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Experience point system in the beta and onwards


Your thoughts on the xp system in the beta  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. What kind of xp system to do you want to see after having played the beta?

    • Quest xp only
      30
    • Quest xp and objectives that are large in scope
      52
    • Objective xp that are per dungeon or per map (minus bosses), including exploration and quest xp
      78
    • Objective xp per encounter (including "trash mobs"), per picked lock, per sneak, etc., plus quest xp
      53
    • Kill xp plus quest xp
      76


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I agree, the xp system is not the be all end all of part of the game and it shouldn't take a disproportionate amount of time from the devs, that is why I want then to switch the system to something they already know, let them give it another shot in the expansion or the next game where they have the time to brain storm and give it more time.

 

Whatever they decide to do with the xp system, I doubt that the game will meet it's deadline, the question is will putting in the IE system take longer then taking the time to figure out how offten they should award xp with the current system.

 

 

Amen brother.

"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Not really, Gfted1 has been against quest only XP since the very beginning.

 

 

I think it's more fair to say he was leaning towards kill -xp but had an open mind.. I fear the beta will close his mind wide shut and brace the doors with any furniture he can find. :lol:

 

My cross to bear was the "rest spot". :lol:

 

I definitely prefer kill XP but Im not married to it unless the alternative sucks. I thought objective XP worked in Shadowrun but it really sounds like a stinker in PoE.

 

 

Immortalis: In its current state, you might as well add "filling all cracks and crevices with grime and dirt" as well.

You guys are worrying me. I want to love this game but I already see myself walking away from it. ;(

 

Maybe I shouldn't play the Beta. :biggrin:

 

 

I trust Obsidian to fix it.. we just need to see if Josh can swallow his pride a bit.. obviously the system and theories about how people think wasn't exactly accurate. Bribe us to fight beetles Josh.. Bribe me to fight beetles.. Don't tell me to not play the game.. just bribe me!

 

The current xp system needs to be patched up.. does that mean kill xp? I doubt it.. but please give it a chance in future games Obsidian.. I don't wanna have to use a mod for every future IE Styled game you guys make.

Edited by Immortalis

From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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I still don't understand why you can't award higher exp for solving quests peacefully.  Is it because you can do it peacefully, then kill the bad guys anyway?  I'm sure there is a solution to that problem that doesn't include taking out all combat experience.

Of course there is a solution. Don't give players kill xp for murdering a quest giver after they have solved his quest peacefully. In other words, let the game emulates what a human DM would do.

Or just let the player do that anyway. Who cares what a player does in his own game. I have personally never killed quest givers, simply because I don't powergame, I rollplay.

 

We can't be trusted Helm, can't you see that. We are murderous heathenist dogs. If we so much as smell Kill xp we will be consumed by an uncontrollable urge to kill everything in sight.  We will forget all our years of RPing or why we play these games instead of Shooters. We will fly into a lizard brain, shark frenzied, blood orgy of death from which no villager, npc, or poor woodland creature will survive.

 

Oh and if you solve a quest peacefully they could tack serious penalties on going back and killing the people you just negotiated with. GASP!!!! could they do that to discourage double dipping I wonder?

Edited by Zansatsu
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Not really, Gfted1 has been against quest only XP since the very beginning.

 

 

I think it's more fair to say he was leaning towards kill -xp but had an open mind.. I fear the beta will close his mind wide shut and brace the doors with any furniture he can find. :lol:

 

My cross to bear was the "rest spot". :lol:

 

I definitely prefer kill XP but Im not married to it unless the alternative sucks. I thought objective XP worked in Shadowrun but it really sounds like a stinker in PoE.

 

 

Immortalis: In its current state, you might as well add "filling all cracks and crevices with grime and dirt" as well.

You guys are worrying me. I want to love this game but I already see myself walking away from it. ;(

 

Maybe I shouldn't play the Beta. :biggrin:

 

You should definitely try it and judge for yourself.

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Maybe I shouldn't play the Beta. :biggrin:

Well, the good news about the beta is that 1) it starts you off with camping supplies and 2) You're never far away from the village inn.

 

Here was my playstyle for the first wilderness map:

 

1)Fight an encounter.

2) Rush back to the tavern to rest.

3) go back and fight another encounter

4) Rush back to the inn to rest.

 

and then in that map's dungeon:

 

1)fight one encounter

2) set camp

3) fight another oncounter

4) set camp

 

If Josh thought he could eliminate or even reduce rest-spamming with his crap design ideas, he was horribly mistaken. I think rested more in this 3-map-beta than I did in 7 chapters of IWD1.

Edited by Stun
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Maybe I shouldn't play the Beta. :biggrin:

Well, the good news about the beta is that 1) it starts you off with camping supplies and 2) You're never far away from the village inn.

 

Here was my playstyle for the first wilderness map:

 

1)Fight an encounter.

2) Rush back to the tavern to rest.

3) go back and fight another encounter

4) Rush back to the inn to rest.

 

If Josh thought he could eliminate or even reduce rest-spamming with his design ideas, he was horribly mistaken. I think rested more in a single playthough of this beta than I did in 7 chapters of IWD1.

 

 

I agree with your statement.. but i can't bring myself to Like this.. this is horrible.. Lol

From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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And to add insult to injury, this below is really sad for the beta and the possibility of ever getting to level up:

 

 

most unfortunate bug so far is disappearing quests. the only xp we get is from guest and task completion, so quest disappearance is a game killer. 

 

 

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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And to add insult to injury, this below is really sad for the beta and the possibility of ever getting to level up:

 

 

most unfortunate bug so far is disappearing quests. the only xp we get is from guest and task completion, so quest disappearance is a game killer. 

 

 

 

 

Bugs are bugs.. it's just funny how helpless Gromnir feels being unable to have his Good Fun without the "collect ogre head" quest he was defending 2 weeks ago..

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From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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Maybe I shouldn't play the Beta. :biggrin:

Well, the good news about the beta is that 1) it starts you off with camping supplies and 2) You're never far away from the village inn.

 

Here was my playstyle for the first wilderness map:

 

1)Fight an encounter.

2) Rush back to the tavern to rest.

3) go back and fight another encounter

4) Rush back to the inn to rest.

 

and then in that map's dungeon:

 

1)fight one encounter

2) set camp

3) fight another oncounter

4) set camp

 

If Josh thought he could eliminate or even reduce rest-spamming with his crap design ideas, he was horribly mistaken. I think rested more in this 3-map-beta than I did in 7 chapters of IWD1.

 

What difficulty was it set on? I'm curious to know if the combat seems on par, more difficult, than it's predecessors.

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Actually how was the combat/spell/ all that? Forget the xp for a minute, was in enjoyable? Was it as punishing and bad as the demos make it look or was he playing terribly?

Edited by Zansatsu
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Actually how was the combat/spell/ all that? Forget the xp for a minute, was in enjoyable? Was it as punishing and bad as the demos make it look or was he playing terribly?

 

I don't think he would be resting this much if the combat wasn't kicking his ass. It's harder.

 

As for the resting itself, well, Infinity Engine-style RPGs aren't roguelikes or survival games. You aren't supposed to ever completely run out of resources and be forced to quit the game - running back to town to rest is always an option.

 

In this case, the town is close by.

Edited by Infinitron
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Maybe I shouldn't play the Beta. :biggrin:

Well, the good news about the beta is that 1) it starts you off with camping supplies and 2) You're never far away from the village inn.

 

Here was my playstyle for the first wilderness map:

 

1)Fight an encounter.

2) Rush back to the tavern to rest.

3) go back and fight another encounter

4) Rush back to the inn to rest.

 

and then in that map's dungeon:

 

1)fight one encounter

2) set camp

3) fight another oncounter

4) set camp

 

If Josh thought he could eliminate or even reduce rest-spamming with his crap design ideas, he was horribly mistaken. I think rested more in this 3-map-beta than I did in 7 chapters of IWD1.

 

 

 

Speaking of resting in inn's, what did you think of the buffs they provided you? How long did they last? Were the buffs different for each class?

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Well, although combat difficulty probably belongs in a different thread, it's not that hard (at least not on Easy, just unfamiliar  :biggrin:  ) .

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Speaking of resting in inn's, what did you think of the buffs they provided you? How long did they last? Were the buff different for each class?

 

Interestingly, I had buffs from expensive resting last really long, even beyond map travelling six hours! It's worth the money to sleep like kings.

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Actually how was the combat/spell/ all that? Forget the xp for a minute, was in enjoyable? Was it as punishing and bad as the demos make it look or was he playing terribly?

I'm not trying to imply Stun you were playing terribly I meant the programmer who did the demo.

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Zansatsu: He also played on Easy with five characters. I didn't die once (and no reloads) in five hours straight, so I guess Adam had a bad beetle day, to be sure!

Edited by IndiraLightfoot

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Maybe I shouldn't play the Beta. :biggrin:

Well, the good news about the beta is that 1) it starts you off with camping supplies and 2) You're never far away from the village inn.

 

Here was my playstyle for the first wilderness map:

 

1)Fight an encounter.

2) Rush back to the tavern to rest.

3) go back and fight another encounter

4) Rush back to the inn to rest.

 

and then in that map's dungeon:

 

1)fight one encounter

2) set camp

3) fight another oncounter

4) set camp

 

If Josh thought he could eliminate or even reduce rest-spamming with his crap design ideas, he was horribly mistaken. I think rested more in this 3-map-beta than I did in 7 chapters of IWD1.

 

 

 

Speaking of resting in inn's, what did you think of the buffs they provided you? How long did they last? Were the buffs different for each class?

 

I believe it was stated that the buffs received from sleeping at inns lasts until you rest again.

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That explains it. I rested six times in RL five hours, so in a sense that really rewards the player for staying alive, I guess.

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I'm okay with removing entirely combat xp if only the maps are void of the so called trash mobs.

there are other methods to avoid people grinding for the sake of it such as implementing a diminishing return mechanic where players get progressively less experience from fighting the same enemy again and again.

 

The problem with removing trashmobs is that those maps start to feel empty. That is a problem when you want to make a game with exploration.

That's why I suggested a diminishing return approach.

 

Another solution is to base combat xp on the difference in level between player and enemy:

 

XP gained = XP coeff * (LevelEnemy - LevelPC) only when LevelEnemy > LevelPC.

XP coeff is an arbitrary value that depends on the opponent type.

Edited by Msxyz
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Speaking of resting in inn's, what did you think of the buffs they provided you? How long did they last? Were the buffs different for each class?

 

Different rooms give different buffs, the buffs are a boost to attributes, they last until you rest and the buffs are the same for everyone.

 

That's why I suggested a diminishing return approach.

 

Another solution is to base combat xp on the difference in level between player and enemy:

 

XP gained = XP coeff * (LevelEnemy - LevelPC) only when LevelEnemy > LevelPC.

XP coeff is an arbitrary value that depends on the opponent type.

 

There is no level scaling in this game, at least not for the trash mobs. That means that creatures don't have levels, so that means that all the creatures of one type are the same (of course with variations like wolf/dire wolf/starved dire wolf/etc.), plus all the creatures are hand placed.

Edited by Sarex
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Another solution is to base combat xp on the difference in level between player and enemy:

XP gained = XP coeff * (LevelEnemy - LevelPC) only when LevelEnemy > LevelPC.

XP coeff is an arbitrary value that depends on the opponent type.

 

 

That leads to disregarding quests and running off to hunt monsters becoming the optimal way to play (if you do quests and gain levels, monsters become worth less xp, meaning there's literally less xp in the world for you to gain). I'm not a fan.

"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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What difficulty was it set on? I'm curious to know if the combat seems on par, more difficult, than it's predecessors.

If the demo suggests anything, it's that PoE doesn't have a predecessor. Or at least not an Infinity engine predecessor. PoE plays (and looks) more like a spiritual successor to ToEE but without ToEE's excellent combat.

 

I'm playing on Normal, but I suspect that 75% of the difficulty is both unintended and artificial. You're going to struggle in combat in this game when your mage takes the loonng way around the dungeon in order to cast a fireball at a group of spiders that are in front of him, thus triggering another group of spiders at the flank, causing your party to be surrounded. And it's kinda tough when your fighter has to take on the front line...without a weapon. Or when you're monitoring your barbarian's frenzy and look over to see that your priest and rogue are doing nothing at all despite the fact that you ordered them to attack the group of lions who are currently munching on their their faces with unnatural speed you can't even see.

 

But mostly, it's hard because I can't get myself to care. Bugged or not, combat in this game does not excite me. There's a dull, mechanical feel to it. It's not "boring" by any stretch. But it's not particularly compelling, either.

Edited by Stun
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PoE plays (and looks) more like a spiritual successor to ToEE but without ToEE's excellent combat.

 

 

If PoE can reach that level of excellence, I would be very happy indeed. Give it time, perhaps it will get there!

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Another solution is to base combat xp on the difference in level between player and enemy:

 

XP gained = XP coeff * (LevelEnemy - LevelPC) only when LevelEnemy > LevelPC.

XP coeff is an arbitrary value that depends on the opponent type.

 

That leads to disregarding quests and running off to hunt monsters becoming the optimal way to play (if you do quests and gain levels, monsters become worth less xp, meaning there's literally less xp in the world for you to gain). I'm not a fan.

You can still learn XP from quests... but also from hard encounters, while preventing at the same time, mindless grinding.

 

In Pillars you're pushed towards quests and combat becomes only a bothersome interruption that, sometimes cannot be avoided.

 

In priciple I like the Elder Scrolls approach where you increase only the attributes you use. I wonder if Obsidian, at some time during development, considered implemting something similar.

Edited by Msxyz
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