The final marketing drive - looking for a mainstream audience? Target the MOBA crowd

[Sarex]

Not sure I would use the term "Moba" and the word "tactical" in the same sentence.  They rarely require tactics beyond "don't do something stupid like fighting 3 other guys alone".  They are just about min maxing, builds, micro management, and twitch skills. 

 

I can't even begin to describe to you how wrong you are... Mobas have more tactics then all the IE games combined and they depend much more on said tactics then any of the IE games did, this of course only applies to the highest level of gameplay in the Mobas. In the example of LoL, which I am familiar with, each group of champions you play bring with them their own tactics for victory.

 

I could go on and name all the tactics used in LoL right now but I doubt it would mean much to you as you obviously don't play the games, or if you do you aren't in a high enough tier where they are used.

 

I say all of this as a huge IE fan and worth adding that I would trade all the mobas for a great IE style game.

[Malekith]

Not sure I would use the term "Moba" and the word "tactical" in the same sentence.  They rarely require tactics beyond "don't do something stupid like fighting 3 other guys alone".  They are just about min maxing, builds, micro management, and twitch skills. 

 

I agree with Ink Blot, if you want to market this at a large gamer audience target Dragon Age fans (who should naturally be interested hopefully) and or people discovering Divinity Original Sin.

And the PoE isn't? That's why i said that as far as gameplay goes, these audiences will be interested.

 

Ink Blot, i never said that they should not market the game to Dragon Age's or Witcher's audience. And of course not all of Bioware's audience or CDPR audience won't care only about graphics or romances, the same as not all of MOBA's audiences aren't PVP only.

I'm just saying that PoE in many aspects is closet to these games than Mass Effect or Witcher 2. Don't forget that the IE games were build in a strategy engine, and as far as their controls, presentation and combat went, they were very similar to strategy games.

I know many old IE fans that cannot stand most modern RPGs but they moved away into strategy games and MOBAs.  It stand to reason that some of these games' audiences would move from these games to PoE style games with a litlle effort.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Malekith

[Uomoz]

I'm a rabid dota player (3000+h) but I also rank Torment and BG as the best games ever, so I feel that the OP opinion has some very good merits.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Uomoz

[Tartantyco]

They should distribute the backer beta to notable let's players and vodcasters like Totalbiscuit, Northernlion, Quill18, and so on.

[Panteleimon]

They should distribute the backer beta to notable let's players and vodcasters like Totalbiscuit, Northernlion, Quill18, and so on.

 

I would absolutely watch Northernlion play the beta(and the game in general) . I think it's up his alley.

[Grand_Commander13]

They should distribute the backer beta to notable let's players and vodcasters like Totalbiscuit, Northernlion, Quill18, and so on.

 

Bad idea. The beta is to sort out bug and balance issues. It would be far better to wait until a week or two before release and give them a copy of the finished game.

[Elerond]

Focus on MOBAs is in competitive co-operative multiplayer. They usually have strategic layer where it is important to select right characters for you team so that they work against characters in opposite team and they usually also offer ability to ban certain number characters from selection pool, which means that you need to know how to play multiple character to actually be successful in the game. And banning right characters is also quite important strategic aspect as it gives your team ability to remove some character's from the selection pool that are more difficulty handle by characters that your team know how to play. MOBAs also have tactical layer, where it is important to know when your team should farm (usually killing some sort constantly pawning minions), take environmental bonuses (usually by killing neutral monsters), when to ambush try enemies, when to go in team fights. And then there is personal skill layer, which consist from players understanding how character's skills work and how they can be combined, especially with skills of other characters, how to move, knowledge when you should engage with enemies and when to run, how to build your character especially taking in considering what characters and builds player/s on your line in opposite team have.

 

So there are some aspects in MOBAs that are similar to some aspects in PoE, but I would say that main hook in is different, but that don't mean that there isn't players that like PoE and MOBAs (it should be noted that all players that like one MOBA don't necessary like [all] other MOBAs) both. 

 

My opinion to OP's point is that even though MOBA players are numerous, I would focus main marketing efforts on players some other games, like players of bigger single player focused games.

[Ztirual]

I agree with Ink Blot, if you want to market this at a large gamer audience target Dragon Age fans (who should naturally be interested hopefully) and or people discovering Divinity Original Sin.

This seems about right. I don't really know that many people, even less who play these kinds of games, but I mentioned PoE (as well as D: OS) to one or two who had little to no knowledge about the IE games, although they had previously played DA:O, D3, or Skyrim. And as I explained it to them there was immediately a spark of interest and enthusiasm, regardless of what knowledge they had of the IE games or PoE. So the game 'sold' itself, and not really my explanation of it. Now, I think that those players who desire to be challenged and really think out situations, apply their minds, their logic, their reasoning and so on, while at the same feel deeply involved as they live and make a story with their own character, those players are sooner or later going to discover PoE - or rather, PoE is going to discover them. Because if the game stands it's own ground, it will, in spite of marketing, find its way - like a good song, and good songs are very rarely heard on the radio.

[Trodat]

They should distribute the backer beta to notable let's players and vodcasters like Totalbiscuit, Northernlion, Quill18, and so on.

 

Famous Dota 2 player SingSing sometimes plays and streams other games, I'm sure some people would buy PE just because they see their god playing it.

[IndiraLightfoot]

All these target groups would help and are worth the effort on Paradox's behalf, IMHO, but if I have to rank them, here's my little list:

-Dragon Age crowd

-D:OS crowd (prio: new to the genre)

-Grimrock/M&M X-crowd (prio: new to the genre)

-D3/Path of Exile crowd

-MOBA crowd

[Trodat]

All these target groups would help and are worth the effort on Paradox's behalf, IMHO, but if I have to rank them, here's my little list:

-Dragon Age crowd

 

 

Dragon Age crowd is basically the casuals of rpg gaming. Why would they be interested in a game that lacks all of the important AAA game functions like fully voiced characters, cinematics, 3D world and so on?

[IndiraLightfoot]

Good question: I can only hope that by trying it, they'll get a feel for its superior RPG qualities.

[Infinitron]

 

All these target groups would help and are worth the effort on Paradox's behalf, IMHO, but if I have to rank them, here's my little list:

-Dragon Age crowd

 

 

Dragon Age crowd is basically the casuals of rpg gaming. Why would they be interested in a game that lacks all of the important AAA game functions like fully voiced characters, cinematics, 3D world and so on?

 

 

Because it's still more similar to Pillars than any other mainstream game aside from difficulty and presentation

Edited August 15, 2014 by Infinitron

[Elerond]

Dragon Age group is interested on stories and have show ability to follow through 60+ hours of story driven content, which is something that players from most other genres aren't used. So I would say that it is for them easier to embrace more complex game mechanics, than it would be many players with more complex game mechanics to follow through 60+ hours of story, when they have used to smaller memory loads, even if they play games of their choosing hundreds or thousands of hours. 

[sibakruom]

Dragon Age crowd is basically the casuals of rpg gaming. Why would they be interested in a game that lacks all of the important AAA game functions like fully voiced characters, cinematics, 3D world and so on?

 

 

What does "casuals" even means, and why wouldn't they be interested in PoE?

The average RPG player probably hasn't changed much in the last 15 years or so, it's the games that changed. Give a "casual RPG player" a good RPG and they will enjoy it as much as an "old school RPG player" would.

[Failion]

MOBA games are like rts games for degenerates. There is I say 1/4th of the thinking involved if you compare say company of heroes with all its expansion packs to league of legends if you know all the champs. Have a 2/1 lead on your enemy? Turn off your brain you won the game already unless you do something incredibly dumb. There are very few tactics in moba games they are essentially designed 4kids and girls.

 

 

[Sonntam]

 

All these target groups would help and are worth the effort on Paradox's behalf, IMHO, but if I have to rank them, here's my little list:

-Dragon Age crowd

 

 

Dragon Age crowd is basically the casuals of rpg gaming. Why would they be interested in a game that lacks all of the important AAA game functions like fully voiced characters, cinematics, 3D world and so on?

 

Bioware fans are not fans of gameplay or the graphics (seriously, DA:O graphics sucked so hard, but look how many fans that game had). What they want are well fleshed out characters, meaningful choices and ability to roleplay your character. That's what PoE will shine at. 

 

I personally recommended PoE to all my friends and many were quite interested in it. I'm positive that once they've finished DA:I they will be quite happy to check PoE out. There will be years till the next Bioware title and good RPGs are hard to come by. 

[Trodat]

 

Dragon Age crowd is basically the casuals of rpg gaming. Why would they be interested in a game that lacks all of the important AAA game functions like fully voiced characters, cinematics, 3D world and so on?

 

 

What does "casuals" even means, and why wouldn't they be interested in PoE?

The average RPG player probably hasn't changed much in the last 15 years or so, it's the games that changed. Give a "casual RPG player" a good RPG and they will enjoy it as much as an "old school RPG player" would.

 

 

Fanbase of DA games is pretty big. And some of those people will indeed enjoy PoE. I just have this feeling, that the "core" crowd concists of people that just like a non frustrating adventure and are really into "immersive" stuff like romances, cool cinematics with voice overs etc. PoE is supposed to be a decent challenge difficulty wise, that may scare them away. I didn't play DA2 so I cant comment on how hard it was. I still think that for many people isometric viewpoint with prerenders is a no-no.

 

Someone commented that gamers who enjoyed the IE games moved away to different type of games instead of playing the newer ones. I feel this is pretty much spot on.

[IndiraLightfoot]

MOBA games are like rts games for degenerates. There is I say 1/4th of the thinking involved if you compare say company of heroes with all its expansion packs to league of legends if you know all the champs. Have a 2/1 lead on your enemy? Turn off your brain you won the game already unless you do something incredibly dumb. There are very few tactics in moba games they are essentially designed 4kids and girls.

I wouldn't put it in such harsh words, but yes, I reckon StarCraft and COH are far more demanding and deep for the single player than MOBA-games. The two former ones take years to master - even the basic controls and units and simple combined arms tactics take months (I'm speaking from experience).

[Sarex]

I wouldn't put it in such harsh words, but yes, I reckon StarCraft and COH are far more demanding and deep for the single player than MOBA-games. The two former ones take years to master - even the basic controls and units and simple combined arms tactics take months (I'm speaking from experience).

 

Speaking from experience for mobas too?

[IndiraLightfoot]

Not personally, but I have close friends that speak of nothing else - and they rank pretty high most of them. Thing is - they've tried both extensively and come to that conclusion, so that's what I build my claim upon. I hope it's worth something.

[Sarex]

Not personally, but I have close friends that speak of nothing else - and they rank pretty high most of them. Thing is - they've tried both extensively and come to that conclusion, so that's what I build my claim upon. I hope it's worth something.

 

How high is high? Diamond 5, Diamond 1, High Diamond 1, Challenger, what server? Take a look at professional matches in lol or dota 2 and compare them to star craft 2. Both type of games take time to master and both can't be mastered over night.

[Elerond]

 

 

Dragon Age crowd is basically the casuals of rpg gaming. Why would they be interested in a game that lacks all of the important AAA game functions like fully voiced characters, cinematics, 3D world and so on?

 

 

What does "casuals" even means, and why wouldn't they be interested in PoE?

The average RPG player probably hasn't changed much in the last 15 years or so, it's the games that changed. Give a "casual RPG player" a good RPG and they will enjoy it as much as an "old school RPG player" would.

 

 

Fanbase of DA games is pretty big. And some of those people will indeed enjoy PoE. I just have this feeling, that the "core" crowd concists of people that just like a non frustrating adventure and are really into "immersive" stuff like romances, cool cinematics with voice overs etc. PoE is supposed to be a decent challenge difficulty wise, that may scare them away. I didn't play DA2 so I cant comment on how hard it was. I still think that for many people isometric viewpoint with prerenders is a no-no.

 

Someone commented that gamers who enjoyed the IE games moved away to different type of games instead of playing the newer ones. I feel this is pretty much spot on.

 

 

If you put PoE in easy settings I am quite sure that it will not be too much challenge to anybody who has played DA:O through and like it so much that they can be called as fans.

 

And I don't think that anybody that played DA:O on PC and like it will say that isometric viewpoint is no-no and I think most of them would get over prerendered backgrounds (or more specifically over the fact that you can't turn the camera).

 

If PoE story is as compelling as I hope it will be, then I would say that most fans of DA:O will also like PoE. Biggest problem is to get those fans try it in first place. 

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

Not personally, but I have close friends that speak of nothing else - and they rank pretty high most of them. Thing is - they've tried both extensively and come to that conclusion, so that's what I build my claim upon. I hope it's worth something.

 

How high is high? Diamond 5, Diamond 1, High Diamond 1, Challenger, what server? Take a look at professional matches in lol or dota 2 and compare them to star craft 2. Both type of games take time to master and both can't be mastered over night.

 

Absolutely. It takes heaps of skills in both these categories. As for my friends, they are not at all elite or anything, although they do love LoL in particular. They rank from upper Gold to upper Platinum.

[Sarex]

Absolutely. It takes heaps of skills in both these categories. As for my friends, they are not at all elite or anything, although they do love LoL in particular. They rank from upper Gold to upper Platinum.

 

Ok take this how you will but those aren't high tiers. I am Diamond 3 and I still don't consider myself high tier. High tier in LoL is High diamond 1 (80 lp and up) through Challenger. I think I could be low diamond 1 if I played on the EUW server because my ping is 200 on the NA server, which means that any twitch reaction is near impossible, but either way I think I will make it to Diamond one by the end of the season (year).

 

To further elaborate, you can get to Diamond 5 on skill alone. What this means is you have incredible mechanical skill and can outplay your enemy in lane. After D5 you need to make good decisions (this is what I'm good at most of the times) and in D1 and up you need to be able to do both at an incredible level. What makes this even harder is that you need to do this with 4 other people, which usually means that you need to carry one or more of them to win. You also need to be proficient enough in other roles, because you will not always get your main role, so you have to preform on a level where you can at least hold your lane until team fights start.

 

So to conclude your friends aren't near good enough, to be able to make those claims. They are simply on a level where mechanical skill alone can win you the game.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Sarex