The state of Feminism, the good the bad

[Fighter]

I can't believe how you people can be unable to grasp how utterly ridiculous it is to an outside observer when you're running around yelling "women are weaker than men!" while being yourself weaker than a significant percentage of women.

 

Seriously, am I the only one who finds that attitude hilarious?

 

If your outside observer doesn't understand what is being talked about. It's like comparing two football teams and then someone saying, "But you can't play in any of them."

 

And let me just be arrogant and pet my self on the back since you're trying to shame people. I'm pretty strong even for a man and trained since I was little. The women that are stronger than me are probably points of a percent if not less most likely.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

And let me just be arrogant and pet my self on the back since you're trying to shame people. I'm pretty strong even for a man and trained since I was little. The women that are stronger than me are probably points of a percent if not less most likely.

 

And since we're on the internet where, if not for my avatar, none of you would know I'm secretly a cat, I'll be generous and assume you also have a 14-inch ****.

[Orogun01]

 

And let me just be arrogant and pet my self on the back since you're trying to shame people. I'm pretty strong even for a man and trained since I was little. The women that are stronger than me are probably points of a percent if not less most likely.

 

And since we're on the internet where, if not for my avatar, none of you would know I'm secretly a cat, I'll be generous and assume you also have a 14-inch ****.

 

Well that explains why you're so fussy.

[Fighter]

And since we're on the internet where, if not for my avatar, none of you would know I'm secretly a cat, I'll be generous and assume you also have a 14-inch ****.

 

You can believe whatever you like.

 

Yet it was you who proclaimed there is a significant percentage of women that are stronger than anyone here even though as you point out it's the internet and you've got no idea who everyone is.

 

I'm not being unreasonable. How many people proportion wise in the world, men or women, are even athletic above the average reasonably fit person. Small percentage. Among the women in this category how many are even strength or martial arts athletes at all. Tiny, tiny, tiny percentage compared to the whole population. And the percentage that are great at it is even tinier.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

And since we're on the internet where, if not for my avatar, none of you would know I'm secretly a cat, I'll be generous and assume you also have a 14-inch ****.

 

You can believe whatever you like.

 

Yet it was you who proclaimed there is a significant percentage of women that are stronger than anyone here even though as you point out it's the internet and you've got no idea who everyone is.

 

I'm not being unreasonable. How many people proportion wise in the world, men or women, are even athletic above the average reasonably fit person. Small percentage. Among the women in this category how many are even strength or martial arts athletes at all. Tiny, tiny, tiny percentage compared to the whole population. And the percentage that are great at it is even tinier.

 

 

You're not being unreasonable, but I don't think I'm being unreasonable either when I assume that most people who post here will fit the profile of the average internet user, who's, let's face it, not especially athletic

[Fighter]

Fair enough.

[Blarghagh]

Yeah, I was originally going to make a comment like "well, I'm in the top percentile of purple elephants", but I see alum beat me to it. Regardless, for all your posturing you have said something as meaningless as a blank page even if it is true. You might be in the top percentile of a very large group of men who live strength based lifestyles - a deviation from the standard. But the group of women who live strength based lifestyles is small, they will not have as many deviations from the standard. Just saying you are stronger than women without taking that into account is like saying "water is wet". If you are what you say you are then you are stronger because of your lifestyle and because you are a standard deviation, and so few women beat you at it because you there are so few women who share that lifestyle and deviate that far from the standard.

[Fighter]

*shrug*

 

Personally I think the amount of women that are stronger than even the average healthy male is quiet small in proportion to the entire population. In my opinion this would turn out to be true if anyone counted.

[Malcador]

Seems pretty obvious.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Personally I think the amount of women that are stronger than even the average healthy male is quiet small in proportion to the entire population. In my opinion this would turn out to be true if anyone counted.

 

Quite likely, but I'd also wager that the number of average healthy males (who'd satisfy your criteria for that label) would also be quite small in proportion to the entire population.

[Blarghagh]

Even if so, that would be because women and men in general still live different lifestyles. The hole is becoming smaller but gender roles are still a very real thing. By the time anyone can really make an objective, biological fact and statistic based conclusion the whole discussion is mute anyway because you would need a population that is, or is close to, being completely equal in rights and desires - i.e. the same. Don't need feminism if you're equal.

[Fighter]

By the time anyone can really make an objective, biological fact and statistic based conclusion the whole discussion is mute anyway because you would need a population that is, or is close to, being completely equal in rights and desires.

 

Basically the population that are competitive athletes. They have the same desires and work just as hard. Pretty good sample size to see development potential when all things are equal. Anyway I'm not saying any more on this as it's dragged on quiet a bit.

[Volourn]

"You guys have chased most of the female members away from the forum Malc. So you are right, the chance of us getting a female perspective is unlikely ;)"

 

I like the implied sexism of how you view women to be protected and babied like little children. I treat all posters the same no matter their gender. If they can't handle it not my problem. But, I respect women more than you. They can handle it just like men can.

[BruceVC]

"You guys have chased most of the female members away from the forum Malc. So you are right, the chance of us getting a female perspective is unlikely ;)"

 

I like the implied sexism of how you view women to be protected and babied like little children. I treat all posters the same no matter their gender. If they can't handle it not my problem. But, I respect women more than you. They can handle it just like men can.

 

Yes Volo, you clearly respect women. That's why you suggested that men and women compete directly  against each other in sport, great respect there

Edited September 3, 2014 by BruceVC

[Volourn]

That is respect. I believe they are equal. Are you sarcastically claiming women are NOT good enough to compete with men (or vice versa)? Either way, that is sexist.

 

 

I surely wouldn't want to face either of the Williams sisters in tennis. They'd kick my butt!

[BruceVC]

That is respect. I believe they are equal. Are you sarcastically claiming women are NOT good enough to compete with men (or vice versa)? Either way, that is sexist.

 

 

I surely wouldn't want to face either of the Williams sisters in tennis. They'd kick my butt!

 

So you would support full contact competitive  rugby between men and women?

[Volourn]

Sure. If the women *AND* men were capable of passing the physical/skill requirements. Absolutely.

 

I'm male. I would never be able to physically pass the requirements to play football. But, if a woman was good enough to do so, I'd happily have no problem with it. Why would you if you aren't sexist?

 

I wouldn't expect a 5'0" 125 lb woman to be able to play in the NFL any more than a 5'0" 125lb man would. Duh.

[Gfted1]

[Malcador]

So you would support full contact competitive  rugby between men and women?

That could be fun to watch, see how each would adjust tactics to try to diminish weak points.

[BruceVC]

 

 

That is respect. I believe they are equal. Are you sarcastically claiming women are NOT good enough to compete with men (or vice versa)? Either way, that is sexist.

 

 

I surely wouldn't want to face either of the Williams sisters in tennis. They'd kick my butt!

 

So you would support full contact competitive  rugby between men and women?

 

So, after few pages of feminist-boys claiming that women are physically if not equal than superior we are bashed for wanting equality in sports because apparently women are not physically fit to compete with men...guys get your sh*t together and form some coherent view of what you are fighting for.

 

 

No, no, no...you  misunderstand

 

Firstly the people on this thread who are supporting feminist ideals don't have the exact same views on all topics related to feminism. I have never supported the idea that men and women should play full contact sport against each other because if I look at the South African rugby team and the women's team its obvious that the mens team have the physical advantage and the game would be very unfair

[Elerond]

 

 

 

Except... not really. A woman who devotes her life fully to becoming good at killing people will be better at killing people than 95% of her less devoted male peers.

 

I'm talking about the average. I really did not think I would have to say it. The strongest and fastest of women never were and never will be (unless we evolve somehow) as strong or as fast as the strongest and fastest of men. On average this will always show.

 

 

Facts are against you. It has nothing to do with evolution. It has to do with equal (ly lack of) food and equally hard work.

 

No they are not. Equal food and equal work will produce a stronger male. This is a scientific fact unless you are going to tell me women in the past had the same amounts of testosterone as men.

 

If what you say were true women and men could compete in physical sports without the division. But they can't.

 

 

 

I can send you some sources, but they are in Danish.

 

 

Please translate these sources to English and then share them with us, don't be lazy

 

 

I come up with this article today I though it could interest you

Better Identification of Viking Corpses Reveals: Half of the Warriors Were Female

 

Which is based on this article

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/sciencefair/post/2011/07/invasion-of-the-viking-women-unearthed/1?csp=34tech&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+usatoday-TechTopStories+%28Tech+-+Top+Stories%29&siteID=je6NUbpObpQ-K0N7ZWh0LJjcLzI4zsnGxg#.VAcpkObBDu1

 

Academic paper itself is sadly behind paywall

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-0254.2011.00323.x/abstract

[Meshugger]

Err, those articles speculate more on Vikings arriving as married colonists, rather than pillaging rapists. Nothing about norse women-warriors being equal in battle and all that.

[Elerond]

Err, those articles speculate more on Vikings arriving as married colonists, rather than pillaging rapists. Nothing about norse women-warriors being equal in battle and all that.

 

They also tell that those Norse women were buried with swords and shields and other viking warrior burial rites, which is why they were previously thought to be men.

 

But I can't say what the researcher actually said in his paper as I didn't feel to pay $50 to get 24h access on his paper.

[Meshugger]

Eh, that is not unreasonable at all in itself. It has been quite well known that the Vikings had local democracies-like societies, where eldery women were elected as village-leaders and such. 

 

I thought that the articles were leading to the sudden discovery that half of the Viking fighting-force were women, so manly that there were almost no difference from men. Kinda like the Celts.

[Volourn]

"I have never supported the idea that men and women should play full contact sport against each other"

 

That's because you are sexist. I am not. I believe in equality and fairness. You do not. You put women up on a pedestal to be protected and babied like little children. I do not. I treat women like the adults they are. You do not.