 

 

This is true. However, there are two mitigating factors:

 

1) Wizards do decent damage anyway, even without a high Might score. The spells are just inherently tough.

 

2) D&D didn't actually have any stat that increased spell damage, so you could say its attributes didn't exactly support that archetype either. Between Might as the stat that increases spell damage and no stat at all, it's probably better to have an option.

Not directly, but indirectly int, wis and cha increased the damage dealt. A lot.

[No idea]

 

 

A "fragile" wizard who has incredible power can totally exist. That's why HP is tied to CON.

 

And for the last time everybody... this is a completely different fantasy world from Forgotten Realms (and all derivatives). This world operates on completely different rules. Might does not mean physical strength. Great physical strength is indeed one result of high Might - but they are not one and the same.

 

How does one measure physical strength then? I'm just curious.

 

Not with an attribute - not in this game.

Then i have to agree with others that the system doesnt make much sense. You give us con, dex, int, wis and cha, but no str? That system has always made sense because it was very intuitive. The might attribute and what it represents seems a change in the d&d system for the sake of change, so that nobody can say they are just copying the d&d attribute system. But the problem is that they have left us with a counterintuitive system whoch doesnt make sense. If you copy, make a perfect copy or make sure what you change really improves the system.

[Cantousent]

Prime attributes certainly had a significant effect on DC if nothing else.  In fact, it becomes the biggest chunk of the DC for your spells.

[Shevek]

You do understand that Gandalf is a demi-god/angelic creature?

 

He is a old guy that uses something other than physical strength to have "might" with a sword. All other nerd-isms are irrelevant.

[leninghola]

 

 

 

 

Might Attribute is just all wrong a Wizard is just as Strong as a fighter and then on top of that a can wield more power full spells.

 

Dont try to re invent the attribute system and stream line it its not what the old BG or RPGs were about. I am suprised you just didnt create 2 atributes power and reflex and leave it at that.

 

Bring back Strength for how strong some one is and will power and inteligence for magic user classes.

There is nothing wrong with might except maybe the name. I bet if they renamed it power or potency then less people whould whine about muscle wizards.

 

 

No I wouldn't because strength is would still be missing, you can not have a bow that requires a strength to pull it back or a proper ecumbrance system, and kills role play. This game is supposed to be a spiritral successor to the BG series but the might attribute is more akin to a tribute to world of Warcraft. There could never be a way to allow bashing in of doors or chests.

 

Its flawed. It allows the most powerful or mighty wizard to hit someone with a two handed sword as it does a fighter. That's wrong.

 

Two things:

 

1. BG didnt have a very good encumbrance system either. In fact, its inventory system was a mess that was only remedied by potion bags, bags of holding, ammo bags, and gem bags (which all effectively negated the need for inventory slots or a strength score).

 

2. You are looking at it all wrong. Who is to say that magical power CAN'T make you swing a sword better? Hell, worked pretty good for this guy...

 

 

You do understand that Gandalf is a demi-god/angelic creature?

 

Are you saying he has a really strong soul?

[Azrael Ultima]

You give us con, dex, int, wis and cha, but no str?

Last i looked, we only got con, dex and int out of that list.

[No idea]

 

You give us con, dex, int, wis and cha, but no str?

Last i looked, we only got con, dex and int out of that list.

Perception is clearly wisdom. Same for Resolve with Charisma. The attribute system of poe is the very same as d&d (nothing wrong with that, imho) except for str, which doesnt exist, and instead we get a mix of physical and soul strenght which is rather confusing.

[Azrael Ultima]

I don't think you understand what "same system" means. Beyond names, they have nothing in common.

 

I can't even fathom where you got the idea that Perception and Resolve could in any way be connected to Wisdom and Charisma, other than being the 5th and 6th stat, respectively. They are absolutely nothing like each other.

[Racker]

'Might' is kind of strange, not sure if I just have to get used to it.  I think it's jarring to not have any indication of a character's physical strength.  

 

Using 'might' to describe how powerful a melee character is makes sense if you assume the entire party is supernaturally powerful (this would, after all, explain why your fighters can keep swinging through hordes of ogres, spiders and goblins all day without dropping.  And take multiple hits from those enemies without being mortally wounded).   From that perspective it does make sense to measure a fighter's ability via 'soul power' rather than physical strength.  

 

Also, while this may make it seem like a wizard could swing a sword as well as a fighter, don't  PoE fighters rely more on abilities than they did in IE games?   Wizards may have the 'might' to swing a sword, but lack the abilities and skills needed to utilize it properly. 

[DrBrian]

Random suggestion:

 

Since so many people are troubled by the fact might governs physical and magical damage, and resolve is considered underwhelming at the moment, also considering interruption is a less important factor for melee characters than spellcasters, change magical damage scaling to resolve instead of might.

Perception being considered another weak state, change ranged damage scaling from might to perception and chances to hit with ranged weapons from dexterity to perception.

 

Voila.

 

That or mod it, whatever.

 

Of course then not all the stats are equal on all characters, but realistically that's already the case and at least no stats are underwhelming on all classes.

Edited September 8, 2014 by DrBrian

[Tartantyco]

The issue there is that you'll create dump stats, which directly conflicts with the stated design goals. All attributes should be useful for all classes.

[No idea]

I don't think you understand what "same system" means. Beyond names, they have nothing in common.I can't even fathom where you got the idea that Perception and Resolve could in any way be connected to Wisdom and Charisma, other than being the 5th and 6th stat, respectively. They are absolutely nothing like each other.

Simply read their explanation of what they are. And with same system imean not the mechanics,but in how thwgame system defines a person, not how those attributes work (altough there are a lot of similitudes)

Edited September 8, 2014 by No idea

[wpmaura]

This Guy has the same magical strength and power as gandalf this is what is wrong with the merging of stats. They have taking the lazy WoW route with stats lets make this an easy game to get into, That is not a tribute to the RPGs of old thats a slap in the face.

 

[Dray Truoc]

My issue with it is this, take the Cipher for example. His spells hit hard as ****, pump him full of might and his weapon attacks hit hard as ****, put him in Medium armor, give him a big 2 hander, and you basically have a walking spell casting warrior of F*** you and everything else..... I just think there should be a separation of Spell power and Weapon attack power. It seems pretty Lopsided in favor of Spell casters. I don't know maybe I don't grasp it yet.

 

I reckon there's an element here of changing the way we think about this...new world, new setting, new lore.  If one's 'power' is derived from their soul, then maybe those who can wield their soul-power effectively ARE the walking, talking bad-ass fighters of this realm.  Fighter with little to no soul-power...meat shield.  Cipher with big soul-power and weapon skills...double threat.  Maybe it IS lopsided, but maybe it fits the lore of the realm?

 

Just hypothesizing... 

[Auda]

Why not make the Might attribute has two subsections: Physical Might and Intellectual Might?
The value might be derived from the two sub-attributes (sum of both). So you could further customize your character. Decisions, decisions
Example:
   - Muscle wizard: 10 Physical Might + 10 Intellectual  Might = 20 Might  (10 + 10)
   - Weak Wizard much specializaed on spells: 2 Physical Might + 18 Intellectual Might = 20 Might (2 + 18)
The muscle would be more versatile wizard, the weak wizard would be more powerful with spell but weaker in melee.
For stats check on both examples the attribute Might is 20, but would get them each differently.

 

 

The system attribute would look like:

 - Might (Healing and Fortitude)

      - Physical Might (Physical damage)

      - Intellectual Might (Magical damage)

 - Dexterity (Accuracy and Reflexes)

 - Constitution (Health, Stamina and Fortitude)

 - Percepction (Interrupt and Reflexes)

 - Intellect (Area and duration)

 - Resolve (Concentration and will)

 

Sorry for my poor English.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Auda

[Sensuki]

My soul is p. mighty, dunno bout you guise.