Game looks great, but...

[IndiraLightfoot]

On the D3 mockup: Either go with sketches a la scripted events (one male and one female per class and race - it's a bit of work, but clearly doable, or go for some neutral outline doll (extremely cheap version - not my preferred option). Like Zwiebelchen says - it would lend the game that right feel, IMHO.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

You can see it ingame at any time. Imho, the 3D preview has no real value to it, considering the only customization option you have is the two colors anyway.

 

I think a high resolution large-scale portrait of IWD 2 feels the most immersive.

 

Having both portrait and ingame appearance visible at the same time - at least at the current scale of the preview - really emphasizes the disconnect between portrait and ingame model.

 

I like that mockup that was posted. Great solution!

 

This is btw how the appearance tab in IWD looked like. I think the focus should be on the portrait and not the 3D model - because I want to design the ingame appearance after the portrait, not the other way round.

 

 

The D3 mock up looks crap. And it would break immersion to have a colour portrait and pencil sketch that don't even look the same. And the way dev's are doing it is just a continuation of IWD2 with the model in the inventory. It's just a natural progression of the IE games. Going to sketches is a huge WTF. For people who say it breaks immersion with the colour portrait not looking like the in game model, I would say a pencil sketch breaks immersion as it won't even look like the in game model as well. And it feels really cheap. Yeah we could have done 3D models in the inventory but went with a pencil sketch instead.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Zwiebelchen]

Another mockup with the idea that the portrait is the second choice right after gender:

Edited August 1, 2014 by Zwiebelchen

[IndiraLightfoot]

Zwiebelchen: Aha! I think you're proposing that we use some almost full-length portraits that we then place hovering item slots on top. Pretty interesting idea, since mere sketches probably would look cheap (because I fear that lots of people would agree with Hiro on that point).

Edited August 1, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Zwiebelchen]

Zwiebelchen: Aha! I think you're proposing that we use some almost full-length portraits that we then place hovering item slots on top. Pretty interesting idea, since mere sketches probably would look cheap (because I fear that lots of people would agree with Hiro on that point).

 

The mockup was just for the character creation, but this is a really fantastic idea for the inventory! 

Just use the portrait and use a sepia/wooden colors filter on top of it, then apply the inventory slots on top of it.

 

Someone has to make another mockup of this idea!

Edited August 1, 2014 by Zwiebelchen

[adam77]

Another mockup with the idea that the portrait is the second choice right after gender:

This looks nice! Great

[Michael_Galt]

After watching some of the gameplay videos, I have mixed feelings about the graphical presentation.

 

First: The UI looks awesome! And it catches that Infinity engine vibe just fine. I also love how big the letters on the dialogue box are. The handful of tweaks (like the character select buttons in the looting window) that had been done over the IWD UI are well thought-out. Trade window is a little aged in terms of user comfort, but it catches the classic feel just fine.

 

However, I have a lot of concerns about the general game graphics, especially the textures. The backgrounds vary from being extremely detailed (I love some of the floor tiles on the temple), to totally blurry (the earth parts in the first area). I guess the paintover job is already done on the starting area? I feel that the IWD 2 backgrounds looked a lot more crisp and sharp compared to the first videos of PoE... I hope it's just the movie resolution fooling me.

 

And then, there's the character models. They look great in the isometric perspective, but in the inventory and character creation, they just don't match the graphical quality of the UI. I don't think the 3D models should be shown in both menues. Why not just show a sketch-like drawing of an adventurer in the background with icons of the equipments in the specific positions?

 

In the character creation screen, I guess such a preview is unavoidable if we want to select colors, but at least a little downscaling couldn't hurt... you could possibly make the windows a bit larger (like the description window) and reduce the space for the preview picture. It's not the perfect solution, but having the character that big in the character creation menu really reveals the low texture resolution of characters in PoE.

I second all of that.  I really like how it looks, in game, for the most part.  But, I really disliked how the character creation screen looked.  Honestly, to me, it just looked ugly.  I really didn't like it.  And if that is what I have to see in the inventory screen as well... Damn.

[Karkarov]

You guys REALLY need to wait for the real game not a compressed video on some website where you are forced to choose a barbarian in rags.  The character model does look ugly, it also happens to be wearing ugly gear with ugly color choices.  I am sure that isn't a contributing factor at all.

Meanwhile we are two weeks from a "near final" beta.  It is too late in the game to do some massive overhaul of character creation.  You could argue that it is not a "near final" beta but I would remind you this is the same company that wouldn't let media outlets have control of the demo for fear of them showing or seeing something that was not polished enough for their liking.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Karkarov

[Michael_Galt]

 

 

I think a lot of people would like 2D Paperdolls, but they would require a massive amount of 2D art time, this project only has 2 x 2D artists that I am aware of.

 

It's crazy the amount of stuff that Kaz has to do, which means we may not get heaps of his portraits :(

I do not know why it would be a big problem. Here are a few examples that demonstrate how easy it can be achieved.

 

- smaller 3d character (Icewind dale 2) (pic 01)

- use just portrait illustration as the preview image during the character selection (bg 1, bg 2, iwd 1,2....) (pic 02)

- or use something like this (pic_03_03b) just more "infinity engine" look

 

Pic 04 is showing how is now.

 

Compare. Feel.

 

Pic 04 is childish for me, and reminds me too much on the game type wow.

 

I like all of those other options better than the current example we have.  To me, the one they have shown is just butt-ugly, and I'm not talking about about a nice-butt, butt-ugly, but a Rosie O'Donnell butt.  I'm sure some modders can change it, if need be, so won't be too worried about it. 

[Malekith]

Meanwhile we are two weeks from a "near final" beta.  It is too late in the game to do some massive overhaul of character creation.  You could argue that it is not a "near final" beta but I would remind you this is the same company that wouldn't let media outlets have control of the demo for fear of them showing or seeing something that was not polished enough for their liking.

Beta is exactly for us to give feedback on the game and propose changes. Plus changing the perpective of the 3D model to be exactly like ingame (Top down view, tiny) won't cost anything significant. At least have this as an option.

[Silent Winter]

 

Beta is exactly for us to give feedback on the game and propose changes. Plus changing the perpective of the 3D model to be exactly like ingame (Top down view, tiny) won't cost anything significant. At least have this as an option.

 

If it's an option, I wouldn't mind, but I much prefer the zoomed in and face on for character creation screen.  (Though as said earlier, customisation of avatar should come after portrait selection, which in turn should come after gender, class and culture selection, but that's not a biggie).

 

Edit: Having more camera control in CC would fix this - allow us to rotate in more than just one plane and zoom camera - you can then view it how you like.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Silent Winter

[Malekith]

 

 

Beta is exactly for us to give feedback on the game and propose changes. Plus changing the perpective of the 3D model to be exactly like ingame (Top down view, tiny) won't cost anything significant. At least have this as an option.

 

If it's an option, I wouldn't mind, but I much prefer the zoomed in and face on for character creation screen.  (Though as said earlier, customisation of avatar should come after portrait selection, which in turn should come after gender, class and culture selection, but that's not a biggie).

 

Edit: Having more camera control in CC would fix this - allow us to rotate in more than just one plane and zoom camera - you can then view it how you like.

 

I want either a picture with painted slots, or a fixed isometric view. Allowind the camera to move around won't fix the problem, which is that the 3D model looks like **** when zoomed in

[Silent Winter]

I want either a picture with painted slots, or a fixed isometric view. Allowind the camera to move around won't fix the problem, which is that the 3D model looks like **** when zoomed in

 

In your opinion - In mine it looks great and I want it zoomed in.

I was just thinking of it from the POV that some people want the isometric angle to see what it looks like in game but others want it like it is now.

 

Taking the time to change it to fixed isometric would be a waste, when it'd just please some people but annoy others.

[Karkarov]

 

Meanwhile we are two weeks from a "near final" beta.  It is too late in the game to do some massive overhaul of character creation.  You could argue that it is not a "near final" beta but I would remind you this is the same company that wouldn't let media outlets have control of the demo for fear of them showing or seeing something that was not polished enough for their liking.

Beta is exactly for us to give feedback on the game and propose changes. Plus changing the perpective of the 3D model to be exactly like ingame (Top down view, tiny) won't cost anything significant. At least have this as an option.

It is to give feedback on game mechanics and bugs yes.  Stuff like "You should rename Might to Power so it is less confusing because Might implies it has something to do with physical strength when in reality it effects all damage."  It is not to say "I don't like your character models you need to create better resources for them." 

 

You want to change the order in which character creation happens?  Maybe they will do that.  Personally I don't see the point, they have already said you can import portraits so you can make your character looks like whatever you want and you WILL be able to find a matching portrait even if you have to make it yourself.  Meanwhile you do realize the isometric character model is the character model you see in the inventory screen?  It is just not at an isometric angle and is slightly zoomed in.

[averagedog]

Yea, the character models may look a bit basic or "washed out", but it still has more detail than the low  spec models for Diablo 3.

 

I am far from a #PCMASTERRACE60FPS guy and have never had a gaming rig that could show me the #GLORIOUS60FPSREVOLUTION standards that Totalbiscuit raves about like a mad lunatic. But, I enjoy the mechanics and the story of a game, much more than the graphics. Sure it helps to immerse myself in the world the game devs created, but when it really comes down to it. I am the one that personally needs to "imagine" to make the experience an experience to enjoy.

[Malekith]

 

 It is just not at an isometric angle and is slightly zoomed in.

And here is the problem i and some others have with it. It simply looks bad from that angle and it sticks out since the rest of the game looks gorgeous.

[Lephys]

I want either a picture with painted slots, or a fixed isometric view. Allowind the camera to move around won't fix the problem, which is that the 3D model looks like **** when zoomed in

Not that you're not allowed to dislike it, but here's my question:

 

If PoE's 3D models look like crap, then what have all the games from the past 20 years looked like this whole time?

 

Is the dividing line between crap and splendor at a fixed point, or is it tethered to the maximum graphical capabilities of the year, always dragging behind it at a fixed distance? Once they perfect virtual reality games, and everything just looks real because the graphics are just signals sent through our neural network to our brain to be interpreted as images, will everything below Crysis 2 look like crap?

[Malekith]

 

I want either a picture with painted slots, or a fixed isometric view. Allowind the camera to move around won't fix the problem, which is that the 3D model looks like **** when zoomed in

Not that you're not allowed to dislike it, but here's my question:

 

If PoE's 3D models look like crap, then what have all the games from the past 20 years looked like this whole time?

 

The 3D ones? Pure crap. The 2D ones? Pretty good actualy. They aged well, and i honestly consider IE games (with High resolution mods in the case of PS:T and BG1) better looking than any game Obsidian, Bioware or Bethesda have ever made untli now.

I prefer the way PoE looks over something like the Witcher 3, even though the latter is more advanced graphicaly. My problem with the zoomed in model is that looks way worse than the rest of the game, which i find jarring. And judging by this thread and comments in various forums, i'm not the only one. If it's something so noticable, and can be fixed at low cost, why not offer the option to change it?

[Lephys]

Fair enough. I guess my brain just doesn't involuntarily spare enough resources while I'm playing such a game to even take the time to scrutinize the models like that. Unless they're just REALLY bad.

 

I mean, the early-beta Wasteland 2 models were pretty primitive. Even then, though, yeah, when I was staring at them in character creation, I thought "Whoa... I kind of expected them to look better than this. They're a bit blocky and undetailed." But, once I started playing the game, I never just passively "noticed" their primitiveness, and my gameplay wasn't hindered in the slightest. They were good-looking enough for me to treat them as people-entities, and understand how they move about, and what weapons they're firing, etc.

 

The current PoE ones already look oodles better than that. I guess I just don't see the threshold as being so specific. Could they look better? Sure. My dinner could be more gourmet. But, if it's tasty, I don't vomit it up and demand a different dinner in outrage simply because it only hit 600/1000 instead of 700/1000 on the tasty-o-meter.

 

I guess that's what it feels like you're doing. You, and anyone else who describes these models as looking like "****." Instead of "I'd prefer that they looked better," it's as if there's some horrendous, objective dilemma here, like... "The character models are invisible! I COULD play the game, but I refuse, 'cause I can't even see where my people are!" Like it's something that BEGS to be "fixed." I don't get that.

[Silent Winter]

And judging by this thread and comments in various forums, i'm not the only one. If it's something so noticable, and can be fixed at low cost, why not offer the option to change it?

 

And judging by this thread and comments in various forums, I'm not the only one who disagrees with you.  So why 'fix' something that isn't broken?

I honestly think the models are looking great.

[Karkarov]

 

If PoE's 3D models look like crap, then what have all the games from the past 20 years looked like this whole time?

The 3D ones? Pure crap. The 2D ones? Pretty good actualy. They aged well, and i honestly consider IE games (with High resolution mods in the case of PS:T and BG1) better looking than any game Obsidian, Bioware or Bethesda have ever made untli now.

..... What?  Are you honestly telling me this:

 

 

 

Looks better than this:

 

 

 

 

Seriously, I want to know.

[Sarex]

LoL, well when you cherry pick screenshots you can even make a turd shine. Also what mods were used in the second screen shot?

Edited August 6, 2014 by Sarex

[Malekith]

  

 

and this

 

 

and this

 

 

 

are all looking worse than

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if you want touched up as your screenshot was, this

 

[Karkarov]

LoL, well when you cherry pick screenshots you can even make a turd shine. Also what mods were used in the second screen shot?

Let me think.  That effect actual graphics?  Three maybe four, only because no one makes a mod to update all textures, it is always just racial skins, or just environment, or just equipment.  How many mods were incorporated in making BG2:EE?

 

I was trying to be fair before though.  Time to take the gloves off now.  How about this modern 3d game?  How many mods is it running?  Zero.

 

 

 

Does that look worse than BG2 with mods?  Also if you think I am "cherry picking" all I did was search Witcher 3 and take the third image google found.  Also Maelkith did you do a search for ME3 boring hallway picture?

Edited August 6, 2014 by Karkarov

[Archaven]

To be very honest, the visuals is really a big letdown to me. I dont dare to voice myself but i'm glad someone brought this up. BG or BG 2 Enhanced Edition looks far more appealing to me surprisingly. The first impression that the visuals are VERY dated. No it's not because of the video, i've seen the one that is Full HD and it's just bad. Of course it's just my opinion. But my thoughts were the whole reason to go full 2D was it's going to have very beautiful visuals not plain dated.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Archaven