no escaping?

[JohnnySideburns]

As the title suggest. This is about escaping combat.
 

This might not be too relevant to a lot of people, but I think it is. In gaming in general for a long time it is like failure is not an option, but just leads to a reload. However if you are playing the game on trail of iron there will be no reloading, so how to deal with a situation that you can't handle? turn tail and run! -"he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day" or what?

 

In the IE games I sometimes had to run if there was a fight I couldn't win. So uhm I tested it a bit in POE...

 

And it there is no such thing, at least in the current build. I tried fleeing, leaving bb fighter to cover my retreat, that worked ok soon the rest of the party was safe and sound across the map. Then bb fighter took a beating, he went down and combat was over, as soon as combat was over he gets back up and combat starts again only to have him knocked down shortly after and get up again repeating this dance till his hp hit zero and he died.

 

I then tried starting a fight and fleeing off the map, but you can't "venture forth while in combat"

I tried this in the fight over the bar, but I couldn't even run down the stairs as this also was considered venturing forth.

 

So is it really impossible to run away? do anybody care except me? do you always have to win?

 

(well I guess you can cast a slow spell on the enemy and run out of sight of the enemy if the map is big enough, but I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't even walk down the stairs in combat. And that the entire party always have to stick together, and can't split up in the town at all...)

[Linkamus]

I always considered running away a cheese tactic anyways. I don't mind the way they have it. Am I alone in this?

[Zansatsu]

Maybe it's something they will look at now that you've brought it up! 

[Zansatsu]

I always considered running away a cheese tactic anyways. I don't mind the way they have it. Am I alone in this?

I agree I prefer to fight to the death and I guess reload from a saved game and try again, but I also see no harm in allowing for tactical retreats.

[Leferd]

Run Away! Run Away!

 

[Linkamus]

[Leferd]

That's why I'm hoping for a Holy Hand Grenade super weapon to kill those pesky wabbits.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I have successfully been able to flee combat. It's extremely difficult to do without leaving a sacrifice, but I have done it once by using a Wizard spell to paralyze everyone for long enough. Escaping combat is very easy to do if you don't have any problems killing off your party members. In order to test certain things, and explore levels higher than 5 expediently, I've been literally throwing the BB character naked and defenseless to the lions. So long as you're slightly out of LOS either due to incapacitating the enemy or sating them with blood of the fallen, you can break combat and leave the area.

 

*I need to edit and clarify something.

 

You cannot escape combat by breaking LOS with obstacles like walls for example. You need to be a distance where LOS would not be met were there no obstructions. Breaking combat indoors is a challenge, and I can't say I've accomplished it yet. Outside though, it's as above.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Mr. Magniloquent

[Silent Winter]

I think being able to run downstairs (and have enemy follow you) is a good thing.

Being able to flee the area if you get far enough from the enemy is also good - get out of the cave, there are too many spiders, etc.

 

It's not cheese - it's roleplaying.

In most cases, I'll end up dying and reloading - but sometimes a tactical retreat is worthwhile.

[Fluffle]

Then bb fighter took a beating, he went down and combat was over, as soon as combat was over he gets back up and combat starts again only to have him knocked down shortly after and get up again repeating this dance till his hp hit zero and he died.

 

This is some strange mechanism that does need attention in my opinion.

 

Are there already threads about this?

 

I also happened to be in such a situation where my one character or two characters

are beaten down, fight ends, they get up, get beaten down again and so on, until they die.

 

What is the current mechanism? That characters get up when the combat is over?

Maybe that should be changed to when enemies are out of sight ? Or something else?

 

In situations where getting up means only to be beaten down immediately with no chance at all,

only to repeat this over and over until the character dies - I think they should rather not get up the first time when

they're knocked down and wait for their companions to kill the nearby enemies.

 

In short: characters should feign death and not get up if getting up means immediately knocked down anyway - and

that repeats until they die.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Fluffle

[Guest 4ward]

I think being able to run downstairs (and have enemy follow you) is a good thing.

Being able to flee the area if you get far enough from the enemy is also good - get out of the cave, there are too many spiders, etc.

 

It's not cheese - it's roleplaying.

In most cases, I'll end up dying and reloading - but sometimes a tactical retreat is worthwhile.

that's true. I remember how in BG2 i would send one party member into rooms that had tough opponents (most prominently a lich in the city gates of Athkatla) then summoned creatures and waited for the opponent to waste the tough spells on them then went outside and waited for them to follow me and face my party.

[Sensuki]

Running away should be legit if you don't have any unconscious party members.

 

The area transitioning is pretty strict atm. Can't even go into a house with 1 party member.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Sensuki

[Mayama]

 

I think being able to run downstairs (and have enemy follow you) is a good thing.

Being able to flee the area if you get far enough from the enemy is also good - get out of the cave, there are too many spiders, etc.

 

It's not cheese - it's roleplaying.

In most cases, I'll end up dying and reloading - but sometimes a tactical retreat is worthwhile.

that's true. I remember how in BG2 i would send one party member into rooms that had tough opponents (most prominently a lich in the city gates of Athkatla) then summoned creatures and waited for the opponent to waste the tough spells on them then went outside and waited for them to follow me and face my party.

 

I would reall like it if such tactics would not work, having a AI that is clever enough to make stuff like this impossible would be great.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Mayama

[Silent Winter]

^enemies should follow you through a door or down the stairs, yes.  AI should be clever enough to use spells/abilities well.

It shouldn't be the case that you can't go through an open door or down the stairs just because there's combat.

You should be able to send in a scout by themself, have them pull the enemy through the door and into an ambush.

[Utukka]

I agree that you should be able to retreat. Not my problem if some players want to abuse the AI, they are going to find ways to do that anyways. Or they will just play on easy or bust out the cheat codes.

[mutonizer]

^enemies should follow you through a door or down the stairs, yes.  AI should be clever enough to use spells/abilities well.

It shouldn't be the case that you can't go through an open door or down the stairs just because there's combat.

You should be able to send in a scout by themself, have them pull the enemy through the door and into an ambush.

Unrelated to the OP but in this situation, you should actually be able to have enemies recognize it's an ambush or that they are out-gunned, run away to other friendlies, call them up and then have the entire dungeon hunt you down or prepare ambushes of their own.

 

As the follow up/down, I think it's very complicated / impossible with the unity engine map handling system. Could be wrong though!

 

I always considered running away a cheese tactic anyways. I don't mind the way they have it. Am I alone in this?

I don't know man. If I'm exploring a cave I just found and suddenly an elder dragon pops his head around a corner, instantly killing 3 of my toughest guys, I think I'd rather be cheese...than be forced to reload because a magical wall prevents my surviving guys to get the hell outta there.

 

Imagine in IE engine if that was the case. You have your dudes with simple weapons exploring an area, suddenly faced with a mob that can only be hit by +2 magic weapons and there is no mechanics in the game that allows you to retreat, prepare and come back...

Edited August 30, 2014 by mutonizer