The Official Romance Thread

[ShadySands]

One night stands aren't romances though, just consensual one-time sex. Can you imagine having that with a party member? Obsidian would have their hands full with awkward dialogue choices for the remainder of the adventure. In witcher, these worked, but were of course as mundane and superficial as they can get - and deprived the central plot romance from having any sort of weight.

 

I agree that one-night stands can evolve into something in real life, but in a fantasy game that has them as a subplot at that? I don't think it's plausible.

The point was more that there doesn't have to be an epic courtship or game spanning buildup that ends in fade to black diaper sex. Sometimes people just click for whatever reason.

 

As far as plausibility, I guess it would have to depend on the story but on it's own I see no reason why a casual relationship turning into something more serious can't be a valid "Romance" subplot

 

You've made me give this more thought than I ever intended to because "Romance" in games isn't something I really care much about, just those points I kept seeing pop up. So now I guess a duel is in order. Pistols at noon? Swords at sunset? I'll let you know now that I'll very likely be late so please feel free to start without me

[BruceVC]

No means no.

 

Wowzers dude that was quick, do you keep website links in your favourites folder for your browser for exactly this moment so that you can destroy someone's dreams and aspirations

[Infiltrator_SF]

 

One night stands aren't romances though, just consensual one-time sex. Can you imagine having that with a party member? Obsidian would have their hands full with awkward dialogue choices for the remainder of the adventure. In witcher, these worked, but were of course as mundane and superficial as they can get - and deprived the central plot romance from having any sort of weight.

 

I agree that one-night stands can evolve into something in real life, but in a fantasy game that has them as a subplot at that? I don't think it's plausible.

The point was more that there doesn't have to be an epic courtship or game spanning buildup that ends in fade to black diaper sex. Sometimes people just click for whatever reason.

 

As far as plausibility, I guess it would have to depend on the story but on it's own I see no reason why a casual relationship turning into something more serious can't be a valid "Romance" subplot

 

You've made me give this more thought than I ever intended to because "Romance" in games isn't something I really care much about, just those points I kept seeing pop up. So now I guess a duel is in order. Pistols at noon? Swords at sunset? I'll let you know now that I'll very likely be late so please feel free to start without me

 

Oh I fully agree that there doesn't have to be an old school knight and princess type of romance, but let's face it, from a practical point of view, if you had sex with someone first and then had the whole adventure in front of you, they'd have a ton of material to rewrite, because the whole interaction with that character (not to mention potentially other party members) would be COMPLETELY different, as opposed to gradually building up, which is far more practical from a writing point of view, and, in my opinion, plausible for the setting/party interaction.

 

I don't care much about romances in games because I've found them to be generally very bad and/or awkward, but I accept your duel and promptly slap you with my glove.

[Nonek]

I'm personally fine with strumpets, camp followers, bawdy houses and such as a natural part of the world, stress relief for both genders if you will. However I wouldn't define these as romance, just another transaction, perhaps with a resulting infection.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

So in your typical RPG adventure where you have this party of people trying to save the world or facing some diabolical and powerful demigod where everyday could be there last why wouldn't Romance naturally develop? Especially if people are attracted to each other?

 

This to me is one of the obvious reason to include Romance from a realism perspective.

 

 

So you're for the 'lets have sex now as this might be our last day living' type of cliché. lol. And that's all it is. A cliché. No thanks. 

[BruceVC]

 

 

So in your typical RPG adventure where you have this party of people trying to save the world or facing some diabolical and powerful demigod where everyday could be there last why wouldn't Romance naturally develop? Especially if people are attracted to each other?

 

This to me is one of the obvious reason to include Romance from a realism perspective.

 

 

So you're for the 'lets have sex now as this might be our last day living' type of cliché. lol. And that's all it is. A cliché. No thanks. 

 

 

Well this is one part of a Romance arc. Having sex with party members on an epic journey is not unreasonable considering the bonds that would be formed around points like the fact that party members are prepared to die for you, have faced death with you, you have an emotional connection with them and you are attracted to them. In fact I would argue that to suggest there wouldn't be a physical connection is unrealistic? And you know me Hiro. I'm all about realism, where possible, when it comes to a RPG

[BruceVC]

I'm personally fine with strumpets, camp followers, bawdy houses and such as a natural part of the world, stress relief for both genders if you will. However I wouldn't define these as romance, just another transaction, perhaps with a resulting infection.

 

STD would always be a concern due to licentious behaviour but this is mitigated by the fact that magic can basically be used to heal any ailment....so no need to worry Nonek

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Well this is one part of a Romance arc. Having sex with party members on an epic journey is not unreasonable considering the bonds that would be formed around points like the fact that party members are prepared to die for you, have faced death with you, you have an emotional connection with them and you are attracted to them. In fact I would argue that to suggest there wouldn't be a physical connection is unrealistic? And you know me Hiro. I'm all about realism, where possible, when it comes to a RPG

 

 

Is that you David Gaider?

[Nonek]

The characters might well not be attracted to the protagonist however, or they might just see him as a friend or simply an employer. It's totally unrealistic to believe that everybody will automatically be attracted to the protagonist, or that they have an emotional connection, they may risk their life and travel together but be professional and reserved in their attitude. This automatic attraction is a sign of the distasteful pandering and blatant ego stroking that needs to be eradicated from rpgs, especially if npc's are to have some dignity and self worth.

 

@Bruce: There is very little magical healing in Poe, so STD's will probably be lethal in the long term, especially stealth killers like syphillis.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

The characters might well not be attracted to the protagonist however, or they might just see him as a friend or simply an employer. It's totally unrealistic to believe that everybody will automatically be attracted to the protagonist, or that they have an emotional connection, they may risk their life and travel together but be professional and reserved in their attitude. This automatic attraction is a sign of the distasteful pandering and blatant ego stroking that needs to be eradicated from rpgs, especially if npc's are to have some dignity and self worth.

 

@Bruce: There is very little magical healing in Poe, so STD's will probably be lethal in the long term, especially stealth killers like syphillis.

 

I don't think anyone has ever said or suggested that every single party member will be romantically attracted to the main character. All I'm saying is that adversity can bring people closer and its not unrealistic to suggest this won't necessarily lead to a natural Romance

 

Are you sure that there is no healing magic in the PoE world, if so then yes one would have to be cautious around inordinate sexual behaviour

[Nonek]

 

The characters might well not be attracted to the protagonist however, or they might just see him as a friend or simply an employer. It's totally unrealistic to believe that everybody will automatically be attracted to the protagonist, or that they have an emotional connection, they may risk their life and travel together but be professional and reserved in their attitude. This automatic attraction is a sign of the distasteful pandering and blatant ego stroking that needs to be eradicated from rpgs, especially if npc's are to have some dignity and self worth.

 

@Bruce: There is very little magical healing in Poe, so STD's will probably be lethal in the long term, especially stealth killers like syphillis.

 

I don't think anyone has ever said or suggested that every single party member will be romantically attracted to the main character. All I'm saying is that adversity can bring people closer and its not unrealistic to suggest this won't necessarily lead to a natural Romance

 

Are you sure that there is no healing magic in the PoE world, if so then yes one would have to be cautious around inordinate sexual behaviour

 

 

And it's also perfectly natural to not be attracted to somebody whom you are travelling with.

 

Re-read what I said Bruce, very little is the exact wording, healthcare is extremely limited and there is very little heal healing magic from what Mr Sawyer says. I very much doubt that such afflictions as Syphillis can be detected at all, even after death.

[Stun]

In fact I would argue that to suggest there wouldn't be a physical connection is unrealistic? And you know me Hiro. I'm all about realism, where possible, when it comes to a RPG

Realism? Give me a break. If there's anything your typical RPG romance lacks, it's realism.

 

Did you know that in BG2, a Human male with a charisma of 3 can successfully romance any of the female love interests? That is, by definition, unrealistic. Someone with a charisma of 3 is not only repulsive to the eyes, but he/she completely lacks social skills. Realistically, it is an impossibility for a character with a charisma of 3 to be interacting, attracting, and building up enough interest to form a romantic bond with anyone. Yet BG2 takes it even further. Viconia, Jaheira, and Aerie will not only fall in love with you, but if you have all three in your party, they will viciously compete for your attention, as if you were Justin Beiber.

 

No. Your best bet is to argue that either 1) You like these romances despite their unrealistic nature or 2) You like these romances because they're fantastically unrealistic.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Stun

[Endrosz]

Before there was soft porn in computer games, there was soft porn in books and illustrations, then movies. Games are just catching up, and BioWare is the spearhead.
 
Fresh post on Penny Arcade from Gabe (Mike Krahulik), inserted here for relevancy and sheer entertainment value. Well worth the time! Note: Kara is his wife, though obvious from the context.

 

Fluency

I don’t remember where I saw the book Fluency recommended. I took a look at it though and it met all my book purchasing criteria. That is to say it had a spaceship on the cover (extra points if that spaceship is the Millenium Falcon). So I bought it and I was actually really digging it. A massive alien spaceship floating in space. A team of astronauts sent to investigate it. A strange alien presence. I was even okay with two of the astronauts falling in love. Then all of a sudden “She pulled ineffectually at the filmy tunic that was keeping his skin from her.”

I don’t read books like this. I don’t consider myself a prude I just honestly don’t find this erotic **** very interesting in my books. I’m not a writer so I don’t always know when writing is bad. Tycho will often tell me that something I am reading is bad but I usually can’t tell. In this case, even I could tell this wasn’t great. I read bits of Fluency to Kara and she laughed out loud. I read some of it to Tycho and he removed his glasses then closed his eyes and rubbed the bridge of his nose. It seemed like the words were physically hurting him.

“His caress was gentle, insistent and, precisely targeted for maximum impact. Leave it to the engineer to know how things worked.”

I think that line actually took five years of Tycho’s life.

I thought maybe it would be over quickly but it just kept going. I really wanted to get back to aliens and this strange ship but they just kept ****ing. Pretty soon “His fingers slipped into her slippery wetness, his tongue rasping over a nipple.” This is a rasp:

 

Either this guy has a tongue like a cat or I am doing something wrong. Anyway, I kept going thinking it had to be over soon. I wasn’t ready to give up yet. Then “She arched, crying out, heedless to who might hear, as she shuddered with potent, chaotic spasms.”

And that’s it, I’m out.

My Kindle tells me this scene takes place approximately 70% though the book. So I’m going to miss out on the last 30% which I can only assume consists of them ****ing in various rooms of this abandoned alien space ship. Maybe they **** in microgravity at some point?

If you’re looking for a great book about strange alien spaceships and the astronauts sent to investigate them I would recommend avoiding Fluency and check out Troika by Alastair Reynolds instead. It’s the book I read just before Fluency and at no point did anyone “rock to meet each thrust.”

-Gabe out

[BruceVC]

 

 

The characters might well not be attracted to the protagonist however, or they might just see him as a friend or simply an employer. It's totally unrealistic to believe that everybody will automatically be attracted to the protagonist, or that they have an emotional connection, they may risk their life and travel together but be professional and reserved in their attitude. This automatic attraction is a sign of the distasteful pandering and blatant ego stroking that needs to be eradicated from rpgs, especially if npc's are to have some dignity and self worth.

 

@Bruce: There is very little magical healing in Poe, so STD's will probably be lethal in the long term, especially stealth killers like syphillis.

 

I don't think anyone has ever said or suggested that every single party member will be romantically attracted to the main character. All I'm saying is that adversity can bring people closer and its not unrealistic to suggest this won't necessarily lead to a natural Romance

 

Are you sure that there is no healing magic in the PoE world, if so then yes one would have to be cautious around inordinate sexual behaviour

 

 

And it's also perfectly natural to not be attracted to somebody whom you are travelling with.

 

 

 

 

Yes Nonek but if you are attracted to a NPC and vice versa and you are living with the reality that each day may be your last during some epic quest where the fate of the entire world possibly rests on your shoulders and you spend many nights around a campfire discussing your own mortality and the vicissitudes of life would you concede that Romance is going to develop...or at least be very likely?

[Endrosz]

Oh by the way: Soft porn books are called "romance books", for obvious reasons. The mother of a friend of mine made a living translating them from English. Not surprisingly, soft porn in computer games is also called "romance". Tradition and all.

[Nonek]

Not if they are not attracted to you, I suppose you can force yourself upon them Bruce if that's your thing, but certainly i'd not pursue or want such options. Hopefully we will not be involved in a childish save the entire world quest, ala Bioware, as Obsidian are usually much better than that. Personally i'd be more apt in such a situation to focus on my objectives and making sure I stay alive and succeed, or to shrug off this destiny that mandates I alone can save the world, and if in need of stress relief simply peruse a quality knocking shop.

[Doppelschwert]

I am the eternal optimist, what if Obsidian is actually going to include Romance in PoE and they just didn't want to spoil the excitement? Like the  fact we know nothing about the story of PoE?

 

 

Don't forget the spaceship battles and the cameo of Vin Diesel. Given what we know of the setting, the only plausible reason why they haven't been confirmed is because they are integral to the story, which we are supposed to know nothing about.

 

BTW, Vin Diesel played DnD for over 20 years.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Doppelschwert

[Hiro Protagonist II]

In fact I would argue that to suggest there wouldn't be a physical connection is unrealistic? And you know me Hiro. I'm all about realism, where possible, when it comes to a RPG

 

One of the problems with crpgs and romances, especially with romance with aliens is the anthropomorphism and sexualisation of those aliens. This is not realism at all. We have no idea what an alien would look like. Also, having sex with an alien would likely be just as repulsive for the alien as it is for you, unless you like sick and twisted sex. But then that wouldn't go down well for the promancers if those aliens weren't made to have human characteristics would it?

 

If aliens like the ones below were in your party, would you feel attracted to them, romance them and have sex with them? Because these NPCs could be just as 'realistic' as any other type of NPC you come across in a game.

 

[BruceVC]

 

In fact I would argue that to suggest there wouldn't be a physical connection is unrealistic? And you know me Hiro. I'm all about realism, where possible, when it comes to a RPG

 

One of the problems with crpgs and romances, especially with romance with aliens is the anthropomorphism and sexualisation of those aliens. This is not realism at all. We have no idea what an alien would look like. Also, having sex with an alien would likely be just as repulsive for the alien as it is for you, unless you like sick and twisted sex. But then that wouldn't go down well for the promancers if those aliens weren't made to have human characteristics would it?

 

If aliens like the ones below were in your party, would you feel attracted to them, romance them and have sex with them? Because these NPCs could be just as 'realistic' as any other type of NPC you come across in a game.

 

 

 

Nope I don't find those aliens attractive at all, but what have aliens got to do with Romance in PoE?

[ashtonw]

 

 

 Viconia, Jaheira, and Aerie will not only fall in love with you, but if you have all three in your party, they will viciously compete for your attention, as if you were Justin Beiber.

 

Do you think Viconia, Jaheria, and Aerie would really fight over Justin Bieber

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

 Viconia, Jaheira, and Aerie will not only fall in love with you, but if you have all three in your party, they will viciously compete for your attention, as if you were Justin Beiber.

 

Do you think Viconia, Jaheria, and Aerie would really fight over Justin Bieber

 

 

They are fighting over the PC, despite the fact that their ideal partner is so radically different, a single PC could never be a good match for any two of them at the same time... so, one has to wonder about standards.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Nope I don't find those aliens attractive at all, but what have aliens got to do with Romance in PoE?

 

I was also talking about crpgs in general and the same principal applies to PoE.

 

Another race in PoE would be alien to you. We can only guess at the biological nature of the races in Eora. Perhaps Josh can enlighten us with his world building and inform the community if a Human and Orlan have the capacity to mate. Perhaps the Orlans have a different physiology underneath their clothes and humans can't have sex with them. If you're playing a human and you have an Orlan in your party, that Orlan would probably be alien to you in terms of sexual intercourse, if it is even possible. And the Orlan probably wouldn't want a human trying to have sex with them.

 

Romanceable NPCs are usually anthropomorphised and sexualised for the player even if the NPC isn't human. This is very common in crpgs. They always have 'human features' to try and make the player feel attracted to that NPC. That's not realism. If you were to try and make a game more 'realistic', you wouldn't always have the most attractive types of races in your party. That's just pandering to the player. You should have a cross section of those races from butt ugly to attractive. In D&D terms, the picture should reflect the Charisma of the NPC and their interactions in the game world, including the interactions between party members. I'd like to see NPCs reflect a cross section of their races and not the idealised and attractive.

 

You would have a deep friendship with your companions, you would care for them and they would for you. But romancing wouldn't come up. But the friendship is there. Deep and meaningful. There's even TV shows and movies that have this theme with the human and some other race working together.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[ashtonw]

It's the Bhaalspawn pheromones, it's impossible for elf priestesses to resist.

[Amentep]

The point was more that there doesn't have to be an epic courtship or game spanning buildup that ends in fade to black diaper sex. Sometimes people just click for whatever reason.

And that should be fine, IMO, as long as it makes sense with the NPC and the PC's choices. I think that's the key to understanding how the NPC and PC will interact.

 

Mind you I also think if the game allows the player to visit bars (or prostitutes) regularly the others should start recognizing you too (Norm!). But I admit that's a lot of consideration for minor parts of the game.

[BruceVC]

 

Nope I don't find those aliens attractive at all, but what have aliens got to do with Romance in PoE?

 

I was also talking about crpgs in general and the same principal applies to PoE.

 

Another race in PoE would be alien to you. We can only guess at the biological nature of the races in Eora. Perhaps Josh can enlighten us with his world building and inform the community if a Human and Orlan have the capacity to mate. Perhaps the Orlans have a different physiology underneath their clothes and humans can't have sex with them. If you're playing a human and you have an Orlan in your party, that Orlan would probably be alien to you in terms of sexual intercourse, if it is even possible. And the Orlan probably wouldn't want a human trying to have sex with them.

 

Romanceable NPCs are usually anthropomorphised and sexualised for the player even if the NPC isn't human. This is very common in crpgs. They always have 'human features' to try and make the player feel attracted to that NPC. That's not realism. If you were to try and make a game more 'realistic', you wouldn't always have the most attractive types of races in your party. That's just pandering to the player. You should have a cross section of those races from butt ugly to attractive. In D&D terms, the picture should reflect the Charisma of the NPC and their interactions in the game world, including the interactions between party members. I'd like to see NPCs reflect a cross section of their races and not the idealised and attractive.

 

You would have a deep friendship with your companions, you would care for them and they would for you. But romancing wouldn't come up. But the friendship is there. Deep and meaningful. There's even TV shows and movies that have this theme with the human and some other race working together.

 

 

Of course friendship should always exist amongst the party. But you and I have had this debate before where we agreed on what would be acceptable Romance options based on the physiology of a potential Romance partner and I explained the Romance interest is normally based on humanoid creature. So no centaurs, broodmothers, beholders or similar creatures as they aren't humanoid so the intimacy part of Romance would be illogical.

 

But dwarfs, elves, orcs, drow, fairies these are acceptable Romance options

 

Also the main reason I don't like those aliens is that they are ugly, that's the reality. I have nothing against aliens as we know from the ME games where  there are loads of attractive aliens. So this is more a questions of aesthetics when it comes to humanoid aliens and can you Romance them