Experience Point Mechanics - Fighting Enemies

[Tartantyco]

 

I don't have waste space quoting you to respond to you, Stun. See?

But you quoted someone else, responded to them, then attributed their words to me. Because you're blind.

 

No, I quoted Volourn's post and replied to it, then in another paragraph I specifically named you to make it obvious that with my following comment I was no longer referring to him. It seems you've resigned yourself to the former category.

[Volourn]

"Do tell me how my logic sucks, Volourn."

 

Let me try a different over exaggerated switcheroo on you.

 

Say, instead of beetles it was a dragon on the road. Same scenario. Not tied to any quests or objective or npc telling you to do it. Just hanging around the road, instantly hostile, do you think it should give xp for  'beating it' or be treated like the beetles are? Just random trash mobs with no real purpose.

[Tartantyco]

"Do tell me how my logic sucks, Volourn."

 

Let me try a different over exaggerated switcheroo on you.

 

Say, instead of beetles it was a dragon on the road. Same scenario. Not tied to any quests or objective or npc telling you to do it. Just hanging around the road, instantly hostile, do you think it should give xp for  'beating it' or be treated like the beetles are? Just random trash mobs with no real purpose.

 

Either the devs give you XP for it or they don't.

[Volourn]

Ahh... The truth comes out. You are blindly faithful to the devs  ie. a fanboy. Whatever way they do it is the right way. Okay then.

[Tartantyco]

Ahh... The truth comes out. You are blindly faithful to the devs  ie. a fanboy. Whatever way they do it is the right way. Okay then.

 

No, I simply assume that the devs know better than me when and where to place XP. Especially considering I haven't even played the game yet. I doubt they're going to randomly place dragons on the roads, though.

[Stun]

And I dismiss  Stun because of posts like this, which is what I was referring to.

By all means, dismiss any post that directly addresses your points one by one. And then proceed to call its writer a troll. Excellent debating tactic.

[Volourn]

"No, I simply assume that the devs know better than me when and where to place XP"
 

L0L In my experience of playing games, the devs almost always don't know better than me. I may be a loser but when it comes to RPGs I know my ****.

 

I guess you believe Arcanum's way of handling xp was awesome since the devs decided to do it, right? Answer carefully. And, let's not forgte that Obsidian has also used and likely will again use xp for kills in their games. You still think they know better than you?

 

Why hide behind the devs? The devs are not always right. Shocking, I know.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Volourn

[Zansatsu]

Ya this argument that the infinity engine games were broken does not compute. They were incredibly fun, classic, and the reason we are all here. If they were as bad and broken as you keep claim (I don't concede that) they wouldn't make everyone's list for top RPGs of all time.

[Tartantyco]

 

And I dismiss  Stun because of posts like this, which is what I was referring to.

By all means, dismiss any post that directly addresses your points one by one. And then proceed to call its writer a troll. Excellent debating tactic.

 

You really don't get to criticize my debating technique. You just repeated the same tired argument that's been countered several times already in your post. That's not directly addressing anything.

 

Ya this argument that the infinity engine games were broken does not compute

 

 

Literally nobody has argued that. What has been argued is that individual systems were broken or poorly implemented, and that putting in those same systems despite there being better alternatives that do not alter the IE feel is pure nonsense.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Tartantyco

[Zansatsu]

If anything they got more right than most RPGs can hope to.

[Immortalis]

 

(Also, if combat is fun, then it does have a point, and it is rewarding)

Not necessarily. For example, I find it Fun to respond to your silly posts. But it's still pointless...

 

 

Bazinga!

[Volourn]

"What has been argued is that individual systems were broken or poorly implemented,"
 

But, but, your argument was above is the devs are always right and they know more than you so why the change of heart all of asudden? You can't have it both ways. Either devs are perfect or they can make mistakes.

[Tartantyco]

"What has been argued is that individual systems were broken or poorly implemented,"

 

But, but, your argument was above is the devs are always right and they know more than you so why the change of heart all of asudden? You can't have it both ways. Either devs are perfect or they can make mistakes.

 

The PoE devs still have many opportunities to mess up. You creating fanboy fantasies is none of my concern. However, what you're quoting refers to the IE games, not PoE

 

So, yeah...

[Stun]

You really don't get to criticize my debating technique. You just repeated the same tired argument that's been countered several times already in your post. That's not directly addressing anything.

Nope. The post you just linked us to made a very succinct (and separate) point about the mega-dungeon. And while you've yet to address that in any way other than "OMG! STUPID! Dungeons should never be about combat! They should be about objectively questing to find the stairs down!", it doesn't change the overall point many people here are making, which you haven't addressed or countered in any reasonable or logical way: Kill XP can easily, and properly exist in any system that places equal focus on varied Objectives. Edited August 18, 2014 by Stun

[BrokenMask]

Why can't this thread be locked? Nobody says anything new and it has gotten to the point where people insult each other and when someone wisely quits other side is like "HAHAH, I'M WINNER FOR TIRING OUT THE OPPOSITION THROUGH BULLCRAP"

 

This conversation is fricking cyclical, One side says x other side says y, the first side replies with z, other side replies with b, first side replies with x, other side replies with y, etc this conversation isn't fricking productive when everyone keeps saying same thing over and over and acts incredibly smug about it

 

Everyone in this thread is either strawmanning each other, ignoring their arguments in favor of "I'm right" or making really illogical arguments. Dang it, today(in my timezone at least, though they probably wait until its 12 AM in america or something... Stupid America centric timezones, I don't want to wait until 20:00 to get my beta key) is the day when beta is released so at least try it out first before continuing this discussion.

 

AND everyone keeps putting words into each other mouth and appears to have really bad reading comprehension problems... This thread gives me headache, but its like watching a trainwreck...

Edited August 18, 2014 by BrokenMask

[Ganrich]

Why can't this thread be locked? Nobody says anything new and it has gotten to the point where people insult each other and when someone wisely quits other side is like "HAHAH, I'M WINNER FOR TIRING OUT THE OPPOSITION THROUGH BULLCRAP"

 

This conversation is fricking cyclical, One side says x other side says y, the first side replies with z, other side replies with b, first side replies with x, other side replies with y, etc this conversation isn't fricking productive when everyone keeps saying same thing over and over and acts incredibly smug about it

 

Everyone in this thread is either strawmanning each other, ignoring their arguments in favor of "I'm right" or making really illogical arguments. Dang it, today(in my timezone at least, though they probably wait until its 12 AM in america or something... Stupid America centric timezones, I don't want to wait until 20:00 to get my beta key) is the day when beta is released so at least try it out first before continuing this discussion.

 

AND everyone keeps putting words into each other mouth and appears to have really bad reading comprehension problems... This thread gives me headache, but its like watching a trainwreck...

I have backed off for now for two reasons you have posted here. 

 

1)  It is too hostile in here to have any kind of honest discussion.

2)  It is the calm before the Beta storm, and nothing new can be said until we all get a taste of it. 

[Volourn]

"hy can't this thread be locked? Nobody says anything new and it has gotten to the point where people insult each other and when someone wisely quits other side is like "HAHAH, I'M WINNER FOR TIRING OUT THE OPPOSITION THROUGH BULLCRAP"

 

This conversation is fricking cyclical, One side says x other side says y, the first side replies with z, other side replies with b, first side replies with x, other side replies with y, etc this conversation isn't fricking productive when everyone keeps saying same thing over and over and acts incredibly smug about it

 

Everyone in this thread is either strawmanning each other, ignoring their arguments in favor of "I'm right" or making really illogical arguments. Dang it, today(in my timezone at least, though they probably wait until its 12 AM in america or something... Stupid America centric timezones, I don't want to wait until 20:00 to get my beta key) is the day when beta is released so at least try it out first before continuing this discussion.

 

AND everyone keeps putting words into each other mouth and appears to have really bad reading comprehension problems... This thread gives me headache, but its like watching a trainwreck..."

 

Why are you trying to ruin our fun by being so insulting and mean to both sides? Nobody was being hurt until you showed your immature face. I mean, at least the rest of us were discussing the topic. You only posted to attack others. That's it. Go troll the Lollipop Guild and let us Hardcore Gamers discuss serious game issues.

 

Thank you very much, good sir.

[BrokenMask]

Why are you trying to ruin our fun by being so insulting and mean to both sides? Nobody was being hurt until you showed your immature face. I mean, at least the rest of us were discussing the topic. You only posted to attack others. That's it. Go troll the Lollipop Guild and let us Hardcore Gamers discuss serious game issues.

 

Thank you very much, good sir.

 

<_< Wow, you REALLY are a troll ._.;

 

 

I have backed off for now for two reasons you have posted here. 

 

1)  It is too hostile in here to have any kind of honest discussion.

2)  It is the calm before the Beta storm, and nothing new can be said until we all get a taste of it. 

 

 

Yeah, you are smart for doing that. Plus apparently this thread does actually have trolling in it

[Volourn]

"<_< Wow, you REALLY are a troll ._.;"
 

Troll? You are the one who posted in this thread just to attack others.  Your entire post was a personal and irect attack on everyone who POSTED ON TOPIC. If you aren't gonna participate in the topic go post in another thread but nooooooooooooo attack everyone and call them names. LMAO Good job.

 

BACK ON TOPIC: XP is Good. Period.

[BrokenMask]

 

Troll? You are the one who posted in this thread just to attack others.  Your entire post was a personal and irect attack on everyone who POSTED ON TOPIC. If you aren't gonna participate in the topic go post in another thread but nooooooooooooo attack everyone and call them names. LMAO Good job.

 

BACK ON TOPIC: XP is Good. Period.

 

You are the one using "LMAO" or "O RLY" and using ridiculous insults like "immature face" while calling yourself "Hardcore Gamer". And when PrimeJunta was like "**** this, I'm outta here", you took time to insult him <_<

 

Just saying, that besides being a troll, you aren't exactly showing the most mature behavior here.

 

And honestly, while I have this weird fascination with trying to make sense of most volatile discussion and trying to calm them down really badly(I suck at calming people down), I draw my line when I spot an actual troll, so I think I'm going to return next time after the beta is released Bye, have fun with whatever you guys are doing, see you later!

[Volourn]

We will!  Hardcore discussions about hardcore issues in hardcore games is what this thread is about. Not whetehr or not you like someone or not. Also, if you hate me and this thread why not post in other threads like that romance one. It seems up your alley!

 

I'm opinionated. Not a troll. That be you.

 

Taking the time to post in a thread "You are all dumbdumbs for posting in this thread. L0L peace out, homies." is 100% trolling.

 

BACK ON TOPIC AGAIN: If a dragon replaced those beetles would it worthy of xp or not?

[BrokenMask]

Came back to point out that I never actually called anyone here stupid nor did I say I hate anyone in this thread I'm really bad at avoiding troll bait it seems. That makes me pretty stupid unfortunately

 

And I like how "worthy of exp" sounds like its some kind of measure. Since the objective exp system isn't about which tasks are "worth" the exp. Its more about game designer having more precise control over player's level since they can't level grind so max level player can have at any encounter is known by the designer.
 

Eh, I have nothing to say on romance. I think as concept it as potential, but most of the time its just done horribly so unless writer has good idea, better just ignore it.

 

Anyway, yeah, I'll try to not take any more trollbait from you, so if you would be nice and help me, please don't try to troll me by insulting me to get me reply further, okay? I know trolls don't really play nice, but hey, nothing preventing me from asking nicely

[Volourn]

"And I like how "worthy of exp" sounds like its some kind of measure. Since the objective exp system isn't about which tasks are "worth" the exp. Its more about game designer having more precise control over player's level since they can't level grind so max level player can have at any encounter is known by the designer."

 

So why give out xp at all? Just have the designer give you levels whenever it suits their purpose.  Start of game = level 1 , ch2 = level 5, ch 3 = level 9, and ch 4 = level 12. No need for xp.
 

[BrokenMask]

Hey, if you ask from me, I don't think all RPG types necessarily need levels at all xP But in this type of RPG? Well, that'd be boring, it means that ALL enemy threats in one chapter would have to be balanced for exact same level and abilities characters have at that level. And since you can't become stronger during the chapter, you will be using same skills for whole chapter. Doesn't sound like very good pacing. I suppose it could be done if chapters are really short, but yeah, in game like this that is supposed to be lengthy, that doesn't sound very exciting. Besides, everyone here probably likes the feeling of "Yes, more exp, I have soon progressed enough to level up"

 

I personally like lack of enemy exp since it means game doesn't enforce the feeling that I HAVE to kill the enemies, or otherwise I become too weak. So if I do want to kill everything, its because I chose to and not because game mechanics forced me to.

 

Now on hypothetical "Sneak past enemies to get exp", well, okay, let's say you sneak past the beetles and get exp on other side of the field. Should you also get exp if you instead go around the beetles without ever getting close to them? Like, if there are two roads that lead to place you want to get to, one of them has beetles and one of them has nothing on it. Should you also get exp for choosing the road that has nothing in it despite the fact that isn't challenge at all?

 

I guess you could argue that you get exp for being smart and avoiding the risk, but... Yeah, I'm pretty sure everyone thinks that'd be too easy. So if you only get exp for choosing the road with beetles and either fighting them or sneaking past them, then the game is telling you "Don't choose the road with nothing, since you don't get any exp at all"

 

Oops, I wasn't supposed to come back before beta release ^^; Anyway, thank you for not insulting me, I'll try to keep my break until beta release... I'll go to play something to distract me from Internet, but yeah, let's continue this debate later, feel free to reply but I'll try avoid replying until I have played the beta

Edited August 18, 2014 by BrokenMask

[Volourn]

"Now on hypothetical "Sneak past enemies to get exp", well, okay, let's say you sneak past the beetles and get exp on other side of the field. Should you also get exp if you instead go around the beetles without ever getting close to them? Like, if there are two roads that lead to place you want to get to, one of them has beetles and one of them has nothing on it. Should you also get exp for choosing the road that has nothing in it despite the fact that isn't challenge at all?

 

I guess you could argue that you get exp for being smart and avoiding the risk, but... Yeah, I'm pretty sure everyone thinks that'd be too easy. So if you only get exp for choosing the road with beetles and either fighting them or sneaking past them, then the game is telling you "Don't choose the road with nothing, since you don't get any exp at all""

 

I don't believe in everything should be balanced equally. Soemtimes combat method should be rewarded more; sometimes tlaking should, and sometimes sneaking. ie. If you are asked to break into a museum and steal some exhibit without killing the guards and you do you should get less xp. XP reward is about succeeding and there should/could be different levels of 'success' hence different rewards. If  you are hired by the king to get rid of the dragon who is terorrizing the land and you turn around and make a deal with the dragon who agrees not to on a mass murder spree IF the king agrees to give up a virgin once a month the king isn't gonna be as satisifed if you just outright kill the beast. Even 'sacring' the dragon away shouldn't be as beneficial as the king could argue that it could always come back when you leave. Hence more experience for killing it. Etc., etc.