Jump to content

No Arrows Good thing or bad?


ctn2003

Recommended Posts

that would be interesting to see.

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/691086

 

given that the kickstarter had ~74,000 backers, and we is aware o' some paypal-only contributors, we would be fascinated to see a poll or somesuch similar device generate +37,000 arrow proponents. am actual doubting we could get +37,0000 backers to agree that the ie games were worthy of reproducing and improving with current (2013/14) tech, in spite o' the fact that such were the espoused goal o' the kisckstarter.

 

is not a big deal to us either way, but am always fascinated by messageboard feedback that reveals the majority will.

 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 6

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I was not a fan of arrows. They just seemed unnecessary. In BG2, I just went for Firetooth on my Archer even though it sucked compared to Tuigan because I didnt want to deal with arrow foolishness. They took up way too much inventory space and I did not feel compelled to swap arrow types often. If anything, I ended up hoarding a bunch of special arrows and never actually doing anything with them.

Which would mean that the firetooth wouldn't be an awesome reward anymore, because it wouldn't be as special anymore. It would just be another bow that doesn't require any arrows just like the rest of the bows in the game.

How do you know? Maybe different bows can have different elemental effects. You can still have a unique fire crossbow but what makes an item desirable shouldnt be it subverting poor game design.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The idea is very good, but I like how it was done in BG2. You have regular and special arrows and can find very special bows that don't require arrows.

 

How do you make a poll?

No idea my friend.

 

I dunno. I kinda dont. Arrows suck in the ie games. I was happy to get firetooth just to not have to micromanage that stuff in bg2.

Which would mean that the firetooth wouldn't be an as awesome reward anymore, because it wouldn't be as special anymore. It would just be another bow that doesn't require any arrows just like the rest of the bows in the game. It would still be powerful but less special.

 

I really liked stuff like this in BG2.

Edited by Helm
  • Like 1

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Helm:

So, the devs should make bows crappy by design and then make players happy when they find 1 special bow isnt completely crappy?

No, the player should be able to replace that very good bow that uses arrows with an awesome one that doesn't use arrows. There should also be a tradeoff in certain cases, not every arrowless bow needs to be super powerful.

 

This is what I consider to be good itemization. BG2 had the best itemization in any RPG to date because of stuff like this.

  • Like 2

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No they should make it like BG wher when you found a good bow + 3 you get arrows or peiring + 7 to Th0co then you have a great chance to kill something tough for a wile.   Not dumb down the bows to do so.

That is also a very good point. You can use special arrows to take down tough foes. You can't really do that if every bow in the game doesn't use any arrows at all.

  • Like 1

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bg2 has terrible itemization. It full of ridiculously op items that marginalized character development, enemy enchantment to hit requirements that trivialized items (or even weapon types) often before they were acquired and extremely poor item balance whereby party composition was often dictated by players metagaming and planning their party around item drops. I am very happy Obsidian is taking a long hard look at this stuff and making some changes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

we got no problem with arrows. that being said, depending how magic items work, magic ammo can be... troubling. bg arrows o' detonation and arrows o' piercing were silly powerful... am suspecting qa were out to lunch when those items were being tested. 'course we doubt obsidian developers would make such obvious balancing mistakes. nevertheless, using ie game parlance, if you stack a +3 arrow with a +3 bow, you end up with a functional +6 weapon... which in d&d, were epic stuff like the Sword of Kas and various artifacts o' Epic Power. nevertheless, magic ammo and launcher made the +6 powha almost too common. heck, you were required to have +1 or +3 weapons to hit some critters,  so such magic ammo were a virtual necessity... 'course that meant any magic launcher were functional overkill.

 

we don't mind arrows, but we suspect it were simple easier to abandon for purposes o' balance... and 'cause we got such small inventory anyway in PoE, arrows (particularly specialized arrows) would create even more space-saving concerns.

 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 2

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I was not a fan of arrows. They just seemed unnecessary. In BG2, I just went for Firetooth on my Archer even though it sucked compared to Tuigan because I didnt want to deal with arrow foolishness. They took up way too much inventory space and I did not feel compelled to swap arrow types often. If anything, I ended up hoarding a bunch of special arrows and never actually doing anything with them.

Which would mean that the firetooth wouldn't be an awesome reward anymore, because it wouldn't be as special anymore. It would just be another bow that doesn't require any arrows just like the rest of the bows in the game.

How do you know? Maybe different bows can have different elemental effects. You can still have a unique fire crossbow but what makes an item desirable shouldnt be it subverting poor game design.

 

Having bows with arrows and (more or less powerful) bows without arrows is poor game design? Wat. xD

 

Anyway, I know because I played BG2 and that game has the best itemization to date. You don't need different types of bows, just different types of arrows.

Edited by Helm

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bg2 has terrible itemization. It full of ridiculously op items that marginalized character development

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I am very happy Obsidian is taking a long hard look at this stuff and making some changes.

They are dumbing quite a bit down as it seems. I think you'll like it.

  • Like 1

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bg2 has terrible itemization. It full of ridiculously op items that marginalized character development, enemy enchantment to hit requirements that trivialized items (or even weapon types) often before they were acquired and extremely poor item balance whereby party composition was often dictated by players metagaming and planning their party around item drops. I am very happy Obsidian is taking a long hard look at this stuff and making some changes.

Some of your posts really make me rage inside.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why use a bow at this point if theirs guns?..with arrows itl make the bow more usfull

I'd take a matchlock over a bow any day. As would most armies. Even Nobunaga's.

"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Bg2 has terrible itemization. It full of ridiculously op items that marginalized character development, enemy enchantment to hit requirements that trivialized items (or even weapon types) often before they were acquired and extremely poor item balance whereby party composition was often dictated by players metagaming and planning their party around item drops. I am very happy Obsidian is taking a long hard look at this stuff and making some changes.

Some of your posts really make me rage inside.

Truth hurts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

I was not a fan of arrows. They just seemed unnecessary. In BG2, I just went for Firetooth on my Archer even though it sucked compared to Tuigan because I didnt want to deal with arrow foolishness. They took up way too much inventory space and I did not feel compelled to swap arrow types often. If anything, I ended up hoarding a bunch of special arrows and never actually doing anything with them.

Which would mean that the firetooth wouldn't be an awesome reward anymore, because it wouldn't be as special anymore. It would just be another bow that doesn't require any arrows just like the rest of the bows in the game.

How do you know? Maybe different bows can have different elemental effects. You can still have a unique fire crossbow but what makes an item desirable shouldnt be it subverting poor game design.

 

Having bows with arrows and (more or less powerful) bows without arrows is poor game design? Wat. xD

 

Anyway, I know because I played BG2 and that game has the best itemization to date. You don't need different types of bows, just different types of arrows.

 

 Yet both games in the BG series did in fact have different bows along with crossbows slings and darts or are we to ignore that part of the best itemization to date?  :no:

Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...