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IndiraLightfoot

Experience point system in the beta and onwards

Your thoughts on the xp system in the beta  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. What kind of xp system to do you want to see after having played the beta?

    • Quest xp only
      30
    • Quest xp and objectives that are large in scope
      52
    • Objective xp that are per dungeon or per map (minus bosses), including exploration and quest xp
      78
    • Objective xp per encounter (including "trash mobs"), per picked lock, per sneak, etc., plus quest xp
      53
    • Kill xp plus quest xp
      76


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Speaking of resting in inn's, what did you think of the buffs they provided you? How long did they last? Were the buffs different for each class?

The buffs are universally applied to everyone in your party. The Dragon-level buff honeymoon suite costs 200cp and gives you +2 to might and +2 to a couple other things. The problem is that it's hard to know if they make any difference at all.

 

As for how long they last... well for me, not long lol. They last until you rest again.

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Same buff for everyone? Meh.

Did you choose Might 100% of the time?

 

I didn't play the beta, I saw it in the video from gamescon. I think you get might constitution and some other attribute buff for the most expensive room. I remember the second cheapest giving dexterity, while the cheapest one just lets you rest.

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I am quite dismayed that when I kill something there is no exp gain. I mean how could I not learn something from fighting it? Possibly becoming more effective at killing it. This does bother me.

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Did you choose Might 100% of the time?

Nope. I rotated, just to see if I liked one more than the others.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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(*fulfills his civic duty of voting*  8) )

 

 

There is no level scaling in this game, at least not for the trash mobs. That means that creatures don't have levels, so that means that all the creatures of one type are the same (of course with variations like wolf/dire wolf/starved dire wolf/etc.), plus all the creatures are hand placed.

 

 

Having no level scaling doesn't mean that creatures don't have levels. There could be a level 2 wolf and a level 5 wolf, or bandit. It simply means these levels are not tied to the player's level in any way. Naturally, varied names and diverse visual cues for different enemies of the same species is always a huge bonus.

 

 

Bugged or not, combat in this game does not excite me. There's a dull, mechanical feel to it. 

 

 

Perhaps one of the reasons why some people feel this way is because attack animations are repetitive (one per weapon type).  :shrugz:

It affects our perception of combat on a subconscious level.

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Another solution is to base combat xp on the difference in level between player and enemy:

 

XP gained = XP coeff * (LevelEnemy - LevelPC) only when LevelEnemy > LevelPC.

XP coeff is an arbitrary value that depends on the opponent type.

That leads to disregarding quests and running off to hunt monsters becoming the optimal way to play (if you do quests and gain levels, monsters become worth less xp, meaning there's literally less xp in the world for you to gain). I'm not a fan.

 

You can still learn XP from quests... but also from hard encounters, while preventing at the same time, mindless grinding.

 

 

You misunderstand.

 

Let's assume we have a choice between doing a quest for 1000 xp, or just going out and killing goblins, of which there are 5, and they're all Lvl 3. Let's also assume that we gain a level for every 1000 xp we manage to gather, and that the XP coefficient is 100/goblin.

 

First guy goes out to hunt goblins, and kills all of them. Because he's lvl 1, he gains 100*(3-1)=200 XP for each, meaning his rampage has gained him a level. Yay! He then goes back to the city and does the quest, and in doing so, gains another level. Good for him.

 

Second guy decides he likes the story so far, and this quest thingie seems intriguing, so he starts with the quest. He completes it successfully, gaining 1000 XP which means he has also gained a level! Having his courage bolstered by a bloated HP pool, he goes goblin hunting, and brutally massacres them with his newfound lvl 2 abilities, gaining 100*(3-2)=100 XP for them apiece. His XP total is now sadly 1500, meaning he's a level behind Goblin Hunter Guy, as a punishment for daring to be engaged by the excellent storytelling and finely crafted quests of Obsidian, as opposed to be consumed with a burning desire to try out the likewise excellent combat system.

 

This is bad design. Boo! Hiss!


"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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I was under the impression PoE was using an objective based system, not quest.  From what I've seen so far, it feels like quest based only. 

 

Between the quest experience, the journal losing quests, and having the Rogue, Cleric and Wizard lose their armor/weapons on me periodically when I load a save, I think I'm done for awhile.  (Actually, I don't have enough money to buy armor/weapons for the third time.  :biggrin:)

 

I'll wait and see what they're able to do with updates.  :(

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SqueakyCat: Despair not! (And super-cute new avatar btw) It will be fixed eventually. Until then, just keep playing for the music, the sceneries, the sound effects and most importantly, try out which character you like, or even which party combo that you prefer. Hmm, on the other hand, that's pretty hard f combat is wonky and you are hard-pressed to get any xp for levelling up at all. :)


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I have to read this new thread so I'm responding to a post in the other one since you guys won't let a guy sleep in peace. L0L

 

 

"But removing the choice to do that is not the way to go either. Like Indra said, you are essentially railroading the player in to a specific style of game play."

 

PE si combat focused, and outside of ssneaking there is no way to avoid majority of combat in the game since enemies are usdually insta hostile and also camp right at the area entrance. ie. Beetles and lions.

 

 

Now to read other posts and comment on those...

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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SqueakyCat: Despair not! (And super-cute new avatar btw) It will be fixed eventually. Until then, just keep playing for the music, the sceneries, the sound effects and most importantly, try out which character you like, or even which party combo that you prefer. Hmm, on the other hand, that's pretty hard f combat is wonky and you are hard-pressed to get any xp for levelling up at all. :)

 

I may start a new game later.  After my Cleric and/or Rogue/Wizard lost their gear for the third time, I admit to a certain amount of discouragement (and I was broke).  Plus, I was afraid the local law would throw me in debtor's prison or arrest me as a vagrant.  :p

 

If I could set aside 3 or 4 hours to play non-stop so I wouldn't need to load a save file, it would probably go better since some of the issues happen at that time.  Oh well, I'll read the forums for awhile and try again later or tomorrow.   :)

 

Thanks about the avatar!

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I am quite dismayed that when I kill something there is no exp gain. I mean how could I not learn something from fighting it? Possibly becoming more effective at killing it. This does bother me.

And that's really all that needs to be said about this. You get better at something by doing it, so doing something should provide XP. Doesn't matter if it's combat, picking a lock, sneaking, crafting, whatever.

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There is a road that I must travel
Let it be paved or unseen
May I be hindered by a thousand stones
Still onward I'd crawl down on my knees.

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SqueakyCat: That's what I managed to do, super-early in the morning (I'm so tired now at work). But I almost lost half my money when I ended with paying 4,000 cp for a level 4 adventurer, and then I got a lvl 1 adventurer instead. :facepalm:

Edited by IndiraLightfoot
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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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PE si combat focused, and outside of ssneaking there is no way to avoid majority of combat in the game since enemies are usdually insta hostile and also camp right at the area entrance. ie. Beetles and lions.

 

I agree.

 

 

SqueakyCat: That's what I managed to do, super-early in the morning (I'm so tired now at work). But I almost lost half my money when I ended with paying 4,000 cp for a level 4 adventurer, and then I got a lvl 1 adventurer instead. :facepalm:

 

That is why you save-scum.

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Or not: Read what happened to SqueakyCat - there are currently issues of stuff disappearing if you do. In hindsight,  I was sorta lucky I didn't have to reload a single time.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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NooooOOoooooo! Im a chronic re-loader, Im going to be naked before I even clear the basement of rats. :(

 

I'd hold off until at least the next beta build but probably the one (or two) after that depending on what they fix first


Free games updated 3/6/19

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NooooOOoooooo! Im a chronic re-loader, Im going to be naked before I even clear the basement of rats. :(

 

You and me both.

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"we just need to see if Josh can swallow his pride a bit.."
 

 Problem is he won't do that. I mean he's already labeeld those who disagree with him 'grognards' even thoguh he actually fits the description.

 

He's simply wrong with how they're going about xp. Even his own boss disagreed with him but relented to Sawyer's 'vision'.

 

No combat xp worked in SRR. It doesnt' work here.

 

To be more positive so I'm not 'picking on Sawyer'; there are stuff he has done well for the game and kudos to that thoguh it's wrong thread for those kudos.

 

 

 Bottom line is player should be rewarded for overcoming challenges. So far, in PE Beta, the player is not. That's a fail. Even the anti xp people are slowly seeing this.

 

Volourn was right again. Don't pull a Troika or a POR;ROMD , Obsidian. :)

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Another solution is to base combat xp on the difference in level between player and enemy:

XP gained = XP coeff * (LevelEnemy - LevelPC) only when LevelEnemy > LevelPC.

XP coeff is an arbitrary value that depends on the opponent type.

 

That leads to disregarding quests and running off to hunt monsters becoming the optimal way to play (if you do quests and gain levels, monsters become worth less xp, meaning there's literally less xp in the world for you to gain). I'm not a fan.

 

You can still learn XP from quests... but also from hard encounters, while preventing at the same time, mindless grinding.

 

You misunderstand.

 

Let's assume we have a choice between doing a quest for 1000 xp, or just going out and killing goblins, of which there are 5, and they're all Lvl 3. Let's also assume that we gain a level for every 1000 xp we manage to gather, and that the XP coefficient is 100/goblin.

 

First guy goes out to hunt goblins, and kills all of them. Because he's lvl 1, he gains 100*(3-1)=200 XP for each, meaning his rampage has gained him a level. Yay! He then goes back to the city and does the quest, and in doing so, gains another level. Good for him.

 

Second guy decides he likes the story so far, and this quest thingie seems intriguing, so he starts with the quest. He completes it successfully, gaining 1000 XP which means he has also gained a level! Having his courage bolstered by a bloated HP pool, he goes goblin hunting, and brutally massacres them with his newfound lvl 2 abilities, gaining 100*(3-2)=100 XP for them apiece. His XP total is now sadly 1500, meaning he's a level behind Goblin Hunter Guy, as a punishment for daring to be engaged by the excellent storytelling and finely crafted quests of Obsidian, as opposed to be consumed with a burning desire to try out the likewise excellent combat system.

 

This is bad design. Boo! Hiss!

Point taken.

 

The diminishing returns then must not be based on level alone but on experience against specific enemies.

 

Let's say the first goblin your party kills nets you 400 xp, the second 200 xp, the third 100 xp and so on till you get only one meager point per kill. This system shoul be safe and sound enough.

 

Of course the way you resolve your quests influences the outcome, I'm not expecting a situation where a quest can be resolved in X different manners each yielding exactly the same amount of XP. Part of the fun of replaying a RPG is seeing different parties progressing in different directions using different tactics and strategies.

 

Powerplayers will always find a way to abuse a system: even this. Having XP tied to quests will also punish those players who don't complete all the sidequests within a single run because they feel some don't fit in their party ethics or because they want to place the enphasis on the mainquest.

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NooooOOoooooo! Im a chronic re-loader, Im going to be naked before I even clear the basement of rats. :(

 

It doesn't happen every time.  The funny thing is, in order to get the quests back in the journal (if they disappear), you have to exit to the main menu and then reload your save.  If you reload a save, you may (or not) lose some gear from the companions.  It happened three times for me, but I had stopped and started playing several other times and didn't lose any armor/weapons.  One time I think was simply entering a shop (or at least that's when I noticed a couple of the companions in their undies).

 

Oh well, it's beta after all.  Give it a try -- you may get lucky and your companions won't strip down for you.  :)

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Although, I said I was waiting for the beta to continue this debate I am lucky to get a single quest finished before the quest log flips out on me because of one reason or another. I don't feel I can make an informed decision until I can play it how it was intended. I am still in support of objective xp, but I would like a fairly unbiased play of the system before falling on one side or the other. So, I am holding out on voting while neither condoning or condemning the present system. The present bug situation makes it easy to hate the system, and that is unfair to Josh IMHO. I want to see it working.

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NooooOOoooooo! Im a chronic re-loader, Im going to be naked before I even clear the basement of rats. :(

Ask Alyth for a refund.

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I cannot form a valid opinion until the Quest bug is fixed.

 

Man, I sound like a broken record.

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