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Experience point system in the beta and onwards


Your thoughts on the xp system in the beta  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. What kind of xp system to do you want to see after having played the beta?

    • Quest xp only
      30
    • Quest xp and objectives that are large in scope
      52
    • Objective xp that are per dungeon or per map (minus bosses), including exploration and quest xp
      78
    • Objective xp per encounter (including "trash mobs"), per picked lock, per sneak, etc., plus quest xp
      53
    • Kill xp plus quest xp
      76


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now if they do decide to change it for some silly reason like a vocal minority complaining about it
Dude, do you not understand the poll?
 
90% of the voters want a different XP system than the one that is currently implemented in the game, which is quest only XP (the first option).

 

 

Not to mention we allowed multiple votes.. which means even the least favorite options are bound to get a few pity points from people who wanna be edgy or can't make up their mind..

 

 

There you go again Stun, abusing terms. How about you find a dictionary and put it next to your desk? That way you can look this stuff up before posting your silly nonsense.

 

Can you stop **** posting in this thread like it's the codex.. If you disagree then state your opinion.. Don't get into a pissing contest and ruin this thread too..

 

To clarify.. you can disagree with Stun, you can think his ideas are silly.. but don't attack him personally. It just makes your arguments look weaker.

Edited by Immortalis

From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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I find it humorous (and slightly annoying) that whenever my side tries to employ real world logic to justify Kill XP, we're suddenly gang-banged by masses from YOUR side reminding us that XP itself is an abstraction that logic cannot be applied to. But then one minute later the discussion shifts and we see you people are applying this SAME real world logic to justify the omission of Kill XP.

 

Make up your minds, please. Can we use logic or not?

Pointing out why kill XP isn't supported by logic and pointing out why the omission of kill XP is logically okay are the exact same thing.

 

So, it's funny how one minute later, we talk about the same thing we were already talking about?

 

Also, you can apply logic to it all day long. Why the hell said you couldn't? Just, when you apply logic to it, you get the same result of "this doesn't really make sense like that."

 

Logic isn't dependent upon realism, either. In the absence of the ability to perfectly simulate everything in the game, it is logical to have things abstractly represent the real world. Otherwise, our options would be "make the perfect simulation, or nothing at all." After that, it's just consistency. Thus, "But you really get experience when you fight things!" isn't consistent with the fact that you don't actually improve your Stealth and Lore skills when slaying beetles, etc.

 

Also, Stun, I would very much like it if you could argue with me, personally, when you quote and respond to me, instead of melding everything anyone else on "my side" has ever said.

Edited by Lephys

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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now if they do decide to change it for some silly reason like a vocal minority complaining about it
Dude, do you not understand the poll?
 
90% of the voters want a different XP system than the one that is currently implemented in the game, which is quest only XP (the first option).

 

 

Not to mention we allowed multiple votes.. which means even the least favorite options are bound to get a few pity points from people who wanna be edgy or can't make up their mind..

 

Yes, that is why a multiple choice poll was not a good choice.

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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Can you stop **** posting in this thread like it's the codex.. If you disagree then state your opinion.. Don't get into a pissing contest and ruin this thread too..

 

 

Excuse me, is the broken record accusing me of ruining threads?

"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


[slap Aloth]

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"Oh, we're back to "logic" again, are we?"

 

"If I do battle with the dragon who hunts me in the woods, I get no experience despite the challenge but if the little girl in the village asks me to find her dolly I get xp if I do?"

 

Do you find the above scenario acceptable? 'Cause I sure don't.

 

 

"It absolutely hurts the game. Plenty of people have complained in D:OS that the stealth and few charisma options totally screw those players. You will be a much lower level if you do not kill everything possible. It is awful. Putting points in charisma will make you feel like a fool. You are either wildly mistaken or desperate to prove your point at any cost."

 

DOS a combat heavy game focused on combat. oh, btw, While I found the game but not the best ever' many gamers loved it. LOVE IT TO DEATH. Seems to me xp for combat/kills didn't hurt their enjoyment at all.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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What if someone decides not to point anything out. Like for example, in this complete post from you:

Oh, we're back to "logic" again, are we?

^this was a response to an argument that was made about how XP for killing monsters was logical. There's no refutation here. it's just a dodge.

 

That's all you do on these threads, Mr. tart. That and attempt to toss dictionary 'corrections' to established gaming terminology.

Edited by Stun
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You're just repeating old arguments, Stun. If you want a "refutation", just go read the old thread.

"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


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now if they do decide to change it for some silly reason like a vocal minority complaining about it
Dude, do you not understand the poll?
 
90% of the voters want a different XP system than the one that is currently implemented in the game, which is quest only XP (the first option).

 

Do you not understand what a vocal minority is? It probably looks something like the 130 or so people that decided to participate in the poll.

"Forsooth, methinks you are no ordinary talking chicken!"

-Protagonist, Baldur's Gate

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now if they do decide to change it for some silly reason like a vocal minority complaining about it

 

Dude, do you not understand the poll?

 

90% of the voters want a different XP system than the one that is currently implemented in the game, which is quest only XP (the first option).

Do you not understand what a vocal minority is? It probably looks something like the 130 or so people that decided to participate in the poll.

To be fair we can only go on people who participate. Saying there is a silent majority but showing no .... Well evidence of it isn't fair.

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It would of course work and has been mentioned here in the thread a few times. But why does the game need MMO style mechanics to reward the player for creatures he has killed? Can't we just do it the less annoying way?

 

It doesn't have to be that; that was just an example. It could be XP for exploring the area that contains the mobs, or by having the mobs be attacking a random distressed person you might be inclined to save, or having their eyeballs be part of a recipe for some important item, or a dozen other things.

 

The important thing is that there be something that puts the mobs in a place or context where they become an obstacle to overcome on the way to a quest reward.

 

Mobs that exist without an XP umbrella are at best ingredient dispensers.

Edited by CatatonicMan
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I am incredibly disappointed with the decision to not have xp for killing monsters.  Think about it like this...If we take the sport of wrestling or mixed martial arts or the war in iraq ...every single battle you fight in you gain experience, you become stronger, wiser, more versatile against future foes.  It is this system that is the basis of Dungeons and Dragons, Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, and almost every other rpg we have come to love over the years.  The reason we like the system is that it mirrors real life, rpg's should mirror real life and not have some arbitrary "quest xp" gain.  If it doesn't, its not really an rpg in the truest sense.  The reason we like rpg's is that they have the element of knowing that if I work at something in an rpg setting over and over I will get better at that thing, just as in real life.  I am really stunned that Obsidian has decided to go this route, and hesitant to spread the word about this game any further....unless of course they can somehow reinstitute this vital component into the final product.

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Mobs that exist without an XP umbrella are at best ingredient dispensers.

Or traps. 8P

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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now if they do decide to change it for some silly reason like a vocal minority complaining about it

Dude, do you not understand the poll?

 

90% of the voters want a different XP system than the one that is currently implemented in the game, which is quest only XP (the first option).

Do you not understand what a vocal minority is? It probably looks something like the 130 or so people that decided to participate in the poll.

To be fair we can only go on people who participate. Saying there is a silent majority but showing no .... Well evidence of it isn't fair.

 

That's fine; I'm not making a claim about which side of the argument has the majority, one way or the other. However, the people who chose to participate in this poll epitomize the concept of a vocal minority, so Helm's comment made no sense.

"Forsooth, methinks you are no ordinary talking chicken!"

-Protagonist, Baldur's Gate

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now if they do decide to change it for some silly reason like a vocal minority complaining about it
Dude, do you not understand the poll?
 
90% of the voters want a different XP system than the one that is currently implemented in the game, which is quest only XP (the first option).

 

Do you not understand what a vocal minority is? It probably looks something like the 130 or so people that decided to participate in the poll.

 

Do you understand what extrapolation is?

 

130 people isn't a lot but it is enough to see that a extremely large majority don't like the current XP system (which is understandable, because it sucks)

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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It isn't a lot, but it basically automatically represents a lot of people? How does that work, exactly?

 

I mean, when they say "9 out of 10 doctors recommend this," I don't think they mean that they just asked 10 doctors about it and called it a day.

  • Like 1

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Do you understand what selection bias is, Helm?

"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


[slap Aloth]

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Do you understand what selection bias is, Helm?

Do you understand what denial is? That is what you are currently going through.

Edited by Helm
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Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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Do you know what denial is?

 

Well, you're giving me a great example of it right now.

"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


[slap Aloth]

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Do you know what denial is?

 

Well, you're giving me a great example of it right now.

 

Yeah, yeah. Keep on believing that quest only XP could get absolute majority of votes if a few hundered (or thousand) beta testers voted.

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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If they DO end up bringing back kill exp(which I would grumble about, I really liked that I wasn't able to emergency level up my rogue to lockpick the doors :( ), I hope they won't do the thing were every wolf gives 25 exp, with little variants depending on whether they are lower or higher level. Not for any real understandable real though, I just want something different if they decide to embrace the old IE ways :p

Edited by BrokenMask
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If they DO end up bringing back kill exp

Don't worry, they won't.

 

Sawyer would rather let the whole game end up as train wreck than change his "vision".

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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If they DO end up bringing back kill exp

Don't worry, they won't.

 

Sawyer would rather let the whole game end up as train wreck than change his "vision".

 

Umm, why are you being condescending regarding to Sawyer? <_<

 

Do you have some type of reason to be snide about him, like evidence that he doesn't listen feedback despite his job being listening feedback?

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Umm, why are you being condescending regarding to Sawyer? <_<

 

Do you have some type of reason to be snide about him, like evidence that he doesn't listen feedback despite his job being listening feedback?

 

 

These are extremely petty people we're dealing with.

"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


[slap Aloth]

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If they DO end up bringing back kill exp

Don't worry, they won't.

 

Sawyer would rather let the whole game end up as train wreck than change his "vision".

 

Umm, why are you being condescending regarding to Sawyer? <_<

 

Do you have some type of reason to be snide about him, like evidence that he doesn't listen feedback despite his job being listening feedback?

 

Because he is the reason that we have this system.

 

He also mildy insulted us.

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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If they DO end up bringing back kill exp

Don't worry, they won't.

 

Sawyer would rather let the whole game end up as train wreck than change his "vision".

 

Umm, why are you being condescending regarding to Sawyer? <_<

 

Do you have some type of reason to be snide about him, like evidence that he doesn't listen feedback despite his job being listening feedback?

 

Because he is the reason that we have this system.

 

He also mildy insulted us.

 

So waaaaait, you don't actually have any evidence that he doesn't listen feedback, yet you keep insulting the guy? ._.;

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